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Featured Christ Has returned, what should have we looked for?

Discussion in 'Religious Debates' started by Tony Bristow-Stagg, Feb 26, 2018.

?
  1. Yes

    10 vote(s)
    17.2%
  2. No

    34 vote(s)
    58.6%
  3. Maybe

    1 vote(s)
    1.7%
  4. I'm Fence sitting

    2 vote(s)
    3.4%
  5. Just a popcorn question

    2 vote(s)
    3.4%
  6. Definitly never

    8 vote(s)
    13.8%
  7. He has Come

    10 vote(s)
    17.2%
Multiple votes are allowed.
  1. loverofhumanity

    loverofhumanity Well-Known Member
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    The failings of this order is clearly acknowledged by Baha’u’llah... and He states the reason.

    The winds of despair are, alas, blowing from every direction, and the strife that divideth and afflicteth the human race is daily increasing. The signs of impending convulsions and chaos can now be discerned, inasmuch as the prevailing order appeareth to be lamentably defective.- Baha’u’llah

    So He has given us a blueprint based on His laws and Teachings for creating a world civilization that will bring about true happiness to replace this one that brings only war and misery.

    It involves transformation of the individual, the community and the foundation upon which society is governed. It seeks to create virtuous, upright people and a system based on justice and human rights to replace the current one based on greed which centres around materialism, consumerism and personal desire.

    This is built into a new universal education system that is the catalyst to transform people from a life centred on selfishness and the gratification of personal desires to one of service to humanity and one of upright character and virtue.

    The Baha’is are changing the world by changing themselves and developing a new way of living that invites true happiness and a culture free from the horrors and corruption of this moribund order.

    As the contrast between the Baha’i World Community and the old order grows, it will become clearer and more apparent just how wonderful the plan of Baha’u’llah to rejuvenate the world is,

    While we are small in number and not greatly visible, people tend to underestimate the true value of the teachings of Baha’u’llah which teaches the oneness of all humanity, that we are all one family not segregated or divided except by ourselves. The world is one planet and we are it’s people.

    The only way we can change this world is by changing ourselves and by founding a society upon universal common values where all are welcome as equals and all can live without fear of prejudices of race, nationality, religion or gender.

    The unification of humanity is the next stage of our development. We have evolved from the city, state to the nation.

    The big step now is to ‘reconcile our differences’.

    The Baha’i World Community has proven, by its very existence, that the differences plaguing humanity can be overcome and we can unite. We are living proof.

    We are comprised of once conflicting creeds, nationalities, races, tribes and classes now united as one community, as one family.

    Our foundation is love and harmony not consumerism or capitalism. We function through consultation not dictatorial authority. Every person is heard. Service to humanity and the betterment of humanity not the glorification of the self is our goal.

    There exists no war amongst Baha’is, no conflicting party politics, our purpose is not profit or worldly power but to create a peaceful, loving world where we can all get along.

    As I said. The Baha’i World Community is living proof that we can and are creating a new world civilization.

    Let us judge for ourselves whether these teachings will lead to the betterment of humanity or not by quoting one of them here.

    Be generous in prosperity, and thankful in adversity. Be worthy of the trust of thy neighbor, and look upon him with a bright and friendly face. Be a treasure to the poor, an admonisher to the rich, an answerer of the cry of the needy, a preserver of the sanctity of thy pledge. Be fair in thy judgment, and guarded in thy speech. Be unjust to no man, and show all meekness to all men. Be as a lamp unto them that walk in darkness, a joy to the sorrowful, a sea for the thirsty, a haven for the distressed, an upholder and defender of the victim of oppression. Let integrity and uprightness distinguish all thine acts. Be a home for the stranger, a balm to the suffering, a tower of strength for the fugitive. Be eyes to the blind, and a guiding light unto the feet of the erring. Be an ornament to the countenance of truth, a crown to the brow of fidelity, a pillar of the temple of righteousness, a breath of life to the body of mankind, an ensign of the hosts of justice, a luminary above the horizon of virtue, a dew to the soil of the human heart, an ark on the ocean of knowledge, a sun in the heaven of bounty, a gem on the diadem of wisdom, a shining light in the firmament of thy generation, a fruit upon the tree of humility.
     
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  2. Tony Bristow-Stagg

    Tony Bristow-Stagg One Planet One People Please
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    What Baha'u'llah has told us opens up a world of new understanding on this subject. Baha'u'llah is all the Prophets, Baha'u'llah is all Gods Names. 'Glory of God' (Baha'u'llah) is Jehovah, the Greatest Name.

