Christ Has returned, what should have we looked for?

[TransmutingSoul]

No, the events are nowhere near able to be called "nearly identical". Jesus was arrested and crucified. The bab was hung from a rope and shot at. When the shots broke the rope he tried to flee, but he was brought back and shot proper. Being accused of apostasy is the only connection between the two, but you might as well compare every apostate every slain to Jesus at that point.

That is not the story told with justice and the events are uncannily connected.

https://www.google.com.au/url?sa=t&source=web&rct=j&url=http://phoenixbahaicommunity.org/wp-content/uploads/2012/10/Parallels-between-the-Lives-of-Christ-and-the-B%C3%A1b-revised.pdf&ved=2ahUKEwjax_ay_sTZAhUDEbwKHaX_Dx8QFjADegQICBAB&usg=AOvVaw37vEpMHLSi76B3LtXyMrTP

The above document was compiled to show this in detail. It is a PDF from the Phoenix Bahai Community.

Justice is a gift we all can use.

Regads Tony

 

[Frater Sisyphus]

10,000 people disappearing every minute!


But seriously though, to take the Christian theology literally - "Behold, he cometh with clouds; and every eye shall see him, and they also which pierced him: and all kindreds of the earth shall wail because of him."

The literal Christian apocalypse seems less like an apocalypse and more like a game over screen.

To complicate matters:

Despite that I am not a Christian myself, I don't believe/interpret that Revelation an Apocalypse book. The esoteric symbolism itself is precisely that, symbolism. Within Christian theology I believe it is just a metaphor for what much of moral struggle that the Bible has already spoke of, but outside of Christian theology it is a very Gnostic (and soon to be; Occultic) pronouncement within the alchemical process. (but that's a whole other discussion)

Doomsday Christians sadden me because they complexly miss how fun/visceral the very book they use to hype their hysteria.

 

[QuestioningMind]

This is true, this is also why Christ gave extra guidance.

First beware if those that come.in Christs Name, we will be looking for a new Name.

2nd By their Life and Fruits you will know them

3rd By their Prophecy you shall know them, and

4 th they will Testify of Christ.

Regards Tony

With all due respect, that 'extra guidance' sounds just as vague and easy to interpret in any manner a person chooses as any of the vague prophecies.

 

[oldbadger]

Personally, I don't wait for the return of an eternal and omnipresent being, because one cannot logically be so and leave in the first place.

Of course......... to be eternal all-present and absent is surely an eternal contradiction.

In any case, the Bab had forsaken the Islamic faith, had challenged the Islamic theocratic government, had promoted insurrection and was clearly determined to effect instability and revolution throughout Persia. And unlike Yeshua he did not support all the people of his land because he would have been content to see Muslims turned out of named cities and even out of their own homes, had he come to any level of power. And his followers took to outright violence against government officers.
And Bahai describes this person as holy, spiritual, peaceful and a victim of wickedness. It was the attempted rebirth of Double-Speak and Double-Think, a condition that does seem to reincarnate itself through history.

 

[TransmutingSoul]

Of course......... to be eternal all-present and absent is surely an eternal contradiction.

In any case, the Bab had forsaken the Islamic faith, had challenged the Islamic theocratic government, had promoted insurrection and was clearly determined to effect instability and revolution throughout Persia. And unlike Yeshua he did not support all the people of his land because he would have been content to see Muslims turned out of named cities and even out of their own homes, had he come to any level of power. And his followers took to outright violence against government officers.
And Bahai describes this person as holy, spiritual, peaceful and a victim of wickedness. It was the attempted rebirth of Double-Speak and Double-Think, a condition that does seem to reincarnate itself through history.

This is the recorded History, to those that want to verify your comments.

Wikipedia - Báb - Wikipedia

Dawn Breakers - Detailed History - Bahá'í Reference Library - The Dawn-Breakers: Nabíl’s Narrative of the Early Days of the Bahá’í Revelation

Regards Tony

 

[oldbadger]

This is the recorded History, to those that want to verify your comments.

Wikipedia - Báb - Wikipedia

Dawn Breakers - Detailed History - Bahá'í Reference Library - The Dawn-Breakers: Nabíl’s Narrative of the Early Days of the Bahá’í Revelation

Regards Tony

I think that we've been there, done the research, discovered the truth, and established the history as written in my post.

The Bahai account is just so different from the history.

 

[Buddha Dharma]

I think that we've been there, done the research, discovered the truth, and established the history as written in my post.

The Bahai account is just so different from the history.

I'd love to see a more secular history on the early days of the Baha'i movement. Is it in your earlier posts? Let me scroll up.

 

[The Kilted Heathen]

That is not the story told with justice

And what is justice... The only other account of him magically disappearing, then magically fusing with the one believer who wanted to die with him as they floated up to heaven?

I'll take the reality of the event as recorded by impartial parties. In either case, it's nowhere near the story of Jesus.

 

[soulsurvivor]

This thread is simple. This is about the promise of Christ Return.

