Featured Christ Has returned, what should have we looked for?

The failings of this order is clearly acknowledged by Baha’u’llah... and He states the reason.

The winds of despair are, alas, blowing from every direction, and the strife that divideth and afflicteth the human race is daily increasing. The signs of impending convulsions and chaos can now be discerned, inasmuch as the prevailing order appeareth to be lamentably defective.- Baha’u’llah

So He has given us a blueprint based on His laws and Teachings for creating a world civilization that will bring about true happiness to replace this one that brings only war and misery.

It involves transformation of the individual, the community and the foundation upon which society is governed. It seeks to create virtuous, upright people and a system based on justice and human rights to replace the current one based on greed which centres around materialism, consumerism and personal desire.

This is built into a new universal education system that is the catalyst to transform people from a life centred on selfishness and the gratification of personal desires to one of service to humanity and one of upright character and virtue.

The Baha’is are changing the world by changing themselves and developing a new way of living that invites true happiness and a culture free from the horrors and corruption of this moribund order.

As the contrast between the Baha’i World Community and the old order grows, it will become clearer and more apparent just how wonderful the plan of Baha’u’llah to rejuvenate the world is,

While we are small in number and not greatly visible, people tend to underestimate the true value of the teachings of Baha’u’llah which teaches the oneness of all humanity, that we are all one family not segregated or divided except by ourselves. The world is one planet and we are it’s people.

The only way we can change this world is by changing ourselves and by founding a society upon universal common values where all are welcome as equals and all can live without fear of prejudices of race, nationality, religion or gender.

The unification of humanity is the next stage of our development. We have evolved from the city, state to the nation.

The big step now is to ‘reconcile our differences’.

The Baha’i World Community has proven, by its very existence, that the differences plaguing humanity can be overcome and we can unite. We are living proof.

We are comprised of once conflicting creeds, nationalities, races, tribes and classes now united as one community, as one family.

Our foundation is love and harmony not consumerism or capitalism. We function through consultation not dictatorial authority. Every person is heard. Service to humanity and the betterment of humanity not the glorification of the self is our goal.

There exists no war amongst Baha’is, no conflicting party politics, our purpose is not profit or worldly power but to create a peaceful, loving world where we can all get along.

As I said. The Baha’i World Community is living proof that we can and are creating a new world civilization.

Let us judge for ourselves whether these teachings will lead to the betterment of humanity or not by quoting one of them here.

Be generous in prosperity, and thankful in adversity. Be worthy of the trust of thy neighbor, and look upon him with a bright and friendly face. Be a treasure to the poor, an admonisher to the rich, an answerer of the cry of the needy, a preserver of the sanctity of thy pledge. Be fair in thy judgment, and guarded in thy speech. Be unjust to no man, and show all meekness to all men. Be as a lamp unto them that walk in darkness, a joy to the sorrowful, a sea for the thirsty, a haven for the distressed, an upholder and defender of the victim of oppression. Let integrity and uprightness distinguish all thine acts. Be a home for the stranger, a balm to the suffering, a tower of strength for the fugitive. Be eyes to the blind, and a guiding light unto the feet of the erring. Be an ornament to the countenance of truth, a crown to the brow of fidelity, a pillar of the temple of righteousness, a breath of life to the body of mankind, an ensign of the hosts of justice, a luminary above the horizon of virtue, a dew to the soil of the human heart, an ark on the ocean of knowledge, a sun in the heaven of bounty, a gem on the diadem of wisdom, a shining light in the firmament of thy generation, a fruit upon the tree of humility.

 

NO! How many time I have to say this: The word "ullah" in baha-ullah or "allah", both in Arabic, was never in the bible or it does NOT translate into the "TRUE GOD" of the Bible, like Elohim, Jehovah, or Yahweh. IOW, the god of the shiite/baha'i faith and the sunni/muslim, aka, "ullah/allah" is NOT the same as the "TRUE GOD" of the Bible.