    The Koran was given by Muhammad to correct the thoughts that Christianity had built about the relationship between Jesus, Christ (Holy Spirit) and God

    “Indeed, We sent Nuh (Noah) to his people, and he said: “O my people! Worship Allah! You have no other Ilah (God) but Him. Certainly, I fear for you the torment of a Great Day!” [Al-A’raf 7: 59]

    "People of the Book, do not go to excess in your religion, and do not say anything about God except the truth: the Messiah, Jesus, son of Mary, was nothing more than a messenger of God, His word, directed to Mary, a spirit from Him. So believe in God and His messengers and do not speak of a 'Trinity'—stop, that is better for you—God is only one God, He is far above having a son, everything in the heavens and earth belongs to Him and He is the best one to trust." — Qur'an, sura 4 (An-Nisa), ayat 171[3]

    "Those who say, "God is the Messiah, son of Mary," have defied God. The Messiah himself said; "Children of Israel, worship God, my Lord and your Lord." If anyone associates others with God, God will forbid him from the Garden, and Hell will be his home. No one will help such evildoers. Those people who say that God is the third of three are defying [the truth]: there is only One God. If they persist in what they are saying, a painful punishment will afflict those of them who persist. Why do they not turn to God and ask his forgiveness, when God is most forgiving, most merciful? The Messiah, son of Mary, was only a messenger; other messengers had come and gone before him; his mother was a virtuous woman; both ate food. See how clear We make these signs for them; see how deluded they are." — Qur'an, sura 5 (Al-Ma'ida), ayat 72-75[4]

    The torment spoken of here in the first quote, to me is this 'Day of God', a day when all peoples who thought they were safe in their belief, suddenly find they were greatly mistaken.

    The Bible gives us a hint of what this 'Day of God' means,

    19. Zechariah 14:9 — "And the LORD shall be king over all the earth: in that day shall there be one Lord, and his name one."

    Baha'u'llah has told us that God is beyond knowledge, even the Messengers do not know the Essence of God and as such God is above all Names and is not restricted to any Names. All names given from God in the Past have pointed us to this day, all Names culminate in the Message of Baha'u'llah.

    Thus all the Messages all the Holy books point to this day and the Message of Baha'u'llah. It is no surprise that this is hard for us to grasp. the Bible does hint to this oneness;

    20. Mark 12:29-34 —And Jesus answered him, The first of all the commandments is, Hear, O Israel; The Lord our God is one Lord: And thou shalt love the Lord thy God with all thy heart, and with all thy soul, and with all thy mind, and with all thy strength: this is the first commandment. And the second is like, namely this, thou shalt love thy neighbor as thyself. There is none other commandment greater than these. And the scribe said unto him, Well, Master, thou hast said the truth: for there is one God; and there is none other but he: And to love him with all the heart, and with all the understanding, and with all the soul, and with all the strength, and to love his neighbor as himself, is more than all whole burnt offerings and sacrifices. And when Jesus saw that he answered discreetly, he said unto him, Thou art not far from the kingdom of God. And no man after that durst ask him any question."

    Every prophecy from any Holy Book will find an explanation in Baha'u'llah. That this can be done, becomes a Mathematical number of unperceivable size, that it is mere chance this can be so.

    This is testable and people have done this and written books about it.

    Regards Tony
     
    #342 Tony Bristow-Stagg, Mar 5, 2018
    Last edited: Mar 5, 2018
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  3. Neb

    Neb Active Member

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    NO! How many time I have to say this: The word "ullah" in baha-ullah or "allah", both in Arabic, was never in the bible or it does NOT translate into the "TRUE GOD" of the Bible, like Elohim, Jehovah, or Yahweh. IOW, the god of the shiite/baha'i faith and the sunni/muslim, aka, "ullah/allah" is NOT the same as the "TRUE GOD" of the Bible.

    The koran had nothing to do with Christianity. Christianity believes in the God of Abraham, Isaac, and Jacob. Muhammad and bahaullah do not believe in the God of Abraham, Isaac, and Jacob.

    Deuteronomy 6:4 "Hear, O Israel: Jehovah our God is one Jehovah:"

    If you do a research on the word “ECHAD” you will find that Moses was a Trinitarian

    John 1:1 In the beginning was the Word, and the Word was with God, and the Word was God.
    If you do a research on the word “ECHAD” you will find that Moses was a Trinitarian
     
  4. Tony Bristow-Stagg

    Tony Bristow-Stagg One Planet One People Please
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    If we look at the History of Faith in God, you will note the Message takes hold of hearts one person at a time. There is no overnight solution, as we have free will to accept of reject the new Message from God.

    As man turns further away from god and Gods given laws, the greater becomes the longing of the heart to return to the Morals and Principals that we have within us all. It is our feeding of self over God that takes Humanity away from all that is good.

    There is a great percentage of the world now wanting peace and security for all. The Principals that Baha'u'llah has given in His Message have permeated the hearts of Humanity. The minority that control the affairs of men (apart from a few of them) are those still feeding the direction of Humanity away from God. The time will approach where this folly becomes apparent and events will dramatically change the fortunes of Humanity as a whole. At that time all will know that God and His Laws are the only way.

    Regards Tony
     
  5. Tony Bristow-Stagg

    Tony Bristow-Stagg One Planet One People Please
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    We have to consider language, as Jesus is Also NOT in the Bible if we use this argument,

    Baha'u'llah is Arabic and in English means 'Glory of God' or 'Glory of the Lord'. Read the Bible and we will see that Baha'u'llah is all the way through the Bible.

    It is a fact that some Arabic translations of the Bible did have Baha'u'llah written in them. These Bibles were removed after the Message of Baha'u'llah became known.

    I quotes E.G. Browne: "while in the oldest Arabic versions of the New Testament the words "The Glory of God "in Revelation xxi, 23, are rendered as Bahá'u'lláh in the later version published at Beyrout in 1882 this expression had (purposely, he declared, to darken men's understanding) been repllaced by majdallah.