From a Baha'i point of view this event has happened and was Fulfilled in the Messages of the Bab ("Gate") and Baha'u'llah ("Glory of God", or "Glory of the Lord").

As many await this event, both Christians and Muslims, how did we miss the greatest moment in History to date, would be the over-riding question to consider with this OP.

View attachment 20526

But lets go for a further three options;

What should have we looked for?
What are you still waiting for?
Why are you sitting with popcorn?

Only 8 million in the world out more than 7 billion believe this story. Probably because it is not true. Ahmadis have a similar story and there are almost twice as many of them (over 16 million). The number of Ahmadis in the world is increasing (I think the number Bahais is probably decreasing). Actually neither story is true, both the stories do not fulfill the prediction in hadiths of the Mahdi and Jesus praying together. In any case the Bab does not seem like a person fit to be the Mahdi (The Violent Ways of The Bab and The Babis - The Bahai Awareness Homepage)

The Christ is still to Return and many people think it will happen soon.

 

[oldbadger]

I'd love to see a more secular history on the early days of the Baha'i movement. Is it in your earlier posts? Let me scroll up.

Hello....
That was my first post on this thread.
In another thread I took close interest and really dug in to search for as much history as possible about the Bab. I found the Bahai writings to be most deceptive about this, and when I posted my findings some of the replies became more centered upon my person rather than focused upon historical facts. I was even called demonic.

But I did collect, copy and paste quite a lot of my discoveries and file them in my main computer, and so can recover and post here if needed or challenged, but since the main theme is generally about 'the return of Jesus' that might wander off true thread unless this is a definite and clear 'sell' for Bahai.

 

[TransmutingSoul]

How has he fulfilled any of the conditions I offered?

Baha'u'llah fulfilled the Prophecies for the Messiah and of Christ. The way He fulfilled them is Biblical, but a new Frame of Reference is needed.

I don't believe in Jesus, so I'm not sure if my perspective is relevant. However, to accept that Jesus did return, I would probably have to see one of these conditions:

1. A man generally fulfilling the conditions to be considered a Jewish Messiah declare that he's the same Jesus as the one Christians worship. I'd accept this since the conditions to be considered a Jewish Messiah are fairly stringent.

Baha'u'llah says all the Messengers are One, they all shared the same Message. this is explained in great detail

2. A majority of the admittedly sparse prophecies made in the Gospels to occur, and a miraculous figure claiming to be Jesus to appear.

Both the Bab and Baha'u'llah they came with the New Name as Jesus said beware of those that come in My Name and if you receive Me, I will write upon you my New Name.

All the Prophecies will have a Spiritual Fulfillment unfolding in an unexpected material way. This is clear as the Sun and the Moon to be darkened and the stars to fall to the Earth can not be literal. Also a person riding on some clouds will also not happen.

3. The prophecies of Revelation to occur.

A lot of Prophecies in Revelation were fulfilled with the Revelation of Muhammad, the remainder were for the Bab and Baha'u'llah. For instant, the 3 Woes of Revelation were Muhammad, the Bab and Baha'u'llah.

Since the only information about Jesus is contained within the Christian Bible, I don't think it's possible for someone who doesn't fulfill one of these conditions to be considered the same Jesus as the one portrayed in the Bible.

Muhammad, the Bab and Baha'u'llah has fulfilled these Prophecies. They tie together with the 1260 year prophecies of Daniel and Revelation.

Regards Tony

 

[TransmutingSoul]

I think that we've been there, done the research, discovered the truth, and established the history as written in my post.

The Bahai account is just so different from the history.

We have to do our research from sources that are reliable.

Would you ask a Jew about Christ? Would you ask a Christian about Muhammad? Would you ask a Muslim about the Bab and Baha'u'llah. It is that simple.

If ones goes to the source that wanted to eradicate the Message, you will be fed Fake News. Pure and simple.

There are a couple of more reliable sources that were not Baha'i, they support the fact that the Baha'i history, as recorded, is an accurate portrayal of the birth of a new Peace seeking Faith, amongst barbarians.

Regards Tony

 

[TransmutingSoul]

Only 8 million in the world out more than 7 billion believe this story. Probably because it is not true. Ahmadis have a similar story and there are almost twice as many of them (over 16 million). The number of Ahmadis in the world is increasing (I think the number Bahais is probably decreasing). Actually neither story is true, both the stories do not fulfill the prediction in hadiths of the Mahdi and Jesus praying together. In any case the Bab does not seem like a person fit to be the Mahdi (The Violent Ways of The Bab and The Babis - The Bahai Awareness Homepage)

The Christ is still to Return and many people think it will happen soon.

Your link is very unreliable, it is set up to attack the Baha'i Faith, thus it is a source from those that seek to persecute. If you pursue these sources, you will never, and I repeat never, find any Truth in this life.

That is the best advice I can give you.

Stay well and happy and all the best in life.

Regards Tony

 

[The Kilted Heathen]

Would you ask a Jew about Christ? Would you ask a Christian about Muhammad? Would you ask a Muslim about the Bab and Baha'u'llah.

