Chinese communists destroy 800 Buddha statues, discriminate against religious minorities

[Twilight Hue]

Unless the Buddhists were violent, which I doubt, I call this Chinese violence, hence these Chinese act wrong again

Unless it's all fake news, which I doubt, then it seems that China make kind of a habit of this .. Christians, Muslims, Buddhists, Falun Gong

(of course it could be that all these groups were extremely violent or going against the Law, otherwise it makes me put China on the never-to-go list)
(I do remember that Xi really does not like evangelist or people who proselytize, so that might be a reason why he does this kind of thing; I mean he is boss(y) )

You should hear what things were done to the original Shalon Monks.

 

[URAVIP2ME]

Found this on Youtube while searching for "Buddhist temples". This report from 2020 by Deutsche Welle states that the Communist Chinese government pursues an anti-religious policy (more fervently than before) by destroying 800 Buddha statues and closing Buddhist temples, as well as by exercizing repressions against religious minorities such as Muslims and Christians.................]

Besides the sincere, there are many who are religious in name only.
Either way, the political will surprisingly turn on the religious world.
Corrupted 'Christendom' (so-called Christian) will be the first to go.

 

[Wu Wei]

If I'm not mistaken, the Chinese government views the early period of Mao's rule in China favourably, with the formation of the People's Republic. However, the later period is not treated well. The CCP regards the great leap forward and the cultural revolution (basically the world's largest famine and a quasi-civil war) as "ultra-leftist" deviations from a correct party line. the CCP's treatment of Mao's legacy is more selective and the history is evaluated in line with current party thinking and policy.

Not disputing this, but I have never heard the Cultural revolution referred to as "the world's largest famine and a quasi-civil war" although there was famine and the Red Guard. And yes the early days of Mao were looked upon favorably, but those views are very different even by Deng Xiaoping.

As far as the current party line, it is Xi. Not a lot of folks disagreeing with him these days.

My wife grew up in Beijing during the cultural revolution and her father's family lost a lot in the time.

And Xi is a big fan of Mao and all Mao wrote and said. Xi is also uncharacteristically (For a Chinese leader) interested in expansionism

 

[stvdv]

You should hear what things were done to the original Shalon Monks.

I guess organ harvesting and intense torture. What I have heard and seen, China is one of the worst countries.

 

[Stevicus]

Assuming these reports are true, it's difficult to determine the scale, magnitude and intensity of the effort being directed against religion. (Superficially) this doesn't seem comparable to the extreme lengths the Soviets went to in the 1930's, or to the Cultural Revolution in China itself, or to Albania's effort (the only communist state to outright ban religion). It is still a big shift away from the (relative) tolerance that saw religion grow over the 1990's in China. It's probably still "bad" though by any western standard of religious freedom and human rights.


The Soviet Union went through periods of liberalisation and repression of religion, with its policy changing over time. In the 1920's, there was an intense but very crude effort against religion: young communists would hold blasphemous rallies against Easter and Christmas, which the communists realised only pissed everyone off and entrenched religious believers. After a respite under the New Economic policy, In the 1930's there was intense efforts towards repression, with a "five year plan" to achieve the eradication of religion and the mass mobilisation of parts of the country as part of the "League of the Militant Godless". (They also adopted an entirely new calendar, which switched between 5 and 6 day weeks, thus abolishing "Sundays" so no-one could celebrate the sabbeth). In the 1940's, the war effort meant that this anti-religious campaign could not be effectively conducted, and there was a change in policy being more sympathetic to religious belief in order to help the Soviets win the Second World War. Under Khrushchev in 1950's and 1960's , there was a renewed effort towards undermining religion, but it was (comparatively) less violent; churches were closed, course in "scientific atheism" became mandatory in schools and universities and museums of atheism were established.

Probably the best example of what happened, in the difference between "liberal" and "repressive" periods, was the different approaches to eliminate Christmas celebrations. They tried it in the 1930's, declaring Santa Claus an "enemy of the people" and turning December 25th in to a "day of industrialisation" (celebrated by going to work...how inspiring... ) By the end of Communist rule however, people simply held Christmas-like celebrations on New Years as a way to find secular alternatives to it as a "communist" sponsored winter festival, with Santa Claus, "new years" trees and gift-giving. They also have "new years" cards, which you get a weird blend of seasonal themes and techno-Utopian or patriotic imagery.

