Christ Has returned, what should have we looked for?

[Vouthon]

It will take time for the coming of Baha’u’llah to be fully appreciated just like it did when Jesus first arose to proclaim His message of love.

Baha’u’llah has come to teach unity in an age that desperately needs it and has brough both teachings and the blueprint to establish the Kingdom of God on earth - a world spiritual civilisation.

One of the main disagreements I have with the Baha'i Faith is precisely this concept of a religion possessing the blueprint for society on earth: that is, the governing body of one religion actually legislating as part of the juridical regime of a future global commonwealth or polity. As Baha'u'llah contends in one of his tablets:

"All matters of State should be referred to the House of Justice, but acts of worship must be observed according to that which God hath revealed in His Book."

(Tablets of Bahá’u’lláh)​

The Universal House of Justice is the executive body of the Baha'i religion and Shoghi Effendi further explained that it will become the: “supreme legislative body of the future Bahá'í Commonwealth” (Shoghi Effendi, Messages to the Bahá'í World, p. 149). Bahá'u'lláh's statement that: "All matters of State should be referred to the House of Justice ... " is now printed with the Aqdas, in Other Sections, page 91. Its position in the Kitab-i Aqdas, "the Charter of the future world civilization", "this Most Holy Book, whose provisions must remain inviolate for no less than a thousand years, and whose system will embrace the entire planet" is somewhat disconcerting to me.

'Abdu'l-Bahá expanded further upon Bahá'u'lláh's establishment of the Universal House of Justice:

“He [Bahá'u'lláh] has ordained and established the House of Justice, which is endowed with a political as well as a religious function, the consummate union and blending of church and state. . . . Its rulings shall be in accordance with the commands and teachings of Bahá'u'lláh, and that which the Universal House of Justice ordains shall be obeyed by all mankind. This international House of Justice shall be appointed and organized from the Houses of Justice of the whole world"
​

'Abdu'l-Bahá explained that the “Universal House of Justice, likewise, wardeth off all differences and whatever it prescribeth must be accepted and he who transgresseth is rejected.” Shoghi Effendi likewise concurs by arguing that when "the majority of the peoples of a number of the Sovereign States of the world" accept the Baha'i Revelation, "the Universal House of Justice will attain the plenitude of its power, and exercise, as the supreme organ of the Bahá'í Commonwealth, [with] all the rights, the duties, and responsibilities incumbent upon the world's future super-state.”

This is not in keeping, I should think, with liberal secularism here in the West. We have long advanced beyond the stage of allowing religious dignitaries, authorities and legal codes to dictate secular life and politics.

A vast, all-powerful religious government (that only men and not women can be elected to, I should add) covering the entire planet and passing authoritative legal judgements based upon a scriptural text written in 19th century Iran, that are binding on every country and the conscience of all people is not an inviting prospect; nor one which is likely to enlist the enthusiastic support of a substantial number of modern, educated people IMHO.

As Denis MacEoin, a scholar of Islamic and Middle Eastern studies, stated the Bahá'í Faith has a "long-term aim of establishing theocratic rule in Iran and throughout the world".(See his 'The Shi'i establishment in Modern Iran', in Denis MacEoin and Ahmed Al-Shah (eds), Islam in the Modern World, London etc. Croom Helm, 1983)

It is a most unfortunate and antiquated doctrine for an otherwise progressive religion to espouse, in my humble assessment, if this understanding of mine represents an accurate analysis.

 

[Fool]

God the CPU manifests reality; that is Yeshua's father the God Most High (El Elyon)...

Arch Angels (Elohim/Avatars) have come in human form throughout recorded history.

In my opinion.

all human forms come from descending angels. God is the Father of all manifested things as you have unconsciously noted. jesus said OUR father.


these are those from jacobs ladder, or as jesus said, no one goes up to heaven except the son of man who came down from heaven.


avatar simply means to descend

the human is made up of all 7 of those seals


Revelation 17:11
The beast who once was, and now is not, is an eighth king. He belongs to the seven and is going to his destruction.

 

[wizanda]

Very few people have ever come to believe in Christ based upon his supposed presaging in the Jewish prophets

Really not sure why, it is blatant to those who have an ear; there are loads of times it says, 'our God Yeshua' in some form or another in Hebrew...