The koran had nothing to do with Christianity. Christianity believes in the God of Abraham, Isaac, and Jacob. Muhammad and bahaullah do not believe in the God of Abraham, Isaac, and Jacob.

Deuteronomy 6:4 "Hear, O Israel: Jehovah our God is one Jehovah:"

If you do a research on the word “ECHAD” you will find that Moses was a Trinitarian

John 1:1 In the beginning was the Word, and the Word was with God, and the Word was God.

If you do a research on the word “ECHAD” you will find that Moses was a Trinitarian

 

Jesus was a Messiah but He is not the Messiah of the latter days. All we need do is read some verses from Isaiah to know that Jesus did not do these things when He walked the earth. To say that Jesus will do them later belies what Jesus said about no longer being in the world, His work being finished here, and that His Kingdom not being of this world. Jesus never promised to come back to earth. He said we would see the Son of man coming in the clouds, but He was referring to Baha’u’llah, who was the return of the Son of man.

It is all right there in the New Testament. There is no reason to believe that the same man Jesus ever intended to come back after He ascended to the spiritual realm (heaven). “This same Jesus” referred to in Acts 1:11 is the same spirit of Jesus, not the same body. Baha’u’llah was the same spirit of Jesus, who descended from the heaven of the will of God.

2 Timothy 1:10 But is now made manifest by the appearing of our Saviour Jesus Christ, who hath abolished death, and hath brought life and immortality to light through the gospel:

This refers to spiritual death being abolished, not physical death. It refers to spiritual life and immortality of the soul that we get through Jesus.

John 5:25-29 Verily, verily, I say unto you, The hour is coming, and now is, when the dead shall hear the voice of the Son of God: and they that hear shall live. For as the Father hath life in himself; so hath he given to the Son to have life in himself; And hath given him authority to execute judgment also, because he is the Son of man. Marvel not at this: for the hour is coming, in the which all that are in the graves shall hear his voice, And shall come forth; they that have done good, unto the resurrection of life; and they that have done evil, unto the resurrection of damnation.

This means that the spiritually dead will hear His voice and they will have eternal life because the Father gave the Son the power to confer eternal life... The hour is coming when those who are spiritually dead (in the graves of ignorance) shall hear his voice.

The greatest delusion that has ever been perpetrated is that physical bodies were ever intended to be immortal, and that they will rise from graves. It flies in the face of reason and science and it results from a complete misapprehension of verses. All verses that refer to death being defeated are referring to spiritual death, not physical death. Anyone who believes that physical bodies will rise from graves and live in a restored Garden of Eden are living is a complete fantasy. When the body dies, the soul ascends to the spiritual world and takes on a new form that best befits its station. It gets a spiritual body made up of spiritual elements in the spiritual realm of existence. There is no way we can know what that is like until after we die.

The following verses are referring to a spiritual resurrection, spiritual life, not to physical life.

John 11:23-27 Jesus said to her, “Your brother will rise again.” Martha said to Him, “I know that he will rise again in the resurrection at the last day.” Jesus said to her, “I am the resurrection and the life. He who believes in Me, though he may die, he shall live. And whoever lives and believes in Me shall never die. Do you believe this?” She said to Him, “Yes, Lord, I believe that You are the Christ, the Son of God, who is to come into the world.”

Baha’u’llah concurs with Jesus... This is about spiritual life and spiritual death.

“Incline your ears to the sweet melody of this Prisoner. Arise, and lift up your voices, that haply they that are fast asleep may be awakened. Say: O ye who are as dead! The Hand of Divine bounty proffereth unto you the Water of Life. Hasten and drink your fill. Whoso hath been re-born in this Day, shall never die; whoso remaineth dead, shall never live.” Gleanings, p. 213

In short, Baha’is believe that those who have failed to recognize the return of the Christ Spirit, when it came in the Person of Baha’u’llah are spiritually dead, though they are still alive in a physical body. The shout has been raised and they turned away. The same was true for the Jews who failed to recognize Jesus when He came down from the heaven of the Will of God and was born from the womb of Mary, they remained spiritually dead.

