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Christian: Are Worship Teams scriptural???

Discussion in 'Same Faith Debates' started by Scuba Pete, Mar 7, 2005.

  1. Scuba Pete

    Scuba Pete Le plongeur avec attitude...

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    This may get absolutely no input, but since we don't have our own forum, I thought I would ask this of my brethren who might be on this forum.

    Worship Team: A group of brothers and sisters who sing through microphones during service.

    Those who use them say that they are JUST as authorised as a song leader, and fit under the "Orderly Worship" concept.

    Those against them say they are a trend towards "performance" in our worship services.

    What say ye?

    (Caveat, I am an active member (Bass & sometimes Tenor) on my church's Worship Team.)
     
  2. Tzeitel

    Tzeitel Member

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    I don't believe that worship teams are scriptural.

    Much of the music is bordering on worldly music. It ususally doesn't focus on what Jesus did for us, but a generalized spiritual experience.

    It is emotional, and the Bible tells us to be sober and vigilant.

    Many times it is lead by women, who are NOT to lead in the congregation, or teach over men.

    Many times, the teams promote dancing. Men and women never danced in the presence of each other.

    God never tells believers to dance in order to worship him. He tells us to worship in spirit and truth, with psalms, hymns, and spiritual songs.

    Worshiping God is following proper doctrine and following the Great Commission, and serving him. It is not having an emotional experience, which many of these worship teams promote.
     
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  3. Scuba Pete

    Scuba Pete Le plongeur avec attitude...

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    Do you have scriptures to support your stance???
     
  4. Linus

    Linus Well-Known Member

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    Funny, I grew up in the CoC and I have never heard of this kind of thing before. Interesting.

    I guess it would depend on the real intent of having one.

    If the purpose is just to make the singing sound better, then I would be opposed to the idea. It seems like it would be focusing on the physical side of the worship rather than the spiritual. I don't think God cares about what we sound like, but rather what is in our hearts. I think a song leader is enough to do that and we don't even have to have those. Who cares if we sing out of tune as long as we are worshipping in spirit and in truth. What do you think NetDoc?
     
  5. Scuba Pete

    Scuba Pete Le plongeur avec attitude...

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    Well it's great to have opinions, but I am looking for scriptural support or rejection of the principle.

    As for motives, well many of the songs we sing are not in the hymnal. The only way to learn the parts then is to hear them. The only way to hear them is to have them amplified. Singing has improved dramatically since inception.
     
  6. Linus

    Linus Well-Known Member

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    Well, we have no biblical evidence to support anything like it. Obviously microphones didn't exist back in the day, but there is no mention of anything like it. I don't know. To me it is like having a choir. Why do we not have a choir? It just seems to single people out during the worship.
     
  7. Dadball

    Dadball Member

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    NetDoc



    I personally believe that praising God in song either by chants, hymns or with electric guitars is worship to God. I also think if someone were to look closely enough, they can probably find scriptural reference to either side. I'll reference some here.



    Exodus 15

    1 Then Moses and the Israelites sang this song to the LORD: "I will sing to the LORD, for he is highly exalted. The horse and its rider he has hurled into the sea. 2 The LORD is my strength and my song; he has become my salvation. He is my God, and I will praise him, my father's God, and I will exalt him.



    Number 10

    10 Also at your times of rejoicing-your appointed feasts and New Moon festivals-you are to sound the trumpets over your burnt offerings and fellowship offerings, [a] and they will be a memorial for you before your God. I am the LORD your God."



    1 Chronicles 6

    32 They ministered with music before the tabernacle, the Tent of Meeting, until Solomon built the temple of the LORD in Jerusalem. They performed their duties according to the regulations laid down for them.



    Psalm 81

    1 Sing for joy to God our strength; shout aloud to the God of Jacob! 2 Begin the music, strike the tambourine, play the melodious harp and lyre.



    Psalm 98

    4 Shout for joy to the LORD , all the earth, burst into jubilant song with music; 5 make music to the LORD with the harp, with the harp and the sound of singing, 6 with trumpets and the blast of the ram's horn- shout for joy before the LORD , the King.



    Amos 5

    23 Away with the noise of your songs! I will not listen to the music of your harps.



    Luke 19

    37When he came near the place where the road goes down the Mount of Olives, the whole crowd of disciples began joyfully to praise God in loud voices for all the miracles they had seen: 38“Blessed is the king who comes in the name of the Lord!” “Peace in heaven and glory in the highest!” 39Some of the Pharisees in the crowd said to Jesus, “Teacher, rebuke your disciples!” 40“I tell you,” he replied, “If they keep quiet, the stones will cry out.”



    Colossians 3

    16Let the word of Christ dwell in you richly as you teach and admonish one another with all wisdom, and as you sing psalms, hymns and spiritual songs with gratitude in your hearts to God.



