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Christian Atheism

ZenMonkey

St. James VII
I do see a contradiction. Why don't you say you're Christian?

The technical term atheists don't believe in deities. But you still believe in God/life. So you believe in a different view of god than most Christians but the Bible doesn't describe "what" god is.

You believe in God. Which you could say atheist of you go by the technical definition. I don't know if atheists can describe the god they don't believe in. So it's more laying with definitions

Terms .. like the term logos or Word like in John 1 ,,, You know, communication, divine utterance, language, expression, etc. Here in America there's a think we like to term ... freedom of speech. That's in direct relation to John 1 where in the begining was and God was and all things were ... and then on to the word became and dwelt among but some loved hiding from instead of that light ... and that seems to be what we have here today and yesterday and years before. I can secular terms, religious terms and it's still the same for me and backed by scripture, as in the bible, but then as I stated, some love darkness more than and pretty much hide themselves from that particular light. you know ... the way, the "truth' and the life ... you know ... LIFE what is true and the way for all who exist.
 

LuisDantas

Aura of atheification
Premium Member
That's the entire point. It's a religion that you can claim or not ... just like any other. Geesh, it's not like I'm saying hey you ... yes you ... come a little closer. I have something to say. Yes you .... I'm not pulling woll over your eyes either. You can come or not, but I do have something to say. You can read or not, but I'm gonna say it either way. You can agree or not. It doesn't matter either way. Just like everything else in life, aside from a few who think everyone needs to think like them.
Uh... it is not a religion as I understand it, and it does not have any obvious reason to be called either Christian nor Atheism.

Maybe you _do_ mean Secular Humanism?
 

ZenMonkey

St. James VII
I guess that would be changing the definition of Christian.

A Christian isn't just the one who acts out honoring life and truth (though great that you do) but also one who in the heart has believed to become a Christian. Much the same as God said about the circumcision. Not of the flesh but of the heart.

Of course, taking one scripture and making it a policy would not be quite correct:



Matthew 15:8 This people draweth nigh unto me with their mouth, and honoureth me with their lips; but their heart is far from me.

Then you also have to quote the whole of what Jesus said:

John 3:16-18 King James Version (KJV)
16 For God so loved the world, that he gave his only begotten Son, that whosoever believeth in him should not perish, but have everlasting life.17 For God sent not his Son into the world to condemn the world; but that the world through him might be saved.18 He that believeth on him is not condemned: but he that believeth not is condemned already, because he hath not believed in the name of the only begotten Son of God.

Not saying you are condemned for I am not the judge nor can I see your heart. But rather just simply showing that there is more scripture to it than just :16a


Which brings me to this point: What was Jesus about? What did he do? How was he a friend and are we being friends to him? Heart being far from me, honoring with lips, etc. Also, ask 10 Christians to be specific about their views separately, even those of same denomination ... I'm talking specifics like I'm doing and you'll find yourself with at least ten different views among them. Tell me, do you have a personal relationship with ... yourself? I mean are you true to you or do you deny you and how you're made to honor a view that opposes who you are and how you're made? I could say I like anchovies but I don't. I could say I hate having fun and laughing, but I don't. I could say I don't find certain things in life pleasurable and pleasing, but I do. I stand on my truth. It's better to never know than to know it then turn away after all and I would presume that has a lot to do with denying yourself an abundant life, which Jesus came to give. Yet .. so many condemn those who stand on their own truth and remain true to the truth they know and honor what Jesus came for simply by being who they are and remaining true to who they are.
 

ZenMonkey

St. James VII
Uh... it is not a religion as I understand it, and it does not have any obvious reason to be called either Christian nor Atheism.

Maybe you _do_ mean Secular Humanism?
No ... I mean Christian Atheism ... and I haven't registered yet, but I may. But you can pretend to know that it isn't a religion if you want to. It's a way of life, which pretty much makes it a religion. Life is an adventure, a journey of sorts .. some would say a journey of heart. I love me and life and most everyone else too. It's like a discovery of self amidst the confusion in life.
 

ZenMonkey

St. James VII
Caring, morality, comradeship etc

Its what christ taught and are the requirements of basic humanity. Without which civilisation could not have flourished laying the groundwork for various religions.


Super ego stuff? What it takes to help community thrive stuff? How about the division? Is it ok to divide ourselves from those who's morals differ from our own? I mean instead of trying force my way unto you is it ok to get in where I fit in ... so to speak, and you get in where you fit in too?
 

sun rise

The world is on fire
Premium Member
I guess because how I view God. God=Life or rather All there is, was, and will ever be.