Plus the 'anointed one' references are only Daniel 9:26, Isaiah 52:14 (dead sea scrolls)... Thus the Messiah being put to death should be a common Hebraic belief.

In my opinion.

 

[TransmutingSoul]

Everything's better with popcorn, especially movie popcorn.

The sad thing is, Jesus could come back and it turns out the bible was less than accurate about what he was. Ten bucks says Christianity would hang him back up on a cross.

You won, it was the Muslims this time, but a lot of the Muslims also wait the return of Christ.

They Executed the Bab by Firing Squad, the events nearly identical to that of Christ.

They Persecuted, Exiled and Imprisoned Baha'u'llah for 40 years.

Hope you are well and enjoy the popcorn, it is nice

Regards Tony

 

[TransmutingSoul]

mencius said it best,

friendship is two bodies being of one mind.


or another way of looking at it is great minds think alike.

when one realizes that they are one with the Absolute, or the Universe, and not separate from it, then they realize that they are a part of something great.

I am in the Father and the Father is in me. or I AM in the Absolute and the Absolute is in me.

Do you know the Father though?

The Father is Baha'u'llah. Baha'u'llah does stand within us, but our own self must be given over to the Father to begin to know who we are.

Regards Tony

 

[TransmutingSoul]

According to Muhammad and Islamic theology you're wrong

It was not my Message. Many Muslims were the first to accept both the Bab and Baha'u'llah. Many more still do and they see how all scriptures are fulfilled.

As history has shown only a handful of believers accept the Message when it is given and then time shows it to be true. There is no doubt that the the Message of Baha'u'llah is this same Eternal Truth given of God from age to age.

The proofs Baha'u'llah has given are abundant.

Stay well and happy, Regards Tony

 

[Fool]

Do you know the Father though?

The Father is Baha'u'llah. Baha'u'llah does stand within us, but our own self must be given over to the Father to begin to know who we are.

Regards Tony

jesus would disagree with you

And do not call anyone on earth 'father,' for you have one Father, and he is in heaven.

 

[TransmutingSoul]

There are hundreds and hundreds of prophecies of Christ's return that were not fulfilled in the Baha'i faith.

The NT speaks ten times as much about Christ's return as about His earthly ministry in His First Advent. Baha'i does not fulfill the NT.

Baha'u'llah has answered this for you using Muslim traditions. I have highlighted the section you would need to consider deeply;

"...Thus hath Sadiq, son of Muhammad, spoken: "God verily will test them and sift them." This is the divine standard, this is the Touchstone of God, wherewith He proveth His servants. None apprehendeth the meaning of these utterances except them whose hearts are assured, whose souls have found favour with God, and whose minds are detached from all else but Him. In such utterances, the literal meaning, as generally understood by the people, is not what hath been intended. Thus it is recorded: "Every knowledge hath seventy meanings, of which one only is known amongst the people. And when the Qa'im shall arise, He shall reveal unto men all that which remaineth." He also saith: "We speak one word, and by it we intend one and seventy meanings; each one of these meanings we can explain."

These things We mention only that the people may not be dismayed because of certain traditions and utterances, which have not yet been literally fulfilled, that they may rather attribute their perplexity to their own lack of understanding, and not to the non fulfilment of the promises in the traditions, inasmuch as the meaning intended by the Imams of the Faith is not known by this people, as evidenced by the traditions themselves. The people, therefore, must not allow such utterances to deprive them of the divine bounties, but should rather seek enlightenment from them who are the recognized Expounders thereof, so that the hidden mysteries may be unravelled, and be made manifest unto them.
We perceive none, however, amongst the people of the earth who, sincerely yearning for the Truth, seeketh the guidance of the divine Manifestations concerning the abstruse matters of his Faith. All are dwellers in the land of oblivion, and all are followers of the people of wickedness and rebellion. God will verily do unto them that which they themselves are doing, and will forget them even as they have ignored His Presence in His day. Such is His decree unto those that have denied Him, and such will it be unto them that have rejected His signs...." Baha'u'llah : The Kitab-i-Iqan

Regards Tony

 

[Frater Sisyphus]

10,000 people disappearing every minute!