An excellent summary. Officially, the Soviet Constitution guaranteed freedom of religion, but it was strongly discouraged. However, it doesn't surprise me that Russia has seen a resurgence in religion since the fall of the USSR. I'm not sure that the Russians overall ever really stopped believing in God. Prior to the Revolution, most were very devout believers. Even if they didn't go to church or publicly express any religious beliefs, there were no doubt many who continued to believe privately.

I remember an old Soviet era joke about an old woman getting on a crowded bus and was lucky enough to be able to find a seat. She sat down and said "Thank God!" A young man heard her and said "Grandmother, you're speaking incorrectly. You should know that there is no God. Instead, you should say 'Thank Stalin.'" The old lady said "Oh yes, thank you, young man, for correcting me. I'm still behind the times." Then she thought for a moment and asked "But what would we say if, God forbid, Stalin should die?" The young man thought and replied "Then we would say 'Thank God'."

 

[Clara Tea]

Found this on Youtube while searching for "Buddhist temples". This report from 2020 by Deutsche Welle states that the Communist Chinese government pursues an anti-religious policy (more fervently than before) by destroying 800 Buddha statues and closing Buddhist temples, as well as by exercizing repressions against religious minorities such as Muslims and Christians. It may be easy to dismiss this as China-bashing, but I grew up in Communism. When I was a kid, my father would only begrudgingly let me attend Bible class because he feared "disadvantages". So I suppose that with regard to China's anti-religious policy, the claims made in the report have not been plucked out of thin air.

Jews made a golden calf to worship, and that angered God. There might come a time when people worship idols and don't heed the orders of God. For example, in Revelation, God ordered that we do not attack Iraq, but President W. Bush defied God.

Nazis respected (and some worshiped) the Swastika. Originally it was a sign of progress (4 feet whirling around, going somewhere). Yet, the nation of Germany changed, and it no longer symbolized progress. Rather, it symbolized Nazi Germany and the torture and death of millions of Jews.

Flag burners in America knew the distinction between worshiping an object rather than worshiping the concept that it stood for (at one time). They burned the flag during the Vietnam War to protest the fact that men, too young to vote, were drafted into a war that they didn't understand or approve. The flag was no longer a symbol of America's freedom, but rather a symbol of enslavement.

To many soldiers, the flag was a symbol of America and freedom, and that was their motive for fighting, and they felt that hurting the flag was tantamount to hurting America (they just couldn't understand).

Nazis had tried to kill the Jewish religion, and they insisted that no Jew speak Hebrew, nor possess a bible, nor cant (sing, as a cantor does, about religion), nor quote the old testament bible. The Nazis were not successful in eliminating the Jewish religion, because the faith (and belief) were not in the trinkets of the religion, not in the language, and not in the bibles (necessarily), but were in the hearts and minds of the Jewish people.

Nazis tried to keep Jews from playing music, because, through music they could galvanize their religion with others. This is why the father (or grandfather?) of artist Marc Chagall fiddled on the roof. The music echoed throughout the town and it was impossible for the Nazis to track down. (Chagall painted "the Fiddler on the Roof)."

Faith, not based on symbols (like Buddhas) is indominable.

 

[Laika]

Not disputing this, but I have never heard the Cultural revolution referred to as "the world's largest famine and a quasi-civil war" although there was famine and the Red Guard. And yes the early days of Mao were looked upon favorably, but those views are very different even by Deng Xiaoping.

I meant that the great leap forward was the world’s largest famine and that the cultural revolution was like a civil war (in so far as the whole country was mobilised against percieved internal enemies).

My wife grew up in Beijing during the cultural revolution and her father's family lost a lot in the time.

It was certainly one of the worst times to be in China in recent history. So I am glad your wife got out alive.

 

[Shantanu]

Found this on Youtube while searching for "Buddhist temples". This report from 2020 by Deutsche Welle states that the Communist Chinese government pursues an anti-religious policy (more fervently than before) by destroying 800 Buddha statues and closing Buddhist temples, as well as by exercizing repressions against religious minorities such as Muslims and Christians. It may be easy to dismiss this as China-bashing, but I grew up in Communism. When I was a kid, my father would only begrudgingly let me attend Bible class because he feared "disadvantages". So I suppose that with regard to China's anti-religious policy, the claims made in the report have not been plucked out of thin air.