    Khazeh Fananapazir has provided an interesting brief essay illustrating how the name of Baha'u'llah was found in Arabic Bibles around 1833 and 1858, a link to this and a copy of these bibles - Khazeh Fananapazir - Provisional Translations and Papers


    The Revelation of Muhammad is foretold in Daniel and revelation. Chapters 11 and 12 of Revelation contain a lot of Information about the Message of Muhammad that would last 1260 years, to which it did.

    Both the Koran and the Baha'i Writings Testify to all Gods Messengers. You need to be just and find this for your own self.

    Yes One God in His many names, culminating in the Greatest Name. Those with ears let them hear what the Spirit says to the Churches. There is no trinity doctrine, though there are 3 aspects. God. Holy Spirit. Messenger.

    Yes the Word is Baha'u'llah, it is all the Names of God. It is Jehovah, Allah, Buddha, Moses, Abraham, Krishna, Muhammad ....etc.

    All those names have a Meaning, those meanings find the Oneness in Baha'u'llah. This is the God we can know, it is the God of Attributes and not God in Essence.

    Regards Tony
     
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  6. Trailblazer

    Trailblazer Veteran Member

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    Jesus was a Messiah but He is not the Messiah of the latter days. All we need do is read some verses from Isaiah to know that Jesus did not do these things when He walked the earth. To say that Jesus will do them later belies what Jesus said about no longer being in the world, His work being finished here, and that His Kingdom not being of this world. Jesus never promised to come back to earth. He said we would see the Son of man coming in the clouds, but He was referring to Baha’u’llah, who was the return of the Son of man.

    It is all right there in the New Testament. There is no reason to believe that the same man Jesus ever intended to come back after He ascended to the spiritual realm (heaven). “This same Jesus” referred to in Acts 1:11 is the same spirit of Jesus, not the same body. Baha’u’llah was the same spirit of Jesus, who descended from the heaven of the will of God.
    2 Timothy 1:10 But is now made manifest by the appearing of our Saviour Jesus Christ, who hath abolished death, and hath brought life and immortality to light through the gospel:

    This refers to spiritual death being abolished, not physical death. It refers to spiritual life and immortality of the soul that we get through Jesus.

    John 5:25-29 Verily, verily, I say unto you, The hour is coming, and now is, when the dead shall hear the voice of the Son of God: and they that hear shall live. For as the Father hath life in himself; so hath he given to the Son to have life in himself; And hath given him authority to execute judgment also, because he is the Son of man. Marvel not at this: for the hour is coming, in the which all that are in the graves shall hear his voice, And shall come forth; they that have done good, unto the resurrection of life; and they that have done evil, unto the resurrection of damnation.

    This means that the spiritually dead will hear His voice and they will have eternal life because the Father gave the Son the power to confer eternal life... The hour is coming when those who are spiritually dead (in the graves of ignorance) shall hear his voice.

    The greatest delusion that has ever been perpetrated is that physical bodies were ever intended to be immortal, and that they will rise from graves. It flies in the face of reason and science and it results from a complete misapprehension of verses. All verses that refer to death being defeated are referring to spiritual death, not physical death. Anyone who believes that physical bodies will rise from graves and live in a restored Garden of Eden are living is a complete fantasy. When the body dies, the soul ascends to the spiritual world and takes on a new form that best befits its station. It gets a spiritual body made up of spiritual elements in the spiritual realm of existence. There is no way we can know what that is like until after we die.

    The following verses are referring to a spiritual resurrection, spiritual life, not to physical life.

    John 11:23-27 Jesus said to her, “Your brother will rise again.” Martha said to Him, “I know that he will rise again in the resurrection at the last day.” Jesus said to her, “I am the resurrection and the life. He who believes in Me, though he may die, he shall live. And whoever lives and believes in Me shall never die. Do you believe this?” She said to Him, “Yes, Lord, I believe that You are the Christ, the Son of God, who is to come into the world.”

    Baha’u’llah concurs with Jesus... This is about spiritual life and spiritual death.

    “Incline your ears to the sweet melody of this Prisoner. Arise, and lift up your voices, that haply they that are fast asleep may be awakened. Say: O ye who are as dead! The Hand of Divine bounty proffereth unto you the Water of Life. Hasten and drink your fill. Whoso hath been re-born in this Day, shall never die; whoso remaineth dead, shall never live.” Gleanings, p. 213

    In short, Baha’is believe that those who have failed to recognize the return of the Christ Spirit, when it came in the Person of Baha’u’llah are spiritually dead, though they are still alive in a physical body. The shout has been raised and they turned away. The same was true for the Jews who failed to recognize Jesus when He came down from the heaven of the Will of God and was born from the womb of Mary, they remained spiritually dead.

    “He is indeed as one dead who, at the wondrous dawn of this Revelation, hath failed to be quickened by its soul-stirring breeze. He is indeed a captive who hath not recognized the Supreme Redeemer, but hath suffered his soul to be bound, distressed and helpless, in the fetters of his desires.