“He is indeed as one dead who, at the wondrous dawn of this Revelation, hath failed to be quickened by its soul-stirring breeze. He is indeed a captive who hath not recognized the Supreme Redeemer, but hath suffered his soul to be bound, distressed and helpless, in the fetters of his desires.

O My servants! Whoso hath tasted of this Fountain hath attained unto everlasting Life, and whoso hath refused to drink therefrom is even as the dead.” Gleanings, p. 169

“According to the Bahá’í teaching the Resurrection has nothing to do with the gross physical body. That body, once dead, is done with. It becomes decomposed and its atoms will never be recomposed into the same body.

Resurrection is the birth of the individual to spiritual life, through the gift of the Holy Spirit bestowed through the Manifestation of God. The grave from which he arises is the grave of ignorance and negligence of God. The sleep from which he awakens is the dormant spiritual condition in which many await the dawn of the Day of God. This dawn illumines all who have lived on the face of the earth, whether they are in the body or out of the body, but those who are spiritually blind cannot perceive it. The Day of Resurrection is not a day of twenty-four hours, but an era which has now begun and will last as long as the present world cycle continues. It will continue when all traces of the present civilization will have been wiped off the surface of the globe.” Bahá’u’lláh and the New Era, p. 222

Isaiah 2:1-4, Isaiah 9:4-7, Isa 11:1-10, Ezekiel 34, Jeremiah 23, etc..
I read all those verses. There is nothing in those verses that says that world peace will come during the lifetime of the Messiah.

Jeremiah 31:34, Isaiah 11:9, Habakkuk 2:14, Isaiah 66:18, Zechariah 2:11, Isaiah 40:5, etc...
I read all those verses. There is nothing in those verses that says that says any of these things will happen during the lifetime of the Messiah. It’s just not there, not in any verses. I have been through this little exercise with some Jews on another forum – it is just not in the verses. It is an assumption that Jews have made, but it is not supported by the verses. Some of those events unfolded during the lifetime of Bahaullah, and the rest of them will unfold during the Messianic Age.

I asked for the verses because I wanted to see which verses YOU think support YOUR contentions. These verses are not straightforward. They are subject to different interpretations.

So you are a Prophet? Bible verses can be construed to mean many things. That is why Christians do not agree on what the Tribulation will be. Much of the Bible is symbolic and it is ALL a matter of interpretation.

Are you willing to reconsider your beliefs about physical death being eliminated and that physical bodies will live forever on earth? What if that data does not come from the Tanakh or the Bible but sheds light on it?

Then one has to ask – what is meant by being cleansed by the fire? Some Baha’is might downplay that but it is in the Writings of Baha’u’llah that the world will undergo a cleansing by the fire but nobody but God knows how that will play out. People think they know exactly how it will unfold by slapping verses together like ingredients of a recipe in a cookbook.

Looking at what the prophets revealed is a starting point but the problem is that what the prophets said was going to take place can be interpreted in many different ways, to mean many different things. That is why there is so much confusion and why Jews and Christians do not agree, and why even Christians do not agree among themselves. For example:

Isaiah 66:18 For I know their works and their thoughts: it shall come, that I will gather all nations and tongues; and they shall come, and see my glory.

How will He gather all nations and tongues and when will that happen? To me it means that all peoples and nations will be gathered together, united, and they will see the glory of the Messiah. It shall come that the world is united by virtue of the Revelation of Baha’u’llah, since that was the primary purpose of His mission.

