Christian Atheists

[A Vestigial Mote]

I think maybe you guys missed my previous post in which I attempted to clear up the confusion generated by the conflation of what makes one a Christian, and what Christians do. These posts still seem to be suffering from that confusion, so let me repeat myself:

Either Jesus is one's personal savior, or He is not. That is the only thing that determines whether one is a Christian or one is not. I cannot imagine how one might consider Jesus to be their personal savior without a belief in God.

I suppose the criteria for "what makes one a Christian" (in terms of accepting Jesus as a personal savior) has been conflated with "what Christians do" (in terms of following or emulating Christ) in my posts, and I can see where that might have caused some confusion. Let me clear that up by agreeing that yes, an atheist could indeed act like a Christian, but I don't believe that an atheist could actually BE a Christian--so to that extent, an "atheist Christian" is an oxymoron.

But you were talking about what makes one "Christ-like." And the post you felt you needed to reiterate is completely irrelevant to that idea for one very specific reason: Jesus was not a Christian.

 

[Fool]

If you don't believe in a god I don't think you qualify.

there is atheism, agnosticism and gnosticism. i'm gnostic. i have knowledge. i don't have belief; which qualifies.

ironic? paradox?

you doubt? by all means.

heretical most definitely

 

[Axe Elf]

But you were talking about what makes one "Christ-like." And the post you felt you needed to reiterate is completely irrelevant to that idea for one very specific reason: Jesus was not a Christian.

I refer you again to my recently quoted post drawing a distinction between what makes one a Christian as opposed to what Christians do. The latter is applicable to being "Christ-like" (how one behaves) and the former is applicable to being a Christian (what one is). An atheist can act like a Christian (or like Christ, if you prefer), but an atheist cannot be a Christian. To that extent, a "Christian atheist" is an oxymoron.

 

[`mud]

I'm missing something here, but's not surprising.
Why can't an atheist believe in Jesus' thoughts and actions,
and also not believe in `God`, or any `gods`.
Catholics, maybe don't agree with that though, given the trinitarian thinking.
I think that Jesus wasn't `God`, he was a prophet as a sort, a teacher of sorts.
Soooo....one can believe in Jesus' thinking, and not believe in any `gods`.
I tried to say this before, didn't I ? Soooo... it still doesn't work, does it !

 

[A Vestigial Mote]

I refer you again to my recently quoted post drawing a distinction between what makes one a Christian as opposed to what Christians do. The latter is applicable to being "Christ-like" (how one behaves) and the former is applicable to being a Christian (what one is). An atheist can act like a Christian (or like Christ, if you prefer), but an atheist cannot be a Christian. To that extent, a "Christian atheist" is an oxymoron.

Which completely dodges the reply I originally gave to the quote of yours, reproduced here (line by line) for convenience:

"Christian atheist" seems like an oxymoron to me.

I'm actually with you on this point... it is an oxymoron.

An atheist doesn't believe in God.

True

A "Christian" seeks to be Christ-like.

Eh... some of them anyway.

Christ obviously believed in God.

I would say this is true by the stories, and if he existed, then it was very likely true in real life. So I'm with you all the way through this.

But this last is what I specifically drew attention to:

Hard to be Christ-like if you don't believe in God.

And I asked if you believe that belief in God is an attribute of Christ of paramount importance - one that would need to be emulated to qualify as "Christ-like", as your quote seems to imply. THIS is the question you dodged, but are now back-tracking on by stating in the top-most quote I quoted:

An atheist can act like a Christian (or like Christ, if you prefer), but an atheist cannot be a Christian.

And here again I am with you, and understand. But again - you specifically said it would be hard to be "Christ-like" without belief in God, because Christ believed in God. And as I stated... Christ also had a beard. Christ was also Jewish. Christ also had apostles. But you chose his belief in God as this very important qualifier. As if that was so very important, implying a person has to have that if they want to even start to be "Christ-like". And that is something I do not, at all, agree with.

If anything, Christ's belief in God was moot, and completely unimportant - for the simple reason that he was supposedly God's son, or even God himself, depending on the beliefs you choose to accept.;What was he going to do... not believe in HIMSELF? Christ's belief in God is not even worth mentioning. And here you are, pretending I am misunderstanding. It's you who don't want to incriminate yourself for posting with a "Hey you - here's yet another reason to believe in God!" agenda. Not wanting to admit to being caught using a sophomoric advertising/marketing ploy to try and "sell" your god a little harder.

 

[Axe Elf]

Which completely dodges the reply I originally gave to the quote of yours, reproduced here (line by line) for convenience:


I'm actually with you on this point... it is an oxymoron.


True


Eh... some of them anyway.


I would say this is true by the stories, and if he existed, then it was very likely true in real life. So I'm with you all the way through this.

But this last is what I specifically drew attention to:

And I asked if you believe that belief in God is an attribute of Christ of paramount importance - one that would need to be emulated to qualify as "Christ-like", as your quote seems to imply. THIS is the question you dodged, but are now back-tracking on by stating in the top-most quote I quoted:


And here again I am with you, and understand. But again - you specifically said it would be hard to be "Christ-like" without belief in God, because Christ believed in God. And as I stated... Christ also had a beard. Christ was also Jewish. Christ also had apostles. But you chose his belief in God as this very important qualifier. As if that was so very important, implying a person has to have that if they want to even start to be "Christ-like". And that is something I do not, at all, agree with.

