Child Sex Abuse And Atheists

[Rational Agnostic]

Your argument fails because you show no statistics on sex abuse by atheists.

Sorry to say. But the thread falls flat on it's face.

True. And he provides no statistics on Christians either. Just headlines. Also, atheists are under 10% of the population while Christians are like 70-80% so just from a demographic standpoint it makes sense that it would be less common among atheists.

 

[youknowme]

Show me your medical evidence that proves your hypothesis. Otherwise, I hope you'll forgive me for dismissing your opinion in this case.

That was not a hypothesis, it was an opinion.

 

[youknowme]

Why isn't God protecting these childern?

 

[nPeace]

1. I hang round my local Humanists group and the local SACRE branch. What is wrong with the atheists on here or the Dawkins and Krauss crowd. I've just condemned Krauss remember?
2. I didn't need reminding. It is a discussion.
3. Which data?

You say, "When they are caught red handed..."
But, in many religious institutions the crime is initially reported to the priests/elders or whoever NOT the police. The priests and elders then tell the victim, "Let's keep this out of the police's hands, we'll deal with it" I would recommend the film Spotlight
Spotlight (film) - Wikipedia

1. I did not say anything was wrong with atheist on these forums, or anywhere else.
You said, "I disagree that atheists claim the moral high ground..."
I disagreed, because they do - not all, I'm sure.
2. Oh sorry. I thought we were discussing child sex abuse.
3. Here, and here.

Oh. I don't know what the priest and elders of the various religions tell the victims. I can only speak from the facts I have, and in my faith, the elders do not tell the victims such things.

Steps are taken to protect the victim(s)...
First, the child—and other children too—must be protected from any further abuse. This must be done, whatever the cost. In many cases the accused molester will have to be confronted. But whatever it takes, it is important that the child should feel confident that the molester will never be able to get at her (or him) again.

Second, the child must be given a lot of love and emotional support. Parents must make it very clear that the little victim is not to blame. The crime and anything that happens as a result of it—even if a close relative goes to prison—is not her (or his) fault. But that reassurance will have to be given many times, so that the victim comes to believe it—and to believe that the parents believe it too!

...and the responsible parent is guided to do all they can to protect the child from further abuse - If Your Child Is Abused
You can download a copy of JWs handbook on dealing with these matters - Jehovah’s Witnesses’ Scripturally Based Position on Child Protection
Excerpt
4. In all cases, victims and their parents have the right to report an accusation of child abuse to the authorities. Therefore, victims, their parents, or anyone else who reports such an accusation to the elders are clearly informed by the elders that they have the right to report the matter to the authorities.
Elders do not criticize anyone who chooses to make such a report.—Galatians 6:5.

5. When elders learn of an accusation of child abuse, they immediately consult with the branch office of Jehovah’s Witnesses to ensure compliance with child abuse reporting laws. (Romans 13:1)

 

[nPeace]

Why isn't God protecting these childern?

What do you suggest he do?
1. Give them (the children) super powers
2. Zap the perverts
3. ???
Any suggestions?

I have learned from a study of the Bible, that the reason, in a nutshell, is that he has allowed this world, alienated from him, to take its course, not intervening to aid man's corrupt rule in the hands of Satan, until his appointed time to take full control, after he has given everyone fair opportunity to take sides with his government - the real solution to all problems.

 

[youknowme]

What do you suggest he do?
1. Give them (the children) super powers
2. Zap the perverts
3. ???
Any suggestions?

I have learned from a study of the Bible, that the reason, in a nutshell, is that he has allowed this world, alienated from him, to take its course, not intervening to aid man's corrupt rule in the hands of Satan, until his appointed time to take full control, after he has given everyone fair opportunity to take sides with his government - the real solution to all problems.

If you knew that an adult was sexually abusing a child and you had the power to stop it, would you just stand there and do nothing?

 

[youknowme]

True. And he provides no statistics on Christians either. Just headlines. Also, atheists are under 10% of the population while Christians are like 70-80% so just from a demographic standpoint it makes sense that it would be less common among atheists.

It would be an absolutely impossible task to get reliable statistics on something like this. However, that is certainly no reason to dismiss the problem. Furthermore, a percentage is a proportion, which, if we could get such stats, we could use to compare populations of different sizes.

 

[Samantha Rinne]

Atheism is in no way proof against child sex abuse. It's simply not.

I will say that I think some of the churches and organizations you are citing have cultural issues or mandates (eg. no sex) which exacerbate the issues above and beyond what the people involved would do due to their base nature only.

But that's it. And there is nothing to prevent an 'atheist' organisation, whatever that looks like, having cultural issues of this type too.

In fact, let me be the first to say that not only is there nothing to prevent it, but it is actually actively going on!

Yes, the Christian priests have had molestation, and this has a large portion to do with lack of marriages.

Hollywood is a (largely) secular organization. And they have had sex abuse scandals too.

Sex Scandals of Early Hollywood
Harvey Weinstein scandal: A complete list of the 87 accusers
Hollywood wracked by chaos in aftermath of sex scandals

The political world often is also fairly secular. Same deal.

Top 10 Political Sex Scandals | HuffPost
List of federal political sex scandals in the United States - Wikipedia
Multiple Democrats Currently Involved In Child Sex Scandals

 

[nPeace]

If you knew that an adult was sexually abusing a child and you had the power to stop it, would you just stand there and do nothing?

