1. Welcome to Religious Forums, a friendly forum to discuss all religions in a friendly surrounding.

    Your voice is missing! You will need to register to get access to the following site features:
    • Reply to discussions and create your own threads.
    • Our modern chat room. No add-ons or extensions required, just login and start chatting!
    • Access to private conversations with other members.

    We hope to see you as a part of our community soon!

China trade causing economy failure low lows!

Discussion in 'North American Politics' started by Riders, May 23, 2019.

  1. Riders

    Riders Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Sep 2, 2015
    Messages:
    5,166
    Ratings:
    +1,210
    Religion:
    Unitarian Universalism,Pagan,Zen
  2. Enoch07

    Enoch07 It's all a sick freaking joke.
    Premium Member

    Joined:
    Apr 14, 2009
    Messages:
    8,048
    Ratings:
    +2,248
    Religion:
    Theistic Rationalist-Christian
  3. Riders

    Riders Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Sep 2, 2015
    Messages:
    5,166
    Ratings:
    +1,210
    Religion:
    Unitarian Universalism,Pagan,Zen
    I dont have an issue with him helping out the farmers either. The article says that out economy is getting bad and the china trade is causing problems, I dont understand it as well, but did you watch the video?
     
  4. Nowhere Man

    Nowhere Man Bompu Zen Man with a little bit of Bushido.

    Joined:
    Mar 7, 2009
    Messages:
    22,065
    Ratings:
    +8,151
    Religion:
    Zen Buddhism
    China's not instrumental to our overall economic survival.
     
    • Like Like x 1
  5. Enoch07

    Enoch07 It's all a sick freaking joke.
    Premium Member

    Joined:
    Apr 14, 2009
    Messages:
    8,048
    Ratings:
    +2,248
    Religion:
    Theistic Rationalist-Christian
    No the economy is soaring.

    He's helping out the farmers for multiple reasons, but the new tariffs on China means China will buy less soybeans and other vegetables from U.S. farmers, so Trump is helping make up the difference since farmers didn't have a heads up to plant accordingly. Next year they will plant less to adjust to the new market which means they will spend less and still make a profit. This year though with the surprise tarrif hike farmers were not prepared.
     
    • Funny Funny x 1
    • Informative Informative x 1
  6. Salvador

    Salvador Conscious Being

    Joined:
    Mar 2, 2015
    Messages:
    3,543
    Ratings:
    +1,077
    Religion:
    Seventh Day Adventist
    Tariffs on imports of Chinese products in the U.S. are economically punishing China for their requirement that non-Chinese owned businesses hand over their most prized technology to state-owned Chinese companies in order for non-Chinese owned companies to have access to the Chinese market. Eventually, the tariffs will force China to open up their markets without the Chinese stealing technology away from non-Chinese owned businesses.
     
  7. ecco

    ecco Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Nov 15, 2016
    Messages:
    6,720
    Ratings:
    +3,317
    Religion:
    atheist
    Yes, the $16,000,000,000 bailout is old news from last year. Now he is giving another $16,000,000,000. I really wonder where this money is coming from?


    That's $32,000,000,000 that the American taxpayers, including you, have to needlessly spend because of Trump's ridiculous tariff war. The worse part is that many industries are affected and they are not getting a bailout. The higher prices they pay for imports are just being passed along to the rest of us, including you. Promises made, promises kept.
     
    #7 ecco, May 24, 2019
    Last edited: May 24, 2019
    • Informative Informative x 1
  8. ecco

    ecco Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Nov 15, 2016
    Messages:
    6,720
    Ratings:
    +3,317
    Religion:
    atheist
    I'm glad to see that you are aware of what is happening:

    https://wfpl.org/farmers-economists-see-more-economic-pain-from-trumps-increased-tariffs/
    ECONOMY
    May 10, 2019
    Ohio Valley farmers say the latest tariff escalation between the Trump administration and China could continue to hurt their businesses, with many farmers already facing financial struggles.

    As Chinese officials visit Washington, D.C., for more trade talks, the Trump administration announced this week increased tariffs, planned to go into effect Friday, on $200 billion dollars worth of Chinese goods, accusing the country of reneging on trade promises.

    Chinese officials have already threatened to retaliate if Trump follows through. Chinese goods, ranging from pork products and soybeans to shampoo could see tariffs increase from the current 10 percent to 25 percent.