The Chinese are very ancient people, Homo erectus descendants from what I understand who evolved differently to the second wave of 'Out of Africa' migration of Homo sapiens. Yes/No?

 

[firedragon]

Found this on Youtube while searching for "Buddhist temples". This report from 2020 by Deutsche Welle states that the Communist Chinese government pursues an anti-religious policy (more fervently than before) by destroying 800 Buddha statues and closing Buddhist temples, as well as by exercizing repressions against religious minorities such as Muslims and Christians. It may be easy to dismiss this as China-bashing, but I grew up in Communism. When I was a kid, my father would only begrudgingly let me attend Bible class because he feared "disadvantages". So I suppose that with regard to China's anti-religious policy, the claims made in the report have not been plucked out of thin air.

The Soviets did the same thing. Stalin.

Atheists would get agitated and have a lot of dogmatic, tribalistic responses to the statement "in the name of atheism".

 

[Wu Wei]

It was certainly one of the worst times to be in China in recent history. So I am glad your wife got out alive.

Thank You

She actually lived there for the entire cultural revolution and did not come to America until several years after Tiananmen square. Her views of the cultural revolution seem to be much like my mother's views (and the views my Grandmother had) of the Great Depression. Her's and her families life in China were actually became pretty good...after the cultural revolution. But her father's family lost a lot of real estate during the cultural revolution, that they never got back.

 

[firedragon]

Found this on Youtube while searching for "Buddhist temples". This report from 2020 by Deutsche Welle states that the Communist Chinese government pursues an anti-religious policy (more fervently than before) by destroying 800 Buddha statues and closing Buddhist temples, as well as by exercizing repressions against religious minorities such as Muslims and Christians. It may be easy to dismiss this as China-bashing, but I grew up in Communism. When I was a kid, my father would only begrudgingly let me attend Bible class because he feared "disadvantages". So I suppose that with regard to China's anti-religious policy, the claims made in the report have not been plucked out of thin air.

When the Taliban destroyed Buddha statues, a lot of atheists and Christian evangelists, and Indians, and a lot of non-muslims visibly and unequivocally generalised this to Islam and Muslims.

Lets see what this kind of behaviour is generalised to by the same people.

Nope. It won't happen. It will spoken of specifically.

 

[sayak83]

Under Xi, the CCP has pushed to Sinicize religion, or shape all religions to conform to the doctrines of the officially atheist party and the customs of the majority Han Chinese population.
The CCP is officially atheist. The party prohibits its more than ninety million party members from holding religious beliefs, and it has demanded the expulsion of party members who belong to religious organizations.
For example, in 2018, party cadres and officials were given control over Sichuan Province’s Larung Gar, one of the world’s largest Buddhist study centers. Authorities demolished nearly half of the center in 2019, displacing up to six thousand monks and nuns.
Some argue that state repression of religion often has less to do with religious doctrine than with a group’s organizational ability, due to fear that such a group could potentially challenge the CCP’s legitimacy.
The State of Religion in China

Not religious myself but this seems more about reducing the threat to CCP political power.

Reducing the political threat of Buddhism.
Chinese authorities are requiring key Tibetan monks and nuns to act as propagandists for the government and Communist Party, Human Rights Watch said today. Under new policies for “Sinicizing” religion, the government has been compelling selected monastics in the Tibetan Autonomous Region (TAR) to undergo political training designed to create a new corps of Buddhist teachers proficient in state ideology.
Under the “Four Standards” policy introduced in TAR in 2018, monks and nuns must demonstrate – apart from competence in Buddhist studies – “political reliability,” “moral integrity capable of impressing the public,” and willingness to “play an active role at critical moments.” The implication is that they must agree to forestall or stop any attempts to protest state policy.
China: New Political Requirements for Tibetan Monastics

Is Buddhism at odds with Communist rule?
Buddhism is compatible with atheism. Then what political threat could Buddism be to the Communist Party?