    O My servants! Whoso hath tasted of this Fountain hath attained unto everlasting Life, and whoso hath refused to drink therefrom is even as the dead.” Gleanings, p. 169


    “According to the Bahá’í teaching the Resurrection has nothing to do with the gross physical body. That body, once dead, is done with. It becomes decomposed and its atoms will never be recomposed into the same body.

    Resurrection is the birth of the individual to spiritual life, through the gift of the Holy Spirit bestowed through the Manifestation of God. The grave from which he arises is the grave of ignorance and negligence of God. The sleep from which he awakens is the dormant spiritual condition in which many await the dawn of the Day of God. This dawn illumines all who have lived on the face of the earth, whether they are in the body or out of the body, but those who are spiritually blind cannot perceive it. The Day of Resurrection is not a day of twenty-four hours, but an era which has now begun and will last as long as the present world cycle continues. It will continue when all traces of the present civilization will have been wiped off the surface of the globe.”
    Bahá’u’lláh and the New Era, p. 222

    Isaiah 2:1-4, Isaiah 9:4-7, Isa 11:1-10, Ezekiel 34, Jeremiah 23, etc..
    I read all those verses. There is nothing in those verses that says that world peace will come during the lifetime of the Messiah.

    Jeremiah 31:34, Isaiah 11:9, Habakkuk 2:14, Isaiah 66:18, Zechariah 2:11, Isaiah 40:5, etc...
    I read all those verses. There is nothing in those verses that says that says any of these things will happen during the lifetime of the Messiah. It’s just not there, not in any verses. I have been through this little exercise with some Jews on another forum – it is just not in the verses. It is an assumption that Jews have made, but it is not supported by the verses. Some of those events unfolded during the lifetime of Bahaullah, and the rest of them will unfold during the Messianic Age.

    I asked for the verses because I wanted to see which verses YOU think support YOUR contentions. These verses are not straightforward. They are subject to different interpretations.

    So you are a Prophet? Bible verses can be construed to mean many things. That is why Christians do not agree on what the Tribulation will be. Much of the Bible is symbolic and it is ALL a matter of interpretation.
    Are you willing to reconsider your beliefs about physical death being eliminated and that physical bodies will live forever on earth? What if that data does not come from the Tanakh or the Bible but sheds light on it?
    Then one has to ask – what is meant by being cleansed by the fire? Some Baha’is might downplay that but it is in the Writings of Baha’u’llah that the world will undergo a cleansing by the fire but nobody but God knows how that will play out. People think they know exactly how it will unfold by slapping verses together like ingredients of a recipe in a cookbook.

    Looking at what the prophets revealed is a starting point but the problem is that what the prophets said was going to take place can be interpreted in many different ways, to mean many different things. That is why there is so much confusion and why Jews and Christians do not agree, and why even Christians do not agree among themselves. For example:

    Isaiah 66:18 For I know their works and their thoughts: it shall come, that I will gather all nations and tongues; and they shall come, and see my glory.

    How will He gather all nations and tongues and when will that happen? To me it means that all peoples and nations will be gathered together, united, and they will see the glory of the Messiah. It shall come that the world is united by virtue of the Revelation of Baha’u’llah, since that was the primary purpose of His mission.

    “It is incumbent upon every man of insight and understanding to strive to translate that which hath been written into reality and action…. That one indeed is a man who, today, dedicateth himself to the service of the entire human race. The Great Being saith: Blessed and happy is he that ariseth to promote the best interests of the peoples and kindreds of the earth. In another passage He hath proclaimed: It is not for him to pride himself who loveth his own country, but rather for him who loveth the whole world. The earth is but one country, and mankind its citizens.” Gleanings From the Writings of Bahá’u’lláh, p. 250
     
  7. wizanda

    wizanda One Accepts All Religious Texts
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    More like an Arch Angel in human form, so God gives power of prophecy, and thus dreamed the Tribulation will happen in our lifetime, since like before 3 years old, as it was some of my earliest memories.
    I'm willing to look at any perspective on things, find it all fascinating anyways...

    Plus don't really have a belief on it, just systematically working through reading all the source material for it, and am open minded to possibilities.
    I love that line, and some of the statements by Baha'i for world peace.

    Does Baha'i predict angels to come before the day or others to come?

    In my opinion. :innocent:
     
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  8. Tony Bristow-Stagg

    Tony Bristow-Stagg One Planet One People Please
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    In the Baha'i Writings Angels are detached souls.

    "By angels is meant the divine confirmations and heavenly powers. Angels are also those holy souls who have severed attachment to the earthly world, who are free from the fetters of self and passion and who have attached their hearts to the divine realm and the merciful kingdom. They are of the kingdom, heavenly; they are of the merciful One, divine. They are the manifestations of the divine grace and the dawns of spiritual bounty."

    (Abdu'l-Baha, Baha'i World Faith - Abdu'l-Baha Section, p. 409)

    YE ARE THE ANGELS

    "......O people of loyalty, O people of faithfulness, O people who are awakened by the Breath of God, O people who are inhaling the scent of life from the Spirit of God! The path hath become smooth, the way straightened, the carpet of the Kingdom is spread, the Tabernacle hath been elevated upon the Hill of Might, the powers of heaven have been shaken, the corners of the earth have quaked, the sun has been darkened, the moon ceased to give light, the stars have fallen, the nations of the earth have lamented, and the Son of Man hath come upon the clouds of heaven with power and great glory, and He hath sent His angels with the sound of the great trumpet, and no one knows the meaning of these emblems save the wise and informed.