“It is incumbent upon every man of insight and understanding to strive to translate that which hath been written into reality and action…. That one indeed is a man who, today, dedicateth himself to the service of the entire human race. The Great Being saith: Blessed and happy is he that ariseth to promote the best interests of the peoples and kindreds of the earth. In another passage He hath proclaimed: It is not for him to pride himself who loveth his own country, but rather for him who loveth the whole world. The earth is but one country, and mankind its citizens.” Gleanings From the Writings of Bahá’u’lláh, p. 250

 

More like an Arch Angel in human form, so God gives power of prophecy, and thus dreamed the Tribulation will happen in our lifetime, since like before 3 years old, as it was some of my earliest memories.

I'm willing to look at any perspective on things, find it all fascinating anyways...

Plus don't really have a belief on it, just systematically working through reading all the source material for it, and am open minded to possibilities.

I love that line, and some of the statements by Baha'i for world peace.

Does Baha'i predict angels to come before the day or others to come?

In my opinion.

 

Interesting. When I first became a Baha’i back in the early 1970s people talked a lot about the “calamities” but then that talk died down after a while, when nothing happened. Some of these things that could happen are in what we call Pilgrim Notes but they are not authoritative Baha’i writings so we cannot take them as factual.

I always hoped the calamities would just come because I am as ready as I will ever be.

Well, that sounds really positive. I have always been open-minded and I like to look at all different beliefs and non-beliefs. In the Baha’i Writings there is a lot written about the soul its function and what happens to it after we die but there are no details about what the spiritual world will be like or what we will be doing for all of eternity. What has been revealed concurs with what most people report in NDEs.

We believe that angels are in our midst since there is really no separation from this life and the next. We cannot see that world but they who have crossed over can see this world; those holy souls are the pure leaven that leaveneth this world of being... Angels are assisting us here as are the hosts of the Concourse on high.

“This is the Day whereon the All-Merciful hath come down in the clouds of knowledge, clothed with manifest sovereignty. He well knoweth the actions of men. He it is Whose glory none can mistake, could ye but comprehend it. The heaven of every religion hath been rent, and the earth of human understanding been cleft asunder, and the angels of God are seen descending. Say: This is the Day of mutual deceit; whither do ye flee? The mountains have passed away, and the heavens have been folded together, and the whole earth is held within His grasp, could ye but understand it. Who is it that can protect you? None, by Him Who is the All-Merciful! None, except God, the Almighty, the All-Glorious, the Beneficent. Every woman that hath had a burden in her womb hath cast her burden. We see men drunken in this Day, the Day in which men and angels have been gathered together.”
Gleanings From the Writings of Bahá’u’lláh, p. 45

“Let not your hearts be perturbed, O people, when the glory of My Presence is withdrawn, and the ocean of My utterance is stilled. In My presence amongst you there is a wisdom, and in My absence there is yet another, inscrutable to all but God, the Incomparable, the All-Knowing. Verily, We behold you from Our realm of glory, and shall aid whosoever will arise for the triumph of Our Cause with the hosts of the Concourse on high and a company of Our favored angels.”
Gleanings From the Writings of Bahá’u’lláh, p. 139

“Whatsoever people is graciously favoured therewith by God, its name shall surely be magnified and extolled by the Concourse from on high, by the company of angels, and the denizens of the Abhá Kingdom. And whatsoever people turneth its heart away from this Divine Love—the revelation of the Merciful—shall err grievously, shall fall into despair, and be utterly destroyed. That people shall be denied all refuge, shall become even as the vilest creatures of the earth, victims of degradation and shame.

O ye beloved of the Lord! Strive to become the manifestations of the love of God, the lamps of divine guidance shining amongst the kindreds of the earth with the light of love and concord.

All hail to the revealers of this glorious light!”
Selections From the Writings of ‘Abdu’l-Bahá, pp. 27-28

 

So, I guess angels are not only on the other side?