Yes. Ask all peoples, of all interests and investments, and you stand a better chance of hitting at the truth than just asking people who dare not say a bad thing against them. If you can't criticize those that you look up to, then you're not offering truth, you're just blowing more holy smoke.

 

[Saint Frankenstein]

Would you ask a Jew about Christ? Would you ask a Christian about Muhammad? Would you ask a Muslim about the Bab and Baha'u'llah. It is that simple.

No, you go to a historian for facts. You go to a religious source for theology.

 

[TransmutingSoul]

Only 8 million in the world out more than 7 billion believe this story. Probably because it is not true. Ahmadis have a similar story and there are almost twice as many of them (over 16 million). The number of Ahmadis in the world is increasing (I think the number Bahais is probably decreasing). Actually neither story is true, both the stories do not fulfill the prediction in hadiths of the Mahdi and Jesus praying together. In any case the Bab does not seem like a person fit to be the Mahdi (The Violent Ways of The Bab and The Babis - The Bahai Awareness Homepage)

The Christ is still to Return and many people think it will happen soon.

Your link is very unreliable, it is set up to attack the Baha'i Faith, thus it is a source from those that seek to persecute. If you pursue these sources, you will never, and I repeat never, find any Truth in this life.

That is the best advice I can give you.

No Baha'i will say there was not a violent start to the Message of the Bab. What would one expect, you can see what the radical do in this day, they were worse then. At that time the Law of Muhammad for defense was still valid.

The full reliable History is available at this link - Bahá'í Reference Library - The Dawn-Breakers: Nabíl’s Narrative of the Early Days of the Bahá’í Revelation

Stay well and happy and all the best in life.

Regards Tony

 

[Saint Frankenstein]

Your link is very unreliable, it is set up to attack the Baha'i Faith, thus it is a source from those that seek to persecute. If you pursue these sources, you will never, and I repeat never, find any Truth in this life.

That is the best advice I can give you.

Stay well and happy and all the best in life.

Regards Tony

You seem to think that only sources that describe your religion in glowing terms are to be trusted. Of course you do. Sounds like a cult.

 

[oldbadger]

We have to do our research from sources that are reliable.

Too blooming right, cobber!

Would you ask a Jew about Christ? Would you ask a Christian about Muhammad? Would you ask a Muslim about the Bab and Baha'u'llah. It is that simple.

Yes I would, but I don't have to swallow any answer I get.
Bahai claims about historical content have been shown to be extremely inaccurate in places.
It's a simple as that.

If ones goes to the source that wanted to eradicate the Message, you will be fed Fake News. Pure and simple.

But if we go to the source that wants to sell the message we find very worrying claims.

There are a couple of more reliable sources that were not Baha'i, they support the fact that the Baha'i history, as recorded, is an accurate portrayal of the birth of a new Peace seeking Faith, amongst barbarians.

Regards Tony

And now you step into seriously dodgy ground, because you're outright calling the Shia Islamic faith 'barbarian'.

That is a typical example of what Bahai 'peace seeking' really is. Shocking.

 

[wizanda]

All these things that have to happen before Christ's return that haven't happened yet.

The only things left to happen is the removal of all the ungodly, and the resurrection of the saints...

I've known since birth, sent just before it, in an effort to warn everyone they've already been deceived, and since most people ignore me, it will happen anyway.

Christ returns at the midnight hour (Matthew 25:1-13, Mark 13:35-37) as a thief (Revelation 3:3, Revelation 16:15), to fight with the words from his mouth how people are not following what was taught.

In my opinion.

 

[Duke_Leto]

@Tony Bristow-Stagg , thank you for your response. I have a few questions though:

Baha'u'llah fulfilled the Prophecies for the Messiah and of Christ. The way He fulfilled them is Biblical, but a new Frame of Reference is needed.

Could you give an example of a few? For instance, has he ushered in a reign of world peace, with his rule centered in Jerusalem?

Baha'u'llah says all the Messengers are One, they all shared the same Message. this is explained in great detail

Would you mind explaining how they are? I apologize for not looking it up myself, but it's difficult to find coherent sources on the Baha'i faith.

All the Prophecies will have a Spiritual Fulfillment unfolding in an unexpected material way. This is clear as the Sun and the Moon to be darkened and the stars to fall to the Earth can not be literal. Also a person riding on some clouds will also not happen.

But if that's so, wouldn't it be possible to interpret anything as having fulfilled these prophecies? Unless there's a very clear way to determine that they were in fact fulfilled, it seems like it would be quite easy to make any claim you could want.

A lot of Prophecies in Revelation were fulfilled with the Revelation of Muhammad, the remainder were for the Bab and Baha'u'llah. For instant, the 3 Woes of Revelation were Muhammad, the Bab and Baha'u'llah.

Muhammad, the Bab, and Baha'u'llah were metaphorical plagues of locusts, demons, and bowls of God's wrath spilled out as a punishment for humanity? Are you sure?

Muhammad, the Bab and Baha'u'llah has fulfilled these Prophecies. They tie together with the 1260 year prophecies of Daniel and Revelation.

Once again, could you illustrate how?