    "Ye are the angels, if your feet be firm, your spirits rejoiced, your secret thoughts pure, your eyes consoled, your ears opened, your breasts dilated with joy, and your souls gladdened, and if you arise to assist the Covenant, to resist dissension and to be attracted to the Effulgence! Verily, I say unto you that the Word of God has assuredly been explained and has become an evident sign and a strong and solid proof, and its traces shall be spread in the East and West, and to these all heads shall bow and all souls shall submit and kneel down with their faces to the ground."

    (Abdu'l-Baha, Baha'i World Faith - Abdu'l-Baha Section, p. 359)

    I believe people do have special events in their life which all they need to do is find the source, then all the thoughts fall into place.

    Regards Tony
     
  9. Tony Bristow-Stagg

    Tony Bristow-Stagg One Planet One People Please
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    Baha'u'llah has said since mankind has rejected the Most Great Peace, there will be more tribulation;

    "The world is in travail, and its agitation waxeth day by day. Its face is turned towards waywardness and unbelief. Such shall be its plight, that to disclose it now would not be meet and seemly. Its perversity will long continue. And when the appointed hour is come, there shall suddenly appear that which shall cause the limbs of mankind to quake. Then, and only then, will the Divine Standard be unfurled, and the Nightingale of Paradise warble its melody."

    It could be that this is not to far away, there is a few signs that will accompany this which we are yet to see on the expected scale. I see many signs that were recorded in the Baha'i Writings that do indicate great change is not that far away.

    Regards Tony
     
  10. Trailblazer

    Trailblazer Veteran Member

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    Interesting. When I first became a Baha’i back in the early 1970s people talked a lot about the “calamities” but then that talk died down after a while, when nothing happened. Some of these things that could happen are in what we call Pilgrim Notes but they are not authoritative Baha’i writings so we cannot take them as factual.

    I always hoped the calamities would just come because I am as ready as I will ever be.
    Well, that sounds really positive. I have always been open-minded and I like to look at all different beliefs and non-beliefs. In the Baha’i Writings there is a lot written about the soul its function and what happens to it after we die but there are no details about what the spiritual world will be like or what we will be doing for all of eternity. What has been revealed concurs with what most people report in NDEs.
    We believe that angels are in our midst since there is really no separation from this life and the next. We cannot see that world but they who have crossed over can see this world; those holy souls are the pure leaven that leaveneth this world of being... Angels are assisting us here as are the hosts of the Concourse on high.

    “This is the Day whereon the All-Merciful hath come down in the clouds of knowledge, clothed with manifest sovereignty. He well knoweth the actions of men. He it is Whose glory none can mistake, could ye but comprehend it. The heaven of every religion hath been rent, and the earth of human understanding been cleft asunder, and the angels of God are seen descending. Say: This is the Day of mutual deceit; whither do ye flee? The mountains have passed away, and the heavens have been folded together, and the whole earth is held within His grasp, could ye but understand it. Who is it that can protect you? None, by Him Who is the All-Merciful! None, except God, the Almighty, the All-Glorious, the Beneficent. Every woman that hath had a burden in her womb hath cast her burden. We see men drunken in this Day, the Day in which men and angels have been gathered together.”
    Gleanings From the Writings of Bahá’u’lláh, p. 45

    “Let not your hearts be perturbed, O people, when the glory of My Presence is withdrawn, and the ocean of My utterance is stilled. In My presence amongst you there is a wisdom, and in My absence there is yet another, inscrutable to all but God, the Incomparable, the All-Knowing. Verily, We behold you from Our realm of glory, and shall aid whosoever will arise for the triumph of Our Cause with the hosts of the Concourse on high and a company of Our favored angels.”
    Gleanings From the Writings of Bahá’u’lláh, p. 139

    “Whatsoever people is graciously favoured therewith by God, its name shall surely be magnified and extolled by the Concourse from on high, by the company of angels, and the denizens of the Abhá Kingdom. And whatsoever people turneth its heart away from this Divine Love—the revelation of the Merciful—shall err grievously, shall fall into despair, and be utterly destroyed. That people shall be denied all refuge, shall become even as the vilest creatures of the earth, victims of degradation and shame.

    O ye beloved of the Lord! Strive to become the manifestations of the love of God, the lamps of divine guidance shining amongst the kindreds of the earth with the light of love and concord.

    All hail to the revealers of this glorious light!”
    Selections From the Writings of ‘Abdu’l-Bahá, pp. 27-28
     
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  11. Trailblazer

    Trailblazer Veteran Member

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    So, I guess angels are not only on the other side?