    Hebrews 2

    12He says, “I will declare your name to my brothers; in the presence of the congregation I will sing your praises.”



    Revelation 15

    2And I saw what looked like a sea of glass mixed with fire and, standing beside the sea, those who had been victorious over the beast and his image and over the number of his name. They held harps given them by God 3and sang the song of Moses the servant of God and the song of the Lamb: “Great and marvelous are your deeds,

    Lord God Almighty. Just and true are your ways,

    King of the ages. 4Who will not fear you, O Lord,

    and bring glory to your name? For you alone are holy. All nations will come

    and worship before you, for your righteous acts have been revealed.”
     
  8. No*s

    No*s Captain Obvious

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    ******MOD POST******

    This is a same faiths debate for the Church of Christ. I would ask everyone in here who is Church of Christ to fill out their religion field accordingly. If you are not Church of Christ, then please do not post.​
     
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  9. Scuba Pete

    Scuba Pete Le plongeur avec attitude...

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    As many do not realise, most who are invloved with the churches of Christ refuse to be called anything BUT Christian. We don't believe in denominations (not found in scripture) and so we refuse to belong to one. The churches of Christ for the most part are independentat assemblies that are committed to worshiping in the same fashion as the First Century churches did.

    I have since talked with No*S and he has agreed that those professing "Christian" as their faith may also post here. I guess he learned a bit about us in the process as well! :D
     
  10. Tzeitel

    Tzeitel Member

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    Don't you also believe in baptismal regeneration?
     
  11. No*s

    No*s Captain Obvious

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    OK, at the thread owner's request, the same-faith debate is expanded to just "Christian."
     
  12. true blood

    true blood Active Member

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    This is incorrect. There is no male or female in Jesus Christ, nor bond or free, Jew or Gentile. But this is off topic.

    Many have different forms of worship, different groups, different denominations, some none at all. Such diversity of ritual among believers leads me to believe not all can be in alignment with the Truth. It's probably critically important imo to know and do the true form of worship.

    John 4:22 Ye worship ye know not what: we know what we worship: for salvation if of the believer. But the hour comes and now is when the true worshippers shall worship the Father in spirit and in truth: For the Father seekth such to worship him.

    God is a Spirit and they that worship him must worship him in spirit and in truth.

    Ok so in John 4:22 Jesus basicly says that everyone worships, however the question is are we worshipping rightly? Then he goes on and basicly says that the true worshippers will worship Him not by candles, no altars, not by bible reading, and not by singing, BUT BY THE SPIRIT. You can take a look at all the different groups of religions and see that the forms they use for worship have been and continue to use candles and altars like for instance the catholic church. Many christian groups feel that bible reading and teaching are worship and even singing. But they very person they say is their Lord, Jesus, says those means are not the correct worship. Jesus says that the true worship shall be "...in spirit and in truth.." Note, spirit and truth, double nouns used. Two nouns used but one thing meants. The double noun being used to doubly emphasize that it is spirtually true, or truely spiritual. More reason to consider what Jesus was talking about.

    Matthew 15 gives a good account of worship, but again it is not true worship. Matthew 15:6: Thus have ye made the commandment of God of none effect by your tradition. Hypocrites, well did Esaias prophesy of you, saying, This people draweth nigh unto me with their mouth, and honoureth me with lips; but their heart is far from me. But in vain they do worship me, teaching doctrines the commandments of men."

    You see the worship looked real. Probably was given credit as a form of worship. But what did the Lord say?

    Mark 7:5 descripes Vain Worship. Usually man is worshipped more than God. Been going on a long time.

    So throughout the bible there are many forms of worship shown but yet none of them were the correct way because Jesus Christ had said the hour cometh(future at that time) when the true ones will worship in truth. This would then be the true form of what and how to worship God. This implies that there was no true form of worship before the "said hour" Jesus foretold. None of the singing, reading, chanting, candle lighting, altars, music playing, imagies etc.. qualified, in the eyes of God, as true worship. Because none of it was in spirit and in truth. It's because one had to be born-again of God's Spirit. True worship is impossible without it. And to worship by the spirit you operate a power of the holy spirit. The manifestation of the spirit which produces the true worship is speaking in tongues. And there are verses to back this up.

    I Corinthians 14:2: For he that speaketh in an unknown tongue speaketh not unto men, but unto God..."

    Think about it though. The essence of worship is to communicate with God. And speaking to God in truth and spirit is a two way street. You talk to him and he talks to you. That is the essence of worshipping. The only difference between speaking in tongues and speaking say in English is that when one says, "I post on religiousforums" one has to think, move their lips, tongue, throat. You formulated the words and pushed them out. But when one speaks in tongues you do not think the words you speak. God gives the words to your spirit and you formulate them on your lips. You do not think the words but they are there when you move your lips, throat and tongue. What you speak is God's business, but that you speak is your business.
     