But seriously though, to take the Christian theology literally - "Behold, he cometh with clouds; and every eye shall see him, and they also which pierced him: and all kindreds of the earth shall wail because of him."

The literal Christian apocalypse seems less like an apocalypse and more like a game over screen.

 

[TransmutingSoul]

I believe we are already acquainted, you will perhaps remember "Yeshua" from Baha'i Forums? Well, that was me in earlier life.

As soon as I saw the Name I knew who it was, we have crossed paths on many Forums Great to see you here.

As always I admire your knowledge and I can only give one hint to you on this matter. We have discussed this subject on other forums already, so I will steer another course this time.

I was not looking for Faith, I did no study of any religion, but behold I was given a Faith. Does this sound familiar to the early days of Christ?

Thus I found Faith in a book called 'God Loves Laughter', I love that book, just a simple story of anthers path to find a Faith, cleverly written to lay down the facts as He told the story. I accepted the Faith upon reading this book, but still had no idea about what any of it really was. Then just after that book, also at that time in 1984, I also read 'Thief in the Night' by the same Author (William Sears), which is 100% about Prophecy Fulfilled and it cemented my heart to the Cause of Baha'u'llah. In the end the Holy Books are filled with Prophecy.

So I ask, if it is of little value, why did God allow so much of it to adorn His Holy Books? It was great value to my soul and I would suggest to many of us less learned, a great bounty in acquiring our spiritual vision.

Ii is a great bounty one can see the sun and the moon have been darkened and the stars have fallen from heaven. That a new Jerusalem has come down from the Heaven of Gods Will...etc etc.

Always a pleasure to have a chat, I could never match you learning, but I am willing to go heart to heart with you, there is only One God after all.

Regards Tony

 

[TransmutingSoul]

Please read these verses from the Bible.

"For the Lord himself shall descend from heaven, with a shout, with the voice of the archangel, and with the trump of God: and the dead in Christ shall rise first;" -1Thessalonians 4:16

"then we that are alive, that are left, shall together with them be caught up in the clouds, to meet the Lord in the air: and so shall we ever be with the Lord." -1Thessalonians 4:17


It's very clear that on Christ 2nd coming, Christians will be “be caught up in the clouds, to meet the Lord in the air” -1Thessalonians 4:17

It did not specifically say that it was Baha’u’llah who would come for the 2nd time.

That is what has happened. I see the vision as I write.

To know who we talk about here, this passage from Shoghi Effendi will give a small idea as to who Baha'u'llah is, for us Baha'u'llah is the Lord Himself;

"....To Him Jesus Christ had referred as the “Prince of this world,” as the “Comforter” Who will “reprove the world of sin, and of righteousness, and of judgment,” as the “Spirit of Truth” Who “will guide you into all truth,” Who “shall not speak of Himself, but whatsoever He shall hear, that shall He speak,” as the “Lord of the Vineyard,” and as the “Son of Man” Who “shall come in the glory of His Father” “in the clouds of heaven with power and great glory,” with “all the holy angels” about Him, and “all nations” gathered before His throne. To Him the Author of the Apocalypse had alluded as the “Glory of God,” as “Alpha and Omega,” “the Beginning and the End,” “the First and the Last.” Identifying His Revelation with the “third woe,” he, moreover, had extolled His Law as “a new heaven and a new earth,” as the “Tabernacle of God,” as the “Holy City,” as the “New Jerusalem, coming down from God out of heaven, prepared as a bride adorned for her husband.” To His Day Jesus Christ Himself had referred as “the regeneration when the Son of Man shall sit in the throne of His glory.” To the hour of His advent St. Paul had alluded as the hour of the “last trump,” the “trump of God,” whilst St. Peter had spoken of it as the “Day of God, wherein the heavens being on fire shall be dissolved, and the elements shall melt with fervent heat.” His Day he, furthermore, had described as “the times of refreshing,” “the times of restitution of all things, which God hath spoken by the mouth of all His holy Prophets since the world began.....”

Page 94 at this link will give the full story - Bahá'í Reference Library - God Passes By, Pages 89-103

Regards Tony

 

[TransmutingSoul]

jesus would disagree with you

And do not call anyone on earth 'father,' for you have one Father, and he is in heaven.

Well that is the point of this Thread. More then happy to discuss.

