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Chosen People and Christianity.

Rival

Si m'ait Dieus
Staff member
Premium Member
I've often heard Christians say that the Jews are G-d's Chosen People. Whilst I, of course, agree, I'm not sure what they mean by this. If the Torah has been made invalid (G-d forbid) by Jesus' sacrifice and the prophecies fulfilled, how exactly are the Jews, in Christian theology, anymore a Chosen People than the Christians?

Thanks.
 

Kemosloby

Well-Known Member
Premium Member
I've often heard Christians say that the Jews are G-d's Chosen People. Whilst I, of course, agree, I'm not sure what they mean by this. If the Torah has been made invalid (G-d forbid) by Jesus' sacrifice and the prophecies fulfilled, how exactly are the Jews, in Christian theology, anymore a Chosen People than the Christians?

Thanks.

Chosen out of all the Nations to be the one Jesus the Messiah would come from.
 

BSM1

What? Me worry?
I had a Rabbi philosophy instructor in college who put it this way: It wasn't God choosing the Hebrews, it was the Hebrews choosing Yahweh and a singular, paternal God. Other religions of the time offered multi-gods, pagan idols, and maternal godheads.
 

metis

aged ecumenical anthropologist
I had a Rabbi philosophy instructor in college who put it this way: It wasn't God choosing the Hebrews, it was the Hebrews choosing Yahweh and a singular, paternal God.
Ya, but there are different ways of looking at this as it's really not 100% clear.

Other religions of the time offered multi-gods, pagan idols, and maternal godheads.
And how do you know that they are wrong? For example, take any one of them and then provide objective evidence that shows that it cannot be correct. Have fun.:D
 

BSM1

What? Me worry?
Ya, but there are different ways of looking at this as it's really not 100% clear.

And how do you know that they are wrong? For example, take any one of them and then provide objective evidence that shows that it cannot be correct. Have fun.:D

Wasn't making a judgement call, just passing along information.
 

Mister Emu

Emu Extraordinaire
Staff member
Premium Member
This is not a view I ever came across in my years as a Christian.
Hmm, that is the official position of the RCC, every Orthodox Church I know of, all of the protestant Churches I can think of, and it is in the NT.

Reading the anti-Semitic views of some of the Church Fathers seems to challenge this view.
I take it you've never encountered replacement theology?
 

eldios

Active Member
I've often heard Christians say that the Jews are G-d's Chosen People. Whilst I, of course, agree, I'm not sure what they mean by this. If the Torah has been made invalid (G-d forbid) by Jesus' sacrifice and the prophecies fulfilled, how exactly are the Jews, in Christian theology, anymore a Chosen People than the Christians?

Thanks.

No group of people are special to God. The chosen ones were created while the visible human beings were formed and will perish during this temporary generation.
 

Brickjectivity

Turned to Stone. Now I stretch daily.
Staff member
Premium Member
I have but it never really made any sense to me. Hence one reason why I'm not a Christian anymore, I guess.
I remember that you were Zoroastrian, and then you did a little time as a Christian. How is Christianity different from Zoroastrianism?
 

Rival

Si m'ait Dieus
Staff member
Premium Member
I remember that you were Zoroastrian, and then you did a little time as a Christian. How is Christianity different from Zoroastrianism?
Too many ways to detail in this thread, really. Zoroastrianism is a lot simpler: one God, one prophet and a simple message. No permanent hell, etc.
 

Rival

Si m'ait Dieus
Staff member
Premium Member
Mainstream Christian theology stipulates that Christians are Jews.
Also, as my OP implies, what then does this mean for the, uh, actual Jews? Because when a lay Christian says that Jews (tefillin, tallit, Shabbos...) are the Chosen People, what does he mean?
 

Rival

Si m'ait Dieus
Staff member
Premium Member
Where in the Torah does it specifically state that 'Jews' are the chosen people?

Deuteronomy 14:2
"For you are a holy people to Hashem your G-d, and G-d has chosen you to be his treasured people from all the nations that are on the face of the earth."

Deuteronomy 7:7
"it is not because you are numerous that G-d chose you, indeed you are the smallest of people."


Genesis 17:7
"And I will establish My covenant between Me and between you and between your seed after you throughout their generations as an everlasting covenant, to be to you for a G-d and to your seed after you."
 

Magus

Active Member
Deuteronomy 14:2
"For you are a holy people to Hashem your God, and God has chosen you to be his treasured people from all the nations that are on the face of the earth."

Genesis 17:7
"And I will establish My covenant between Me and between you and between your seed after you throughout their generations as an everlasting covenant, to be to you for a God and to your seed after you."


Not very specific is it

Genesis 17:7 was too Abraham, but he wasn't Jewish
Deuteronomy 14 - whom is this book targeting?

You read these verses and auto-assume they are talking about you, a person in the 21st century, any one can read these verses and believe they are the target audience for there own self-interest.

How many times does the word 'Jew' (יְהוּדִי) appear in the Bible? It first appears in 2 Kings 16:6 (not the Torah), the Babylonian captive where never called 'Jews' either and it is rather obvious the Biblical 'יְהוּדִי' (Ieudi ) aren't the same people as the 'Jews' today.
 

Mister Emu

Emu Extraordinaire
Staff member
Premium Member
Because when a lay Christian says that Jews (tefillin, tallit, Shabbos...) are the Chosen People, what does he mean?
That the Jews are a people chosen, set apart to be His, to be party to His covenants and to be the beneficiary of and channel for His graces, etc.
 

Rival

Si m'ait Dieus
Staff member
Premium Member
Not very specific is it

Genesis 17:7 was too Abraham, but he wasn't Jewish
Deuteronomy 14 - whom is this book targeting?

You read these verses and auto-assume they are talking about you, a person in the 21st century, any one can read these verses and believe they are the target audience for there own self-interest.

How many times does the word 'Jew' (יְהוּדִי) appear in the Bible? It first appears in 2 Kings 16:6 (not the Torah), the Babylonian captive where never called 'Jews' either and it is rather obvious the Biblical 'יְהוּדִי' (Ieudi ) aren't the same people as the 'Jews' today.

You clearly can't even be bothered to look at my religious label. I am not a Jew.

The book of Deuteronomy and Genesis target Jews. It was given at Mt Sinai from G-d to the Jewish people. Of course they were not called 'Jews' then, because this term comes from 'Judah', one of the surviving tribes after the exile. We call them that in modern times, because the Judahites (mixed with Benjamites) are the only Hebrew tribes we know right now, the ten others are 'lost'. So of course Torah doesn't say 'Jews' because Torah isn't just for the tribe of Judah. It's for those who were there and recieved it at Mt Sinai and this is all the 12 Tribes.

It's funny when people start foot stamping about this.
 
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