If anything, Christ's belief in God was moot, and completely unimportant - for the simple reason that he was supposedly God's son, or even God himself, depending on the beliefs you choose to accept.;What was he going to do... not believe in HIMSELF? Christ's belief in God is not even worth mentioning. And here you are, pretending I am misunderstanding. It's you who don't want to incriminate yourself for posting with a "Hey you - here's yet another reason to believe in God!" agenda. Not wanting to admit to being caught using a sophomoric advertising/marketing ploy to try and "sell" your god a little harder.

You have done an excellent job of documenting the confusion that I acknowledged had arisen due to the conflation of "what makes one a Christian" with "what makes one Christ-like." You still seem to be missing the fact that I acknowledged this about three posts ago, though, so I'm not sure what godless sinner agenda you're trying to peddle here by painting my comment as a sophomoric marketing ploy to sell God.

(Yeah, I know, it felt weird when you tried to twist my comment into an agenda too.)

 

[A Vestigial Mote]

You have done an excellent job of documenting the confusion that I acknowledged had arisen due to the conflation of "what makes one a Christian" with "what makes one Christ-like." You still seem to be missing the fact that I acknowledged this about three posts ago, though, so I'm not sure what godless sinner agenda you're trying to peddle here by painting my comment as a sophomoric marketing ploy to sell God.

(Yeah, I know, it felt weird when you tried to twist my comment into an agenda too.)

Looking back, I do see where you back-pedaled out of your unsupportable statement that "It's hard to be Christ-like if you don't believe in God" with another poster. Way to go.

Forget everything else, if you would kindly do so, and answer one question, again, if you would be so kind, just for my own making of mental notes:

Do you believe that Christ's belief in his father/himself (aka "God") is an important thing to make note of?

P.S. Perhaps you are inclined to "feel weird" based on something I said, but I assure you there is no need to worry yourself. I honestly don't think your words could make me "feel weird" if you tried.

 

[Axe Elf]

Looking back, I do see where you back-pedaled out of your unsupportable statement that "It's hard to be Christ-like if you don't believe in God" with another poster. Way to go.

I applaud you on your ability to bring yourself up to speed on the conversation so far. Way to go.

Forget everything else, if you would kindly do so, and answer one question, again, if you would be so kind, just for my own making of mental notes:

Do you believe that Christ's belief in his father/himself (aka "God") is an important thing to make note of?

I would take note of it, yes.

P.S. Perhaps you are inclined to "feel weird" based on something I said, but I assure you there is no need to worry yourself. I honestly don't think your words could make me "feel weird" if you tried.

What if I said I wanted to tickle you after sharing a hot toddy?

My claim that "Christian atheist" is an oxymoron seems to have made you feel some kind of way. You might not call it "weird," but it has at least upset your status quo to the extent that you feel the need to take action to regain the stability you had before my comment. So if not "weird" per se, it caused an uncomfortable feeling that motivated action to reinstate comfort.

 

[A Vestigial Mote]

I applaud you on your ability to bring yourself up to speed on the conversation so far. Way to go.

Thanks, I find I can be pretty capable if I put my mind to it.

I would take note of it, yes.

Well dodged... again.

What if I said I wanted to tickle you after sharing a hot toddy?

I'd say "no thanks." Do you think that was difficult for me?

My claim that "Christian atheist" is an oxymoron seems to have made you feel some kind of way. You might not call it "weird," but it has at least upset your status quo to the extent that you feel the need to take action to regain the stability you had before my comment. So if not "weird" per se, it caused an uncomfortable feeling that motivated action to reinstate comfort.

You've obviously either not understood any of what I've said or any of the actual objections I raised, or you have only been reading highlights or what you want to read of my posts. The only thing I was guilty of was not reading other parts of a completely separate conversation you were having with someone else where you happened to rescind your position. So anyway... why don't we just call it quits? I'm obviously not getting anywhere with you, and you apparently don't like answering questions that make you uncomfortable.

 

[Axe Elf]

why don't we just call it quits?

Well, if we can't agree that "yes" is a pretty straight answer, then I guess you're going to have to drop your objection. I'm not sure why anyone would have a hard time understanding why "Christian atheist" is an oxymoron in the first place.

 

[`mud]

I think some people are mending a common tear here.
Maybe using different threads, or a dull needle.

 

[A Vestigial Mote]

Well, if we can't agree that "yes" is a pretty straight answer, then I guess you're going to have to drop your objection. I'm not sure why anyone would have a hard time understanding why "Christian atheist" is an oxymoron in the first place.

Again, proof that you didn't read/comprehend my posts, even as you accused me of the same. I admitted as much (agreeing that I do consider it an oxymoron also) several posts back. As you did for me, I'll just leave you to do the legwork if you care to go find it.

 

[Riders]

Do you know any christian atheists?


in fact i'm an atheist of many belief systems

i'm one basically. i follow the ethic of reciprocity; which obviously is found in many belief systems.

When I went to the Unity church I met many Atheists who believed in the inner Godself instead of a God.They listened to the Unity sermons which included the bible sometimes. But they only taught the bible on a level in which it could be applied to any belief system or lack of. so yea there are Atheists who follow Jesus there.