China Expected to be the Only Major Economy with Positive Growth this Year

[Saint Frankenstein]

Really. The government and military personnel responses suggests otherwise.



You're probably right.



Attempted extradition isn't to pin medals on Snowden and Assange.

The abuses of coalition forces during the Iraq War were known to those paying attention before anyone knew who Assange was or Wikileaks existed. I already knew they were using banned munitions and committing atrocities way before 2010, when they did that big leak.

I'm just saying that if Assange was a real threat, he'd just end up dead. They wouldn't be playing political games with him. He'd just be dead, like so many others. It's not hard to off someone and cover it up. They did it with Epstein.

 

[Stevicus]

Having the wrong opinion in China is far more dangerous than here.
Their best are quickly silenced.

I guess it would depend upon the opinion. Some people have suffered just as much here for having the wrong opinions. "More dangerous" is merely a matter of perspective.

As for Taiwan, Chinas intention of conquering it strikes me as less than their best.

Every society has their best and their worst. When you cited Snowden, Assange, and Manning as "best of the west," I thought it would be analogous to dissidents from "the east." It hasn't exactly been safe for Snowden, Assange, or Manning either - although the danger to them doesn't come from China. In fact, the Chinese might look upon them favorably.

 

[Quintessence]

Ever since I was old enough and studied enough to understand more about ecology and environmental science, I have found the notion that economic growth is some sort of unquestioned good highly suspect if not outright fallacious. That's because economic growth is in no small respects a measure of how intensively humans are contributing to the global ecocide and sixth mass extinction. I view no growth as good for the planet, as well as for humanity in the long run. Perpetual, uncontrolled growth is cancer, and does precisely what cancer does - kills the patient eventually. Until humans move from growth economies to sustainable ones, well... growth is making humans a more cancerous and invasive force.

Pardon if this is a little bit off topic, but I felt it was relevant context. As far as I'm concerned, the economy that is growing the most is probably the one that is most effective at screwing over the biosphere. That's not something to congratulate someone for.

 

[Revoltingest]

I guess it would depend upon the opinion.

I thought the context was expression of opinions counter to what government wants.

Some people have suffered just as much here for having the wrong opinions. "More dangerous" is merely a matter of perspective.

Do you think the problem is equally bad?
I see a great deal of vigorous political dissention here,
but no persecution on the scale of what happens in China.

Every society has their best and their worst. When you cited Snowden, Assange, and Manning as "best of the west," I thought it would be analogous to dissidents from "the east." It hasn't exactly been safe for Snowden, Assange, or Manning either - although the danger to them doesn't come from China. In fact, the Chinese might look upon them favorably.

Snwoden, Assange, & Manning are very different from ordinary
dissidents...they actually exposed major embarrassing state
secrets. This isn't comparable to China's imprisoning people
for merely expressing counter-revolutionary opinions.
Ref....
World Report 2019: Rights Trends in China

 

[sun rise]

Whether China is lying about its economy & the number of deaths
(a real possibility), it does make sense that a command economy
under an authoritarian regime can have the advantage in addressing
recovery compared to a decentralized government & economy.
The unasked question....
Under which system would you rather live?
Just my personal preference, but I'll take the Ameristanian way.
If people living under the PRC were able to post here, I'd be
interested in their views.

I also look at the long term say 10 or even 50 years out.

 

[sun rise]

This isn't comparable to China's imprisoning people
for merely expressing counter-revolutionary opinions.

Or being the wrong religion or ethnic group.

 

[sun rise]

Having the wrong opinion in China is far more dangerous than here.
Their best are quickly silenced.
As for Taiwan, Chinas intention of conquering it strikes me as less than their best.

Given what they've done to Hong Kong in spite of their promises, I don't trust them one whit except for their "tomorrow the world" statements - those I believe.

 

[Revoltingest]

Or being the wrong religion or ethnic group.

I have Muslim family back in China.
It's important to express one's opinions with great circumspection.

 

[Revoltingest]

Given what they've done to Hong Kong in spite of their promises, I don't trust them one whit except for their "tomorrow the world" statements - those I believe.

You're on thin ice with such criticism.
I've heard rumblings about revoking your socialist status.