It's interesting that you almost quote the Gloria Patri at least the Roman Rite Latin Version:
Glory to the Father, and to the Son, and to the Holy Spirit,
As it was in the beginning, and now, and ever shall be, world without end. Amen

And by saying God=Life you are to my ears affirming God's immanence. From the trinity perspective, you are affirming the Holy Spirit while denying the Father.

If I'm right the word 'atheism' does not capture your beliefs.
 

Kenny

Face to face with my Father
Premium Member
Which brings me to this point: What was Jesus about? What did he do? How was he a friend and are we being friends to him? Heart being far from me, honoring with lips, etc.

Ok... so now we are changing the subject. Does that mean that you agree that you can't be a Christian Atheist?

PS... I never said his heart was far from you or your heart towards his. I was talking about principles and in no way did I refer it to you.

What was Jesus about? Salvation and restoring relationship between man and God.
What did he do? Fulfilled all OT types and shadows and, by dying on the cross and resurrecting, opened the floodgates of Heave (so to speak)

Also, ask 10 Christians to be specific about their views separately, even those of same denomination ... I'm talking specifics like I'm doing and you'll find yourself with at least ten different views among them.

OK... ask 10 Christian on this forum

  1. Did Jesus die on the cross for mankind?
  2. Did He resurrect from the dead?
  3. Is He seated at the right hand of the Father?
  4. Is He coming again?
Ok... 4 questions (very specific) and see if it changes between denominations.

Tell me, do you have a personal relationship with ... yourself?

Surely!

I mean are you true to you or do you deny you and how you're made to honor a view that opposes who you are and how you're made? I could say I like anchovies but I don't. I could say I hate having fun and laughing, but I don't. I could say I don't find certain things in life pleasurable and pleasing, but I do.

Not sure exactly what you are asking for. I respect every spiritual self determining agent to have their views.

I stand on my truth. It's better to never know than to know it then turn away after all and I would presume that has a lot to do with denying yourself an abundant life, which Jesus came to give

Never said you didn't stand on your truth. Would you quote where I did?

Yet .. so many condemn those who stand on their own truth and remain true to the truth they know and honor what Jesus came for simply by being who they are and remaining true to who they are.

Yes... there are those who condemn. I'm of the flavor that it is God who is the ultimate judge. I believe I have scriptural support for my position.
 

Brickjectivity

Turned to Stone. Now I stretch daily.
Staff member
Premium Member
I guess because how I view God. God=Life or rather All there is, was, and will ever be. Beyond that, I like truth, and honesty. When you're honest guess what? You don't feel the need to hide from anything. Why would you? I'm how i am for a reason, you're how you are for a reason. I enjoy what I enjoy for a reason. You enjoy what you enjoy for a reason. That's true. It's also true that we enjoy what we enjoy. Why hide it?
That doesn't sound like perfect atheism to me but a non-anthropomorphic form of theism. You have combined two different levels of understanding of theos, scrambled your pizza into your spaghetti. So, Yes and No.

Let me put an idea across your bow. My idea is to ask yourself what you see in Christ which you feel should be applied in the world. Christianity is observance of the principles of God as revealed in Judaism and includes a common language and mythos with other Christians. It is not a loner religion but one which must be shared. You enter a shared dream, but you don't just stay there. You also don't just leave it without also taking a little something with you. I have heard a priest explain that as you approach the altar during the liturgy you enter heaven. This wording explains a lot. It explains our common prayer and many constructs in gospel stories. You go into Christ, and in Christ everything is true; and you work to make it also true in this other world. This fallen world which is under the authority of the rulers of darkness but which is being brought into new leadership. In Christ everyone loves everyone else, so you try to take that and make it real here as it is in heaven. At that point you have chosen to believe. You melt and become nothing but part of Christ to the degree that you are able in accordance with the measure of your faith, which may be small but still potent. You take your little scooper, and you scoop some of heaven and bring it here to transform this world. In Christ all are one, and this you try to take with you every time you leave heaven and return to earth.

Christians must all have a common story about a saviour and live in that story. What you must do is understand sacred space and choose whether you are going to enter that sacred space. There are those who will insist that, no, you must absolutely believe even when you leave the sacred space; but that clearly is not you. You're clearly someone who is practical, understands that not everybody can just be super Christian at every hour of the day. Not everyone accepts that, thus you find yourself trying to distinguish why you are drawn to Christ yet can't reconcile yourself with the extreme demands of those who accuse you of being a liar when you can't carry the entire world on your shoulders every day.
 