I can stand in front of you hand on heart and say God strike me down if it is wrong That;

Baha'u'llah has come in the Station of the Father. It is more than that though. After all Christ promised that He would come in a New Name and that the Spirit of Truth would guide us to all Truth.

Regards Tony

 

[Godobeyer]

This thread is simple. This is about the promise of Christ Return.

From a Baha'i point of view this event has happened and was Fulfilled in the Messages of the Bab ("Gate") and Baha'u'llah ("Glory of God", or "Glory of the Lord").

As many await this event, both Christians and Muslims, how did we miss the greatest moment in History to date, would be the over-riding question to consider with this OP.

View attachment 20526

But lets go for a further three options;

What should have we looked for?
What are you still waiting for?
Why are you sitting with popcorn?

Hello
I stopped believing in return of Jesus(pbuh),God said in Quran Jesus(pbuh) is dead,and raised,there is no mention in Quran about his return ,I see no necessary to his return

 

[Vouthon]

As soon as I saw the Name I knew who it was, we have crossed paths on many Forums Great to see you here.

As always I admire your knowledge and I can only give one hint to you on this matter. We have discussed this subject on other forums already, so I will steer another course this time.

Haha, I remember! I think we might have discussed it over on the Catholic Answers Forums as well.

You are always delightful company Tony.

 

[Fool]

Well that is the point of this Thread. More then happy to discuss.

I can stand in front of you hand on heart and say God strike me down if it is wrong That;

Baha'u'llah has come in the Station of the Father. It is more than that though. After all Christ promised that He would come in a New Name and that the Spirit of Truth would guide us to all Truth.

Regards Tony

there is no new name from the abrahamic perspective.

exodus 3:14-15

14 God said to Moses, “I am who I am. This is what you are to say to the Israelites: ‘I am the God of your fathers the God of Abraham, the God of Isaac and the God of Jacob has sent me to you.’

“This is my name forever,
the name you shall call me
from generation to generation.


if God is omnipresent then god is not more this vs that because god is everything. god is not more this person than that person because the All is in all.


this is the name Jesus was sent with: which is from exodus 3:14

Revelation 14:1
[ The Lamb and the 144,000 ] Then I looked, and there before me was the Lamb, standing on Mount Zion, and with him 144,000 who had his name and his Father’s name written on their foreheads.


the All in all is known from the kybalion; which comes from alchemy, or hermes. Hermes was Melchizedek.


"While All is in THE ALL, it is equally true that THE
ALL is in ALL. To him who truly understands this
truth hath come great knowledge."--The Kybalion.

 

[TransmutingSoul]

I have long disagreed with those Evangelical commentators who aver that we are near or at the "end of the world". So much has not happened yet.

'End of Age' is the way I see it and most likely is meant.

It is a New Dawn. The Sun gives its first light at Dawn, this is the Messenger of God prior to the Message to be Given. Then we have Sunrise and the Message is made Manifest. Both these times require people who are up and awake and looking for the rising of the Sun, looking for the new Message.

We that arise after the sun has risen walk out and see the Sun and still see the Sun of yesterday and all days gone before. It is hard for us to see the Sun has risen in a New Name.

Regards Tony

 

[TransmutingSoul]

Haha, I remember! I think we might have discussed it over on the Catholic Answers Forums as well.

You are always delightful company Tony.

As you are too Vouthon, I have always enjoyed your replies...well essays!

Yes they gave me a size 10 at CAF I like it that people ask questions as to why you think as you do and when you give them a firm and clear answer, the Proselytize tag always arises.

I like it they saw the power of the Word to influence others, best they did kick me out, you would not want CAF to be Baha'i...he he. I have the intent to only offer what I believe, in its Pure form. That requires one not to beat around the bush, but learn the wisdom in how much to give at any one time to those that ask.

Once told and to those that do not ask any more, then this is the line, that to me, as to where Proselytize starts. It is not I that converts any heart, so why would that be my motive, the motive is Love.

Regards Tony

 

[TransmutingSoul]

Hello
I stopped believing in return of Jesus(pbuh),God said in Quran Jesus(pbuh) is dead,and raised,there is no mention in Quran about his return ,I see no necessary to his return

Thank you for that. I will just offer a further thought you can consider or disregard.