  13. Scuba Pete

    Scuba Pete Le plongeur avec attitude...

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    I truly believe you missed the point of John 4:22. It's not they didn't know HOW to worship, it's that they didn't know WHO to worship (he was talking to Samaritans).

    I don't see Matthew 15 mentioning "worship". Acts of righteousness and prayer are mentioned, but not worship.

    Mark 7 deals with eating and not with worship.

    Now I Corinthians 14 IS about meeting together, ostensibly for worship!

    I Corinthians 14:26 What then shall we say, brothers? When you come together, everyone has a hymn, or a word of instruction, a revelation, a tongue or an interpretation. All of these must be done for the strengthening of the church. 27 If anyone speaks in a tongue, two--or at the most three--should speak, one at a time, and someone must interpret. 28 If there is no interpreter, the speaker should keep quiet in the church and speak to himself and God. 29 Two or three prophets should speak, and the others should weigh carefully what is said. 30 And if a revelation comes to someone who is sitting down, the first speaker should stop. 31 For you can all prophesy in turn so that everyone may be instructed and encouraged. 32 The spirits of prophets are subject to the control of prophets. 33 For God is not a God of disorder but of peace.

    Epesians 5:19. Speak to one another with psalms, hymns and spiritual songs. Sing and make music in your heart to the Lord, 20 always giving thanks to God the Father for everything, in the name of our Lord Jesus Christ.

    Colossians 3:15. Let the peace of Christ rule in your hearts, since as members of one body you were called to peace. And be thankful. 16 Let the word of Christ dwell in you richly as you teach and admonish one another with all wisdom, and as you sing psalms, hymns and spiritual songs with gratitude in your hearts to God. 17 And whatever you do, whether in word or deed, do it all in the name of the Lord Jesus, giving thanks to God the Father through him.

    Highlights are mine. BTW, prophecy here is what we refer to as preaching... it is different from revelation which is also mentioned.
     
  14. Tzeitel

    Tzeitel Member

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    This portion of scripture is referring to salvation- NOT leadership roles. You are taking this scripture way out of context.

    Please explain 1 Tim 9-15, if you believe that God sees no difference in the sexes: In like manner also, that women adorn themselves in modest apparel, with shamefacedness and sobriety; not with broided hair, or gold, or pearls, or costly array; But (which becometh women professing godliness) with good works. Let the woman learn in silence with all subjection. But I suffer not a woman to teach, nor to usurp authority over the man, but to be in silence. For Adam was first formed, then Eve. And Adam was not deceived, but the woman being deceived was in the transgression. Notwithstanding she shall be saved in childbearing, if they continue in faith and charity and holiness with sobriety.
     
  15. Tzeitel

    Tzeitel Member

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    you can't really use 1 Corinthians 14 as HOW to do something because 1 Corinthians is a REBUKE- how NOT to do something- and tongues are clearly NOT in use today.
     
  16. Scuba Pete

    Scuba Pete Le plongeur avec attitude...

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    But still,

    we have no scriptural references that disallow worship teams.
     
  17. Tzeitel

    Tzeitel Member

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    No we don't have scripture that disallow worship teams- but we do have scriptures that disallow certain things- like emotionalism in worship, wordly music, a fleshly beat, women leading etc. If a worship team is solely people who lead the congregation in singing godly hymns that glorify and honor the Lord Jesus Christ then by all means- as long as it is composed of professed believers who follow Gods will.
     
  18. Scuba Pete

    Scuba Pete Le plongeur avec attitude...

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    Really??? Trot these out for us!
     
  19. true blood

    true blood Active Member

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    Sorry mods this is off-topic but I must respond because it's disrespectful to say woman cannot teach in the true church. The reality in the body of christ is that there are no gender roles. Everyone is equal, special and worthy. Verses like Tim 9 have been translated and taught poorly. It's highly unlikely that Jesus Christ, at least his character we read in the bible, would ever silence a woman that teaches about believing in him and loving others like he did. Israeli armies have been led by women. Some women in the bible even had the authority and status to correct some apostles.
     
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  20. keevelish

    keevelish Member

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    whether or not you think it is disrespectul doesn't make your interpretation true. I am myself a woman and I find the true interpretation of that verse that women are not to preach in a congregation or teach men spiritual things. Look in the Bible though, it says women can teach other women and children, but not men. I am in no way offended by this teaching so it is most certainly not disrespectful. I respect and honor my God and seek to bring him glory by RIGHTLY DIVIDING scripture. The Bible (king james) is translated correctly and is God's word. If you think that it is mistranslated, then it seems to me that you don't really believe that God's word is infallible and the end to all things.
     
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