ZenMonkey

St. James VII
It's interesting that you almost quote the Gloria Patri at least the Roman Rite Latin Version:
Glory to the Father, and to the Son, and to the Holy Spirit,
As it was in the beginning, and now, and ever shall be, world without end. Amen

And by saying God=Life you are to my ears affirming God's immanence. From the trinity perspective, you are affirming the Holy Spirit while denying the Father.

If I'm right the word 'atheism' does not capture your beliefs.

I affirm life and all life entails ... if the father is part of life and is life then how can I be denying anything. Life = All (.) You can say I deny whatever you wish but you know as well as I know that you're being fictitious. Good/evil ... light/darkness, hot/cold, god/devil, pleasant/unpleasant ... It isn't difficult to see life and God in everything.
 

ZenMonkey

St. James VII
Ok... so now we are changing the subject. Does that mean that you agree that you can't be a Christian Atheist?

PS... I never said his heart was far from you or your heart towards his. I was talking about principles and in no way did I refer it to you.

What was Jesus about? Salvation and restoring relationship between man and God.
What did he do? Fulfilled all OT types and shadows and, by dying on the cross and resurrecting, opened the floodgates of Heave (so to speak)



OK... ask 10 Christian on this forum

  1. Did Jesus die on the cross for mankind?
  2. Did He resurrect from the dead?
  3. Is He seated at the right hand of the Father?
  4. Is He coming again?
Ok... 4 questions (very specific) and see if it changes between denominations.



Surely!



Not sure exactly what you are asking for. I respect every spiritual self determining agent to have their views.



Never said you didn't stand on your truth. Would you quote where I did?



Yes... there are those who condemn. I'm of the flavor that it is God who is the ultimate judge. I believe I have scriptural support for my position.
Ok... so now we are changing the subject. Does that mean that you agree that you can't be a Christian Atheist?

PS... I never said his heart was far from you or your heart towards his. I was talking about principles and in no way did I refer it to you.

What was Jesus about? Salvation and restoring relationship between man and God.
What did he do? Fulfilled all OT types and shadows and, by dying on the cross and resurrecting, opened the floodgates of Heave (so to speak)



OK... ask 10 Christian on this forum

  1. Did Jesus die on the cross for mankind?
  2. Did He resurrect from the dead?
  3. Is He seated at the right hand of the Father?
  4. Is He coming again?
Ok... 4 questions (very specific) and see if it changes between denominations.



Surely!



Not sure exactly what you are asking for. I respect every spiritual self determining agent to have their views.



Never said you didn't stand on your truth. Would you quote where I did?



Yes... there are those who condemn. I'm of the flavor that it is God who is the ultimate judge. I believe I have scriptural support for my position.


As he was ... so are we in the world. Sons/daughters who have life and live life and struggle and have good days and bad days and who are as everyone else is. We live, we die, we have fun we suffer. So ... Do you have a personal relationship with yourself?
 

ZenMonkey

St. James VII
That doesn't sound like perfect atheism to me but a non-anthropomorphic form of theism. You have combined two different levels of understanding of theos, scrambled your pizza into your spaghetti. So, Yes and No.

Let me put an idea across your bow. My idea is to ask yourself what you see in Christ which you feel should be applied in the world. Christianity is observance of the principles of God as revealed in Judaism and includes a common language and mythos with other Christians. It is not a loner religion but one which must be shared. You enter a shared dream, but you don't just stay there. You also don't just leave it without also taking a little something with you. I have heard a priest explain that as you approach the altar during the liturgy you enter heaven. This wording explains a lot. It explains our common prayer and many constructs in gospel stories. You go into Christ, and in Christ everything is true; and you work to make it also true in this other world. This fallen world which is under the authority of the rulers of darkness but which is being brought into new leadership. In Christ everyone loves everyone else, so you try to take that and make it real here as it is in heaven. At that point you have chosen to believe. You melt and become nothing but part of Christ to the degree that you are able in accordance with the measure of your faith, which may be small but still potent. You take your little scooper, and you scoop some of heaven and bring it here to transform this world. In Christ all are one, and this you try to take with you every time you leave heaven and return to earth.

Christians must all have a common story about a saviour and live in that story. What you must do is understand sacred space and choose whether you are going to enter that sacred space. There are those who will insist that, no, you must absolutely believe even when you leave the sacred space; but that clearly is not you. You're clearly someone who is practical, understands that not everybody can just be super Christian at every hour of the day. Not everyone accepts that, thus you find yourself trying to distinguish why you are drawn to Christ yet can't reconcile yourself with the extreme demands of those who accuse you of being a liar when you can't carry the entire world on your shoulders every day.