    “And now, concerning His words: “And He shall send His angels….” By “angels” is meant those who, reinforced by the power of the spirit, have consumed, with the fire of the love of God, all human traits and limitations, and have clothed themselves with the attributes of the most exalted Beings and of the Cherubim. That holy man, Ṣádiq, 37 in his eulogy of the Cherubim, saith: “There stand a company of our fellow-Shí’ihs behind the Throne.” Divers and manifold are the interpretations of the words “behind the Throne.” In one sense, they indicate that no true Shí’ihs exist. Even as he hath said in another passage: “A true believer is likened unto the philosopher’s stone.” Addressing subsequently his listener, he saith: “Hast thou ever seen the philosopher’s stone?” Reflect, how this symbolic language, more eloquent than any speech, however direct, testifieth to the non-existence of a true believer. Such is the testimony of Ṣádiq. And now consider, how unfair and numerous are those who, although they themselves have failed to inhale the fragrance of belief, have condemned as infidels those by whose word belief itself is recognized and established.

    And now, inasmuch as these holy beings have sanctified themselves from every human limitation, have become endowed with the attributes of the spiritual, and have been adorned with the noble traits of the blessed, they therefore have been designated as “angels.” Such is the meaning of these verses, every word of which hath been expounded by the aid of the most lucid texts, the most convincing arguments, and the best established evidences.”
    The Kitáb-i-Íqán, pp. 78-80
     
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  12. Tony Bristow-Stagg

    Tony Bristow-Stagg One Planet One People Please
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    As you said in a post above, there is no real seperation. Angels is a state of being.

    I would say the Concourse on High is a gathering of the Holy Souls, the Angels that have passed onto the next life.

    But really we do not know, it ill be far grander than anything I can Imagine. Many have been there with NDE experiences say there is no words to describe what it will be. They say even giving analogies fall far short of what their heart shows them.

    I do not have any experinces of this, so basically I just love the life given and let be what will be. One just have to give this life to all Humanity, little by little day by day! :)

    Regards Tony
     
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  13. Trailblazer

    Trailblazer Veteran Member

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    You do not know a lot about my history with God :(... If you did you would know one reason why I am not looking forward to the "afterlife." The other reason is that living forever is just not that appealing to me, no matter how grand it is... What am I going to be "doing" forever in some strange realm? I never got a brochure and there is no return ticket... :oops:

    My husband and I have these "discussions" all the time... I am not sure where I am going will be all that grand, if nearness to God is the criteria for getting there.... but oh well, I believe in Baha'u'llah and one cannot blame the mailman for the One who runs the post office. ;) Baha'u'llah did not ask to be God's Representative on earth, He just accepted the job.

    And like my husband always says, there is nothing you can do to change reality... I will go to the afterlife whether I like it or not... All I can do is keep packing my spiritual bags for the trip and hope I will have what I need by liftoff... :rolleyes:
     
  14. Tony Bristow-Stagg

    Tony Bristow-Stagg One Planet One People Please
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    That is what it is all about. Do not dwell too much on the past, it can not be changed, but we must try to learn from it and we work to correct our mistakes.

    You are not alone, you know ;) we all have skeletons in our cupboard.

    The Message of Baha'u'llah becomes the standard we are judged by, that you have accepted is what Christ said is the New Birth.

    Personally I think time will not be a part of the next life, it will not need to be considered.

    Did you go on Pilgrimage yet, my wife and I will go in December this year?

    Regards Tony
     
  15. Trailblazer

    Trailblazer Veteran Member

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    But my skeletons are still hanging outside of the cupboard and falling onto the counter...
    And it is kind of a deal-breaker if I do not learn to love God... :rolleyes:
    Well, at least I have that on my side. :)
    Thanks... You just reminded me of something I had forgotten... I only have to worry about living forever until I die because when I get there I won't think about it like I do here since time does not exist in that dimension.... I won't be thinking, when is this going to be over? :(
    No, I never did and I probably never will... I can barely get to the next town anymore. ;) My husband went on Pilgrimage before we got married, back in 1972. My husband is old enough that he knew two of the Hands of the Cause personally, William Sears and Ugo Giachery.

    I cry every time I watch the Mt. Carmel video... I cannot even imagine what I would do if I ever actually went on Pilgrimage. :eek:
     
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  16. Tony Bristow-Stagg

    Tony Bristow-Stagg One Planet One People Please
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    It was the book 'God Loves Laughter' that helped me accept Baha'u'llah, then 'Thief in the Night'. Thus William Sears was my teacher.

    All I can say, try to go at least once and read the traditions about Akka.

    This time I will carry out those traditions :);)

    "8. The Apostle of God - may the blessings of God and His salutations be upon Him - hath also said: "He that looketh upon the sea at eventide, and saith: 'God is Most Great!' at sunset, God will forgive his sins, though they be heaped as piles of sand. And he that counteth forty waves, while repeating: 'God is Most Great!' - exalted be He - God will forgive his sins, both past and future."

    Akka Traditions (hadith) in the Epistle to the Son of the Wolf

    Regards Tony
     
  17. loverofhumanity

    loverofhumanity Well-Known Member
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    Hi Tony,

    You can also read about these Akka prophecies from a non Baha’i document by a Professor Kister from about page 47 of the pdf.