 

[sun rise]

You're on thin ice with such criticism.
I've heard rumblings about revoking your socialist status.

I'm no "true socialist" because my socialist credentials are ignored by you as not being real.

 

[Revoltingest]

I'm no "true socialist" because my socialist credentials are ignored by you as not being real.

I'm not the one grumbling about your dissing China.
I approve of your disapproval.
And I also approve of your being such a terrible socialist.

 

[ecco]

It wasn't disproven from what I know.

It wasn't disproven that the virus was created in America and slipped into China by the Trump administration's covert agents.

People just stopped talking about it. Hmm.

People just stopped talking about it. Hmm.

 

[Shadow Wolf]

Just because we didn't make it, doesn't mean it didn't come from a lab. I don't know. I don't trust anything China says. It's like trusting the USSR or North Korea. These countries are our enemies.

Evolution or clandestine operations?
One answer is clearly more plausible and likely than the other.

I don't feel crushed.

I don't think it's on anymore, but there was a documentary about this on Netflix about this not too long ago. The main star was Hulk Hogan, and his history of suing journalists for publishing unsavory but factual things about him.

 

[Revoltingest]

It wasn't disproven that the virus was created in America and slipped into China by the Trump administration's covert agents.

Hmmm....if not disproven, I guess that makes it true.
But @lewisnotmiller hasn't been found innocent of it either.

 

[Revoltingest]

I don't think it's on anymore, but there was a documentary about this on Netflix about this not too long ago. The main star was Hulk Hogan, and his history of suing journalists for publishing unsavory but factual things about him.

I don't think that level of speech suppression rises to the PRC's.

 

[Stevicus]

I thought the context was expression of opinions counter to what government wants.

Yes, although different governments want different things.

Do you think the problem is equally bad?
I see a great deal of vigorous political dissention here,
but no persecution on the scale of what happens in China.

I'm not in China, so I can't really say. I've never been there, but of those I know who have, they seemed to enjoy it very much. Is the level of persecution in China the same as it was 50-60 years ago?

As for vigorous political dissension here in the U.S., I see it too, although it seems to fit within a certain box. We just have a different style, yet politics is politics, and it's just as possible for U.S. politicians or other powerful figures to have enemies as in any other country.

Snwoden, Assange, & Manning are very different from ordinary
dissidents...they actually exposed major embarrassing state
secrets. This isn't comparable to China's imprisoning people
for merely expressing counter-revolutionary opinions.
Ref....
World Report 2019: Rights Trends in China

It may not be quite as bad in America, although my main point was that bad things can and do happen to Americans who have the "wrong opinion." Is it as bad as what's going on in China? Probably not, at least in terms of overall numbers.

 

[Shadow Wolf]

I don't think that level of speech suppression rises to the PRC's.

It's still more the idea it's corporations calling the shots and censoring and controlling. Like John Deere suing farmers in court for adjusting software of machines made by Deere but purchased by (and not fully owned according to the corporation) the farmer. Not leased. Not rented. Purchased.

 

[ecco]

It's just a 24/7 fear-a-thon.

It sure is a fear-a-thon. Like a couple of months ago when we hit 200,000 dead, some people were saying if we didn't wear masks and maintain social distancing, we would hit 300,000 in December.

Just a fear-a-thon. Ignore the media. Follow Trump's lead. Skip masks. Mingle. Give hugs to strangers.

 

[ecco]

Yeah, but the US isn't an Orwellian nightmare the state controls the media and crushes all dissent.

We just have a wannabe who convinced half the country that the "mainstream" media lies. We just have a wannabe who touts ultra-right-wing media outlets like Breitbart and Fox and OAN.

No need to crush the media, just get the sheeples to ignore it and to follow your chosen mouthpieces instead.

 

[Revoltingest]

Yes, although different governments want different things.

Really?

I'm not in China, so I can't really say. I've never been there, but of those I know who have, they seemed to enjoy it very much. Is the level of persecution in China the same as it was 50-60 years ago?

There's less persecution now.

It may not be quite as bad in America....

That's very generous of you....allowing that Ameristan might not be as oppressive as China.