What is a super christian? Is that about obedience or being true? What about faith in who we are as opposed to what others tell us to have faith in? I mean, I'm just trying to be me. What or who are you trying to be? Seriously, life is the same yet different for all. I'm me and you're you. I'm from here and there or maybe not. Where are you from? The point is being true and truthful isn't difficult. I have no need to make you like me. Different lives creates different types of people. This isn't a race to the finish line. It's a journey. I'll keep my faith, not worry too much about trying to please or be something I'm not. I'll be alright so long as I stay true to me. It's when I start denying myself that I go through so much discomfort and pain and sorrow and suffering, but then ... that's part of life, so sometimes it takes more intensity to get our feel on ... ya know?
 

Brickjectivity

Turned to Stone. Now I stretch daily.
Staff member
Premium Member
What is a super christian? Is that about obedience or being true? What about faith in who we are as opposed to what others tell us to have faith in? I mean, I'm just trying to be me. What or who are you trying to be? Seriously, life is the same yet different for all. I'm me and you're you. I'm from here and there or maybe not. Where are you from? The point is being true and truthful isn't difficult. I have no need to make you like me. Different lives creates different types of people. This isn't a race to the finish line. It's a journey. I'll keep my faith, not worry too much about trying to please or be something I'm not. I'll be alright so long as I stay true to me. It's when I start denying myself that I go through so much discomfort and pain and sorrow and suffering, but then ... that's part of life, so sometimes it takes more intensity to get our feel on ... ya know?
Thanks for reading my post. I'm not sure how to reply to yours, but by super christian I refer to several things. A super christian can be someone who expects everyone else to be a super christian. They can be someone who upholds an untouchable standard of Christianity against both themselves and others. For example they might expect that all Christians should run 5 miles every morning at 5am and pray for three hours on knees on a hard floor, and anyone who doesn't do that just isn't doing enough. I also consider those who expect super feats of faith. You must absolutely belief *this* and not doubt. You must feel guilty if you don't believe. Ministers who say they know that they know that they know -- they are super christians. Very often its someone who is paid to be a christian who is a super christian, upholding an image that no one else can attain to in reality. It can be superficial or it can be simply a standard which you continually hold against yourself but which there is no way you can ever attain, and this can make you a super christian.
 

LuisDantas

Aura of atheification
Premium Member
No ... I mean Christian Atheism ... and I haven't registered yet, but I may.

I doubt you can, and should.

But you can pretend to know that it isn't a religion if you want to.

I don't need to. I have my own criteria for delimiting what should be considered a religion and I take responsibility for them.

Besides, you do not have much of a case to present in the first place.

It's a way of life, which pretty much makes it a religion. Life is an adventure, a journey of sorts .. some would say a journey of heart. I love me and life and most everyone else too. It's like a discovery of self amidst the confusion in life.

And you want to call that Christian Atheism despite being only tangentially and accidentally connected to either Christianity or Atheism because...?
 

Aupmanyav

Be your own guru
so ... God is, life is, all is and that's all there is to it. Who is God to you and I'll counter with a who God is (.)
I have no God or Goddess. I term 'what exists' as Brahman and specify that my Brahman is not a God. It is neither a man nor a woman, and it has no interest in fate of humans or any other species of animals. The closest to my Brahman is 'physical energy', that with which we started at the time of Big Bang. If you use the word God or logos, then I will say that you are a Christian theist in disguise. You are not even a deist as you have bound yourself to Christianity. Strong atheist do not make any exception.
 
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HonestJoe

Well-Known Member
I'm officially declaring myself a Christian Atheist, which has yet to be but has also already been clearly defined.
Why do you need a label? Why do you need to declare anything? Could you just get on with your life, live to whatever principles and ideas you think are best, explaining them to anyone who asks.

It seems this thread has demonstrated that sticking yourself with a label, especially one you admit is so poorly and variously defined, just causes more trouble than it’s worth. You’ve wasted time arguing what the term means and said nothing about what you actually believe.
 

Unveiled Artist

Veteran Member
Terms .. like the term logos or Word like in John 1 ,,, You know, communication, divine utterance, language, expression, etc. Here in America there's a think we like to term ... freedom of speech. That's in direct relation to John 1 where in the begining was and God was and all things were ... and then on to the word became and dwelt among but some loved hiding from instead of that light ... and that seems to be what we have here today and yesterday and years before. I can secular terms, religious terms and it's still the same for me and backed by scripture, as in the bible, but then as I stated, some love darkness more than and pretty much hide themselves from that particular light. you know ... the way, the "truth' and the life ... you know ... LIFE what is true and the way for all who exist.

Unless you believe in God/life but not god/deity, I'm not sure how you belief in God/deity and no God/deity at the same time.

Is god "also" a deity being to you?
 
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