Buddhism is incompatible with thought control. That's the problem.

 

[sayak83]

When the Taliban destroyed Buddha statues, a lot of atheists and Christian evangelists, and Indians, and a lot of non-muslims visibly and unequivocally generalised this to Islam and Muslims.

Lets see what this kind of behaviour is generalised to by the same people.

Nope. It won't happen. It will spoken of specifically.

Communism is horrible.
There.

 

[Laika]

When the Taliban destroyed Buddha statues, a lot of atheists and Christian evangelists, and Indians, and a lot of non-muslims visibly and unequivocally generalised this to Islam and Muslims.

Lets see what this kind of behaviour is generalised to by the same people.

Nope. It won't happen. It will spoken of specifically.

As a communist, I'm sorry we are blowing up statues.

Communism is horrible.
There.

Our track record is pretty awful. We could do a lot better and should certainly try.

 

[firedragon]

As a communist, I'm sorry we are blowing up statues.

If you are a communist, what communists in some country do is not your fault. Its not even the fault of communism.

 

[Laika]

If you are a communist, what communists in some country do is not your fault. Its not even the fault of communism.

It is nice of you to say so, although regrettably my experience is the distinction doesn’t matter a huge amount to most people (especially online).

 

[firedragon]

It is nice of you to say so, although regrettably my experience is the distinction doesn’t matter a huge amount to most people (especially online).

Generalising anything like that is bigotry Laika, and its pretty common online. I know what you mean.

On a side note, I wish you would have a thread where you openly say some things about communism so that all of us can learn from an internal perspective. But that's an irrelevant request.

 

[Laika]

Generalising anything like that is bigotry Laika, and its pretty common online. I know what you mean.

On a side note, I wish you would have a thread where you openly say some things about communism so that all of us can learn from an internal perspective. But that's an irrelevant request.

You are welcome to ask away. I don't think anyone will be bothered too much. Did you have anything specific in mind?

 

[firedragon]

You are welcome to ask away. I don't think anyone will be bothered too much. Did you have anything specific in mind?

Err. I dont think its appropriate to ask you questions like that Laika. Especially in an irrelevant thread.

Why you are a communist? Why do you think its a better system? I remember a few years ago a director in a huge apparel company, my good friend told me that only communist countries in the world at the moment are truly growing in terms of sustainable economic welfare. After a little bit of back and forth I realised in extension only monarchies, dictatorships and communist countries were at that time truly growing in terms of economic welfare. But the world hated communists like the plague since the anti communist propaganda during the world wars. Even communists in the United States were treated like earth invading martians inside the country. Their own citizens. Simply for being communists.

I am not expert enough to say or analyse which one is good or better. But I would like to hear from you really.

 

[Laika]

Err. I dont think its appropriate to ask you questions like that Laika. Especially in an irrelevant thread.

I'll keep it short.

The reason I am a communist is more to do with finding the theory very compelling and comprehensive than more mainstream ideas, rather than its (admittedly very poor) performance. Capitalists tend to argue that they are the only "realistic" system and that capitalism is the by-product of "human nature" based on us all "naturally" being selfish. Given that capitalism has existed for only a few hundred years (since about 1750 by mainstream estimates), treating everything that went before it in thousands of years of human history as "unnatural", doesn't make sense.

In assuming that what we are used to in the present day is "natural" or "eternal" is sort of like thinking the sun orbits the earth because the sun moves in the sky, whilst the earth appears still. What Marxism can do, is account for all the changes that are largely invisible in our own experience, but may be more obvious over longer, historical time frames. (i.e. just because we can't feel it, doesn't mean the earth isn't moving beneath our feet). Our collective failure to address environmental problems, such as climate change. is a big warning sign that our way of life won't go on indefinitely. On that issue alone, either we will change voluntarily in a controlled way, or be forced to change in an uncontrolled way.

So far, the performance of communist countries is definitely "bad". Perhaps not as bad as regularly portrayed and they have had their moments, like the U.S.S.R. defeating the Nazis, it's rapid industrialisation, it's early lead in the space race, eliminating illiteracy and providing universal healthcare. But there are major issues that mean living in a western country is still more attractive than living in North Korea or China, such as in terms of civil liberties or levels of affluence.