From my view I have come to know Muhammad (Peace be upon Him) and the Koran because of the Message of Baha'u'llah. I have become aware that there may be Koran Passages and verified Haddith that support the return. This is a topic in its own self.

This is how I see Baha'u'llah in the Koran;

"...To Him Muhammad, the Apostle of God, had alluded in His Book as the “Great Announcement,” and declared His Day to be the Day whereon “God” will “come down” “overshadowed with clouds,” the Day whereon “thy Lord shall come and the angels rank on rank,” and “The Spirit shall arise and the angels shall be ranged in order.” His advent He, in that Book, in a súrih said to have been termed by Him “the heart of the Qur’án,” had foreshadowed as that of the “third” Messenger, sent down to “strengthen” the two who preceded Him. To His Day He, in the pages of that same Book, had paid a glowing tribute, glorifying it as the “Great Day,” the “Last Day,” the “Day of God,” the “Day of Judgment,” the “Day of Reckoning,” the “Day of Mutual Deceit,” the “Day of Severing,” the “Day of Sighing,” the “Day of Meeting,” the Day “when the Decree shall be accomplished,” the Day whereon the second “Trumpet blast” will be sounded, the “Day when mankind shall stand before the Lord of the world,” and “all shall come to Him in humble guise,” the Day when “thou shalt see the mountains, which thou thinkest so firm, pass away with the passing of a cloud,” the Day “wherein account shall be taken,” “the approaching Day, when men’s hearts shall rise up, choking them, into their throats,” the Day when “all that are in the heavens and all that are on the earth shall be terror-stricken, save him whom God pleaseth to deliver,” the Day whereon “every suckling woman shall forsake her sucking babe, and every woman that hath a burden in her womb shall cast her burden,” the Day “when the earth shall shine with the light of her Lord, and the Book shall be set, and the Prophets shall be brought up, and the witnesses; and judgment shall be given between them with equity; and none shall be wronged.” Bahá'í Reference Library - God Passes By, Pages 89-103

Regards Tony

 

[TransmutingSoul]

there is no new name from the abrahamic perspective.

exodus 3:14-15

14 God said to Moses, “I am who I am. This is what you are to say to the Israelites: ‘I am the God of your fathers the God of Abraham, the God of Isaac and the God of Jacob has sent me to you.’

“This is my name forever,
the name you shall call me
from generation to generation.


if God is omnipresent then god is not more this vs that because god is everything. god is not more this person than that person because the All is in all.


this is the name Jesus was sent with: which is from exodus 3:14

Revelation 14:1
[ The Lamb and the 144,000 ] Then I looked, and there before me was the Lamb, standing on Mount Zion, and with him 144,000 who had his name and his Father’s name written on their foreheads.


the All in all is known from the kybalion; which comes from alchemy, or hermes. Hermes was Melchizedek.


"While All is in THE ALL, it is equally true that THE
ALL is in ALL. To him who truly understands this
truth hath come great knowledge."--The Kybalion.

I can answer that in two pictures;

1st

All Nations shall flow up the Mountain of the Lord and the Law will go out from Zion.

 

[TransmutingSoul]

there is no new name from the abrahamic perspective.

exodus 3:14-15

14 God said to Moses, “I am who I am. This is what you are to say to the Israelites: ‘I am the God of your fathers the God of Abraham, the God of Isaac and the God of Jacob has sent me to you.’

“This is my name forever,
the name you shall call me
from generation to generation.


if God is omnipresent then god is not more this vs that because god is everything. god is not more this person than that person because the All is in all.


this is the name Jesus was sent with: which is from exodus 3:14

Revelation 14:1
[ The Lamb and the 144,000 ] Then I looked, and there before me was the Lamb, standing on Mount Zion, and with him 144,000 who had his name and his Father’s name written on their foreheads.


the All in all is known from the kybalion; which comes from alchemy, or hermes. Hermes was Melchizedek.


"While All is in THE ALL, it is equally true that THE
ALL is in ALL. To him who truly understands this
truth hath come great knowledge."--The Kybalion.

2nd Picture

The ARC on Mt Carmel, the Universal House of Justice, that did see the 'Glory of the Lord', that is Baha'u'llah.

Regards Tony