    Hord Farms CEO Pat Hord raises livestock in north central Ohio. He said he was surprised when he first saw President Trump threaten this week on Twitter to raise tariffs.

    “It was frustrating, because we were hoping we were going the other way,” Hord said. “We don’t mind helping in [trade], we just don’t want to bear a disproportionate load of the pain. And that’s what we feel has happened.”

    Hord said he’s had to scale back on investing in his business because of the uncertainty with trade talks and doesn’t have a good idea when a trade deal will be struck with China.​



    Michigan farmers blast Trump trade policies amid new Chinese tariffs
    Michigan farmers blast Trump trade policies amid new Chinese tariffs
    Paul Egan, Detroit Free PressPublished 12:52 p.m. ET May 13, 2019 | Updated 11:13 a.m. ET May 14, 2019
    Jim Byrum, president of the Michigan Agri-Business Association, said new tariffs announced Monday by China will "tighten the noose" even further for Michigan farmers who rely on export markets. Detroit Free Press


    EAST LANSING – Frustrated Michigan farmers blasted the Trump administration's trade policies Monday, hours after China announced new tariffs on $60 billion in U.S. imports.

    "The noose is getting tighter," said Jim Byrum, president of the Michigan Agri-Business Association.

    "We have lost market opportunities. We're not shipping soybeans around the world like we normally would. We're not shipping them to China. China was our biggest soybean consumer, and they're not moving."

    China was also the biggest opportunity for Michigan producers to sell pork, "and they're not buying because of the tariffs," Byrum said.

    "The new Chinese tariffs ... it's going to hurt even more."

    But they acknowledged that prospects for passing that pact are tangled up in tit-for-tats over tariffs on aluminum and steel affecting Canada and Europe, plus the escalating trade war with China.

    They said they are increasingly concerned that the U.S. is losing its reputation as a consistent and reliable supplier of farm products. Not only are new opportunities being lost, but existing customers are finding new suppliers and may never return, they said.
     
    • Winner Winner x 1
  9. Wandering Monk

    Wandering Monk Active Member

    Joined:
    Apr 14, 2019
    Messages:
    644
    Ratings:
    +365
    Religion:
    agnostic
    China's exports comprise nearly double the percent of their GDP than US exports as a percent of its GDP.

    We have been trading at a disadvantage with China for decades. Tell me this doesn't hurt other US industries that could benefit if China was less protectionist.
     
  10. Enoch07

    Enoch07 It's all a sick freaking joke.
    Premium Member

    Joined:
    Apr 14, 2009
    Messages:
    8,048
    Ratings:
    +2,248
    Religion:
    Theistic Rationalist-Christian
    Considering the new tariffs are only a few weeks old the $16 billion from last year can't be connected to this year.

    So it's $16 billion bailout b/c of tariffs.

    But the fact you want to blame older spending on the tariffs just to inflate your number speaks loudly about your irrational attitude toward Trump.

    $16 billion of U.S paid tax dollars going directly back to U.S citizens. I don't have an issue with that. Neither would any rational person.
     
  11. ecco

    ecco Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Nov 15, 2016
    Messages:
    6,720
    Ratings:
    +3,317
    Religion:
    atheist
    Trump gave $16,000,000,000 to farmers last year when he started the whole tariff thing. Now he upped the stakes. The Chinese, as expected, retaliated and Trump pledged another $16,000,000,000.

    Do a little research before posting.
     
  12. Enoch07

    Enoch07 It's all a sick freaking joke.
    Premium Member

    Joined:
    Apr 14, 2009
    Messages:
    8,048
    Ratings:
    +2,248
    Religion:
    Theistic Rationalist-Christian
    Again, it doesn't matter. The money went to U.S. farmers. I'm ok with it.

    But i suppose you'd rather the country starve to death than support anything Trump does. Good job! :thumbsup:
     
  13. Salvador

    Salvador Conscious Being

    Joined:
    Mar 2, 2015
    Messages:
    3,543
    Ratings:
    +1,077
    Religion:
    Seventh Day Adventist
    We both darn well know U.S. tariffs against China are necessary in order to put economic pressure on them to stop stealing American technology and American intellectual property.
     
  14. Wandering Monk

    Wandering Monk Active Member

    Joined:
    Apr 14, 2019
    Messages:
    644
    Ratings:
    +365
    Religion:
    agnostic
  15. ecco

    ecco Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Nov 15, 2016
    Messages:
    6,720
    Ratings:
    +3,317
    Religion:
    atheist
    So you are OK with welfare. That's surprising.