That's a good question.
Of course if I had the power to stop it, I would take measures to do so.
I have many options though.
It depends on what power I have. That's why I asked what you would suggest.

 

[9-10ths_Penguin]

Could it be that, for whatever reason, the Christian religion either attracts child sex abusers or turns people into them?

If not, how do you explain such a lopsided difference?

A few factors are at play:

- there aren't that many kid-oriented atheist organizations. The only one I can think of off the top of my head is Camp Quest.

- what organizations there are aren't in a hierarchical structure that would allow the leadership to transfer someone in over the objections of the local committee.

- atheist organizations don't have the power, influence and status that religious organizations do. The Ryan Report found many cases where the police would receive a report of abuse and the police would turn their files over to the bishop to handle the issue internally. This just doesn't happen with atheist groups.

And its worth pointing out that some atheist and secular figures have used their positions to do nefarious thongs too, just not typically with children. Take Michael Shermer: apparently, it was an open secret that he had a habit of getting young women drunk at conferences and taking them up to his room; it took a lot - including several women speaking out about being assaulted by Shermer - for him to become a pariah in the atheist community... and even still, he has his supporters.

 

[youknowme]

That's a good question.
Of course if I had the power to stop it, I would take measures to do so.
I have many options though.
It depends on what power I have. That's why I asked what you would suggest.

The only correct answer to that question would be: Yes, I would stop it. We are talking about child abuse.

 

[nPeace]

In fact, let me be the first to say that not only is there nothing to prevent it, but it is actually actively going on!

Yes, the Christian priests have had molestation, and this has a large portion to do with lack of marriages.

Hollywood is a (largely) secular organization. And they have had sex abuse scandals too.

Sex Scandals of Early Hollywood
Harvey Weinstein scandal: A complete list of the 87 accusers
Hollywood wracked by chaos in aftermath of sex scandals

The political world often is also fairly secular. Same deal.

Top 10 Political Sex Scandals | HuffPost
List of federal political sex scandals in the United States - Wikipedia
Multiple Democrats Currently Involved In Child Sex Scandals

Samantha, thousands of married men sexually abuse young girls, and boys. I don't see the problem being lack of marriage. It seems more a problem with the mind.

 

[Revoltingest]

....solution seems quite obvious: disband Christian organizations. They foster child sex abuse.

Another (legal & practical) option....
Don't treat these organizations as being so exempt from law enforcement.
And when one is caught in repeated violations, use RICO to prosecute &
disband them.

 

[9-10ths_Penguin]

Samantha, thousands of married men sexually abuse young girls, and boys. I don't see the problem being lack of marriage. It seems more a problem with the mind.

I see it as a problem with power and influence: give a religion enough power and influence for it to dictate the actions of governments, and it will use that power to protect its own reputation at the expense of victims.

Small, weak religious organizations are well-behaved religious organizations.

 

[nPeace]

The only correct answer to that question would be: Yes, I would stop it. We are talking about child abuse.

Okay. How?
...and what about animal abuse, torture, etc? How would you stop them?

 

[nPeace]

I see it as a problem with power and influence: give a religion enough power and influence for it to dictate the actions of governments, and it will use that power to protect its own reputation at the expense of victims.

Small, weak religious organizations are well-behaved religious organizations.

Why zero in on religion? I was thinking of married men in general - Prime Ministers, Military Officers, Doctors, Lawyers, Teachers, etc., etc., etc. These are a part of "small, weak religious organizations" too.

 

[youknowme]

Okay. How?
...and what about animal abuse, torture, etc? How would you stop them?

Are you saying you would do nothing to stop a child from being abused, because somewhere someone might be abusing an animal?

 

[nPeace]

Are you saying you would do nothing to stop a child from being abused, because somewhere someone might be abusing an animal?

No youknowme What I am saying, from my understanding of the Bible, God does not act like man, who just patches up problems, and don't deal with them at the root, only to realize later, when the problem resurfaces, and festers into a far more serious problem, that he didn't fix the problem - he only covered it over.
Unlike man's so-called wisdom, God's wisdom is superlative, and he has started to fix the problem in a way that it, and no other problem - including animal abuse, and torture. will ever resurface - a permanent, and complete fix.

The "how" part of the question is important. It's not a matter of "Just Do It" regardless of how it's done. That's a sloppy workman, isn't it?

 

[9-10ths_Penguin]

Why zero in on religion?

Because religious organizations tend to be the ones with the influence to hide and protect large numbers of pedophiles.

They're also often in a position to exert undue influence on people.

I was thinking of married men in general - Prime Ministers, Military Officers, Doctors, Lawyers, Teachers, etc., etc., etc. These are a part of "small, weak religious organizations" too.

I'm not sure what you're trying to say.

 

[youknowme]

No youknowme What I am saying, from my understanding of the Bible, God does not act like man, who just patches up problems, and don't deal with them at the root, only to realize later, when the problem resurfaces, and festers into a far more serious problem, that he didn't fix the problem - he only covered it over.
Unlike man's so-called wisdom, God's wisdom is superlative, and he has started to fix the problem in a way that it, and no other problem - including animal abuse, and torture. will ever resurface - a permanent, and complete fix.

The "how" part of the question is important. It's not a matter of "Just Do It" regardless of how it's done. That's a sloppy workman, isn't it?

Allowing child abuse to happen when you have the power to stop it is sloppy, reckless and immoral.