    Here is the link

    http://www.kister.huji.ac.il/sites/default/files/sanctity.pdf

    A city distinguished by the most favorable utterances of the Prophet was 'Akka (Acre). Ibn Hajar al-'Asqalanf records the following utterance of the Prophet concerning 'Akka:

    "There is a city between two mountains named 'Akka. If anyone enters it out of desire for it (raghbatan jfhii), God will forgive him his former and future sins. Anyone who turns away from 'Akka with aversion will not get God's blessing for going away from it. There is a well in 'Akka, named 'Ayn al-baqar; God will fill with light the inside space of anyone who drinks from it. Anyone who pours the water of this well upon himself will remain pure until the Day of Resurrection."
    (P 47 Kister- above link)
     
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  18. Trailblazer

    Trailblazer Veteran Member

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    I met William Sears in S. California where I was living in the early 70s... It was at a Buddhist Monastery in the desert as I recall. As I recall, my first books were Baha'u'llah and the New Era and Baha'i World Faith and Portals to Freedom.
    Thanks... I never read that before. Are there some similarities between Christianity and the Baha'i Faith? :) I'll bet you were formerly a Christian... I never was but I am learning. Jesus is pretty cool... :cool:
     
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  19. Tony Bristow-Stagg

    Tony Bristow-Stagg One Planet One People Please
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    I only went to a few sunday school classes when a child, which maybe a few song lines can be remembered.

    I had no Faith that I can remember and was not looking at the time the Baha'i Faith came our way. Strange how one finds Faith.

    I was amazed at 'Thief in the Night', I thought I got to show this to my Christian Mother, after all it showed without doubt Christ had returned.

    My mother would no read it! Go figure? She still would not too. ;)

    Regards Tony
     
  20. Tony Bristow-Stagg

    Tony Bristow-Stagg One Planet One People Please
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    Keys to unlock the Bible and in Understanding Bible Prophecy

    Bible passages for a 30 day month and 360 day year

    In Genesis we are told that the flood of Noah began on the 17th day of the 2nd month. (Gen.7:11) On that day the "fountains of the deep were broken up and the windows of heaven were opened". Exactly five months later on the 17th day of the 7th month "the flood-waters receded and the ark came to rest on Mount Ararat". This five month span of time is stated twice in Genesis to be 150 days. (Gen.7:24 and 8:3)

    150 divided by 5 = 30 days. 30 times 12 = 360 day Year.

    The book of Esther (1: 4) indicates the same 360-day length of year by recording the six-month-long feast of Xerxes as continuing exactly 180 days.

    Each Day is appointed a Year

    Numbers 14:33-34 (KJV)
    33 And your children shall wander in the wilderness forty years, and bear your whoredoms, until your carcases be wasted in the wilderness.

    34 After the number of the days in which ye searched the land, even forty days, each day for a year, shall ye bear your iniquities, even forty years, and ye shall know my breach of promise.

    Ezekiel 4:4-6 (KJV)

    4 Lie thou also upon thy left side, and lay the iniquity of the house of Israel upon it: according to the number of the days that thou shalt lie upon it thou shalt bear their iniquity. 5 For I have laid upon thee the years of their iniquity, according to the number of the days, three hundred and ninety days: so shalt thou bear the iniquity of the house of Israel.6 And when thou hast accomplished them, lie again on thy right side, and thou shalt bear the iniquity of the house of Judah forty days: I have appointed thee each day for a year.

    Starting Date to prove the coming of Christ (BC457)

    There were four decrees given in regards to rebuilding Jerusalem. The first was by Cyrus, the king of Persia, in 538 B.C. The second was by Darius 1 Hystapes of Persia about 519 B.C., basically confiming Cyrus’ decree. The third was by Artaxerxes king of Persia in 457 B.C. in his 7th year and the fourth was also by Artaxerxes in his 20th year.

    The first two decrees only authorized the rebuilding of the temple. The third decree was the most comprehesive and authorized the rebuilding of the city of Jerusalem. This decree also authorized the appointed of magistrates, judges, and reestablished Jewish laws as the base of government and gave the Jewish nation more sovereignty. The fourth decree given to Nehemiah in Artaxerxes 20th year helped to fulfill the decree given to Ezra in 457 B.C. The third decree with its comprehensive nature, including the allowance of full autonomy to the Jews, the reestablishment of Jewish laws and sovereignty, is the only decree that fits exactly into the prophecy of Daniel 9.

    The dates for the decrees of Artaxerxes are well known and historically secure by four lines of evidence. (1) Greek historians, (2) Ptolemy’s Canon, (3) The Babylonian business tablets, and (4) The Elephantine papyri from Egypt.

    70 Weeks = 490 Days = 490 years

    Daniel 9: 24-27 states, “Seventy weeks are determined upon thy people and upon thy holy city, to finish the transgression, and to make an end of sins, and to make reconciliation for iniquity, and to bring in everlasting righteousness, and to seal up the vision and prophecy, and to anoint the most Holy

    490 – 457 = 33 = Christs Age at start of His Mission.

    END TIMES told in Daniel 2300 Years

    Daniel 8:14 He said to me, "It will take 2,300 evenings and mornings; then the sanctuary will be reconsecrated."

    2300 Days = 2300 Years

    -457 + 2300 = 1833 + 1 (as no year zero) = 1844

    The Time of 1260

    1. DANIEL 7:25He shall speak great words against the Most High, and shall wear out the saints of the Most High, and think to change times and laws -- and they shall be given into his hands until a time and times and the dividing of a time.