    I'd rather have a President who understands international commerce. Our farmers were doing quite well before Trump. Now, some of your tax dollars are going to support Trump's ignorance.


    You may be OK with it, but, if you do a little research, you will see that the farmers are not OK with it.
     
  16. ecco

    ecco Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Nov 15, 2016
    Messages:
    6,720
    Ratings:
    +3,317
    Religion:
    atheist
    No, we both do not know that darn well. If you want to make nonsensical assertions, that's your problem. But don't include me.

    How does this tariff war deter China from "stealing American technology and American intellectual property"? Please be specific and provide supporting commentary from independent sources.




    ETA: Wandering Monk posted a relevant link. You should take the time to read it before replying.
    FACT SHEET: The Obama Administration’s Unprecedented Trade Enforcement Record | United States Trade Representative
     
  17. Salvador

    Salvador Conscious Being

    Joined:
    Mar 2, 2015
    Messages:
    3,543
    Ratings:
    +1,077
    Religion:
    Seventh Day Adventist

    Believe me, the tariffs have punished China so badly, to get these tariffs lifted from Chinese products imported to the U.S., the Chinese unfair trade practitioners are on the verge of allowing American businesses fair access to Chinese markets without the necessity of non-Chinese businesses surrendering their trade secrets, intellectual property, or technology to China.
     
  18. Enoch07

    Enoch07 It's all a sick freaking joke.
    Premium Member

    Joined:
    Apr 14, 2009
    Messages:
    8,048
    Ratings:
    +2,248
    Religion:
    Theistic Rationalist-Christian
    It's not welfare.

    You don't know a thing about farming then. Farmers were carrying a lot of debt before Trump did anything.

    Here is an article from 2011. Well before Trump became President. Though I'm sure you'll still blame Trump.;)
    Farm Debt Level on the Rise
     
  19. ecco

    ecco Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Nov 15, 2016
    Messages:
    6,720
    Ratings:
    +3,317
    Religion:
    atheist
    Is that your opinion or did you read that?

    China feels the pain of tariffs: 'This will kill my U.S. market’
    Jake Parker, vice-president at the U.S.-China Business Council in Beijing, which lobbies on behalf of U.S. companies in China, said that “things are moving in the wrong direction on these issues”.

    “More tariffs will not persuade either government to change their positions and will exacerbate the damage being done to American companies and farmers that do business with China. Negotiation is the only way to get these issues back on the right track,” Parker said. “We urge both governments to stop their squabbling and get back to the real work of addressing these important structural issues. Doing so will give American exporters and investors a level playing field in China.”

    Wei Jianguo, a former vice-minister in the Chinese Ministry of Commerce, said he also expected the main victims of the US tariff expansion to be American consumers.“[A total of US$575 billion in Chinese exports subject to tariffs] is a huge figure, what will the American consumers think?” he told the South China Morning Post, warning that China’s ability to respond to this escalation was “far beyond the imagination of the Trump administration”.​
     
  20. ecco

    ecco Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Nov 15, 2016
    Messages:
    6,720
    Ratings:
    +3,317
    Religion:
    atheist
    wel·fare
    /ˈwelˌfer/
    noun
      • statutory procedure or social effort designed to promote the basic physical and material well-being of people in need.
        "the protection of rights to education, housing, and welfare"
      • NORTH AMERICAN
        financial support given to people in need.
    Sure it is. Bear in mind that this is above and beyond the "Farm Subsidies".

    Here's an article from 2019:


    BUSINESS NEWS
    FEBRUARY 27, 2019 / 10:39 AM / 3 MONTHS AGO
    U.S. farm debt soars to levels seen during 1980s farm crisis: Agriculture secretary

    Humeyra Pamuk WASHINGTON (Reuters) - The amount of debt held by America’s farmers has risen rapidly to 1980s-levels at $409 billion from $385 billion last year, with loan demand remaining “historically high,” U.S. Agriculture Secretary Sonny Perdue said on Wednesday.

    The figures reflect a level of strain on the U.S. farm belt that is comparable to the agricultural crisis of three decades ago, this time driven by lingering weakness in commodity prices, storms damaging crops and loss of key export markets such as China due to President Donald Trump’s trade disputes.
     
Loading...