“And now, concerning His words: “And He shall send His angels….” By “angels” is meant those who, reinforced by the power of the spirit, have consumed, with the fire of the love of God, all human traits and limitations, and have clothed themselves with the attributes of the most exalted Beings and of the Cherubim. That holy man, Ṣádiq, 37 in his eulogy of the Cherubim, saith: “There stand a company of our fellow-Shí’ihs behind the Throne.” Divers and manifold are the interpretations of the words “behind the Throne.” In one sense, they indicate that no true Shí’ihs exist. Even as he hath said in another passage: “A true believer is likened unto the philosopher’s stone.” Addressing subsequently his listener, he saith: “Hast thou ever seen the philosopher’s stone?” Reflect, how this symbolic language, more eloquent than any speech, however direct, testifieth to the non-existence of a true believer. Such is the testimony of Ṣádiq. And now consider, how unfair and numerous are those who, although they themselves have failed to inhale the fragrance of belief, have condemned as infidels those by whose word belief itself is recognized and established.

And now, inasmuch as these holy beings have sanctified themselves from every human limitation, have become endowed with the attributes of the spiritual, and have been adorned with the noble traits of the blessed, they therefore have been designated as “angels.” Such is the meaning of these verses, every word of which hath been expounded by the aid of the most lucid texts, the most convincing arguments, and the best established evidences.”
The Kitáb-i-Íqán, pp. 78-80

 

You do not know a lot about my history with God ... If you did you would know one reason why I am not looking forward to the "afterlife." The other reason is that living forever is just not that appealing to me, no matter how grand it is... What am I going to be "doing" forever in some strange realm? I never got a brochure and there is no return ticket...

My husband and I have these "discussions" all the time... I am not sure where I am going will be all that grand, if nearness to God is the criteria for getting there.... but oh well, I believe in Baha'u'llah and one cannot blame the mailman for the One who runs the post office. Baha'u'llah did not ask to be God's Representative on earth, He just accepted the job.

And like my husband always says, there is nothing you can do to change reality... I will go to the afterlife whether I like it or not... All I can do is keep packing my spiritual bags for the trip and hope I will have what I need by liftoff...

 

But my skeletons are still hanging outside of the cupboard and falling onto the counter...
And it is kind of a deal-breaker if I do not learn to love God...

Well, at least I have that on my side.

Thanks... You just reminded me of something I had forgotten... I only have to worry about living forever until I die because when I get there I won't think about it like I do here since time does not exist in that dimension.... I won't be thinking, when is this going to be over?

No, I never did and I probably never will... I can barely get to the next town anymore. My husband went on Pilgrimage before we got married, back in 1972. My husband is old enough that he knew two of the Hands of the Cause personally, William Sears and Ugo Giachery.

I cry every time I watch the Mt. Carmel video... I cannot even imagine what I would do if I ever actually went on Pilgrimage.

 

Hi Tony,

You can also read about these Akka prophecies from a non Baha’i document by a Professor Kister from about page 47 of the pdf.

Here is the link

http://www.kister.huji.ac.il/sites/default/files/sanctity.pdf

A city distinguished by the most favorable utterances of the Prophet was 'Akka (Acre). Ibn Hajar al-'Asqalanf records the following utterance of the Prophet concerning 'Akka:

"There is a city between two mountains named 'Akka. If anyone enters it out of desire for it (raghbatan jfhii), God will forgive him his former and future sins. Anyone who turns away from 'Akka with aversion will not get God's blessing for going away from it. There is a well in 'Akka, named 'Ayn al-baqar; God will fill with light the inside space of anyone who drinks from it. Anyone who pours the water of this well upon himself will remain pure until the Day of Resurrection."
(P 47 Kister- above link)

 

I met William Sears in S. California where I was living in the early 70s... It was at a Buddhist Monastery in the desert as I recall. As I recall, my first books were Baha'u'llah and the New Era and Baha'i World Faith and Portals to Freedom.

Thanks... I never read that before. Are there some similarities between Christianity and the Baha'i Faith? I'll bet you were formerly a Christian... I never was but I am learning. Jesus is pretty cool...