    2. DANIEL 12:7It shall be for a time, times, and half a time that he can scatter the power of the holy people.

    3. REVELATION 11:2The holy city they tread under foot forty and two months.

    4. REVELATION 11:3And I will give power unto my two witnesses, and they shall prophecy a thousand two hundred and sixty days, clothed in sackcloth.

    5. REVELATION 12:6And the woman fled into the wilderness, where she hath a place prepared by God, that they should feed her there a thousand two hundred and sixty days.

    6. REVELATION 12:14And the woman was given wings of a great eagle, that she might fly into the wildneress, where she is nourished for a time, and times, and half a time, from the face of the serpent.

    7. REVELATION 13:5And there was given to the beast a mouth speaking great things and blasphemies, and power was given to him to continue fourty and two months.

    Times time and half a time = 3 ½ Years

    3 ½ Years = 42 Months

    42 Months = 1260 days

    1260 Days = 1260 Years

    The year AH1260 = The Year AD1844

    What happened in 1844? Did Christ indeed return like a thief in the night?

    The Day of the Lord
    1 Thessalonians 5:1Now about the times and seasons, brothers, we do not need to write to you. 2For you are fully aware that the day of the Lord will come like a thief in the night. 3While people are saying, “Peace and security,” destruction will come upon them suddenly, like labour pains on a pregnant woman, and they will not escape.…

    New Name of Christ! (Christ – “Anointed One”)

    Revelation 2:17 'He who has an ear, let him hear what the Spirit says to the churches To him who overcomes, to him I will give some of the hidden manna, and I will give him a white stone, and a new name written on the stone which no one knows but he who receives it.'

    Isaiah 56:5 To them I will give in My house and within My walls a memorial, And a name better than that of sons and daughters; I will give them an everlasting name which will not be cut off.

    Isaiah 62:2 The nations will see your righteousness, And all kings your glory; And you will be called by a new name Which the mouth of the LORD will designate.

    Isaiah 65:15 "You will leave your name for a curse to My chosen ones, And the Lord GOD will slay you But My servants will be called by another name.

    Revelation 3:12 'He who overcomes, I will make him a pillar in the temple of My God, and he will not go out from it anymore; and I will write on him the name of My God, and the name of the city of My God, the new Jerusalem, which comes down out of heaven from My God, and My new name.

    John 14:28 You heard me say to you, ‘I am going away, and I will come to you.’ If you loved me, you would have rejoiced, because I am going to the Father, for the Father is greater than I.

    What is the new Name? (‘Baha’u’llah’ means ‘Glory of God’, or ‘The Glory of the Lord’)

    1 Corinthians 10:31 So, whether you eat or drink, or whatever you do, do all to the glory of God.
    Hebrews 1:3 He is the radiance of the glory of God and the exact imprint of his nature, and he upholds the universe by the word of his power. After making purification for sins, he sat down at the right hand of the Majesty on high,
    Philippians 2:9-11 Therefore God has highly exalted him and bestowed on him the name that is above every name, so that at the name of Jesus every knee should bow, in heaven and on earth and under the earth, and every tongue confess that Jesus Christ is Lord, to the glory of God the Father.
    John 11:40 Jesus said to her, “Did I not tell you that if you believed you would see the glory of God?”
    Isaiah 60:1 Arise, shine, for your light has come, and the glory of the Lord has risen upon you.
    Exodus 24:17 Now the appearance of the glory of the Lord was like a devouring fire on the top of the mountain in the sight of the people of Israel.
    Habakkuk 2:14 For the earth will be filled with the knowledge of the glory of the Lord as the waters cover the sea.
    Revelation 21:11 Having the glory of God, its radiance like a most rare jewel, like a jasper, clear as crystal.


    Where will Christ come from?

    Micah 7:12In that day also he shall come even to thee from Assyria, and from the fortified cities, and from the fortress even to the river, and from sea to sea, and from mountain to mountain”.

    Assyria is Persia where Baha’u’llah came from. He was imprisoned in fortified cities, banished across mountains, across rivers and overseas to end up in Akka in Israel, the Holy Land. Baha’u’llah stood on Mt Carmel a few times and the Universal House of Justice of the Baha’i Faith is on Mt Carmel.

    Where Will God send His Message from?

    Isaiah 35:2”It shall blossom abundantly, and rejoice even with joy and singing: the glory of Lebanon shall be given unto it, the excellency of Carmel and Sharon, they shall see the glory of the LORD, and the excellency of our God”.

    Micah 4:1And it will come about in the last days That the mountain of the house of the LORD Will be established as the chief of the mountains. It will be raised above the hills, And the peoples will stream to it. 2Many nations will come and say, "Come and let us go up to the mountain of the LORD And to the house of the God of Jacob, That He may teach us about His ways And that we may walk in His paths." For from Zion will go forth the law, Even the word of the LORD from Jerusalem. 3And He will judge between many peoples And render decisions for mighty, distant nations. Then they will hammer their swords into plowshares And their spears into pruning hooks; Nation will not lift up sword against nation, And never again will they train for war.…

    Mt Carmel.jpg
    Shrine of the Bab amongst the Gardens on Mount Carmel - Baha'u'llah pointed out the spot for this Shrine.

    All above Prophecies Fulfilled

    This is but a small selection of prophecies fulfilled by Baha'u'llah.

    Regards Tony
     
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