"Chicago Billboard Urges Catholics to 'Value Children Over Dogma' and Quit Church"

[A Vestigial Mote]

The other half of the billboard says in effect: "Think about it all you good Catholics, with this kind of dogma in place isn't it time to leave a church like this?" Which is no worse than the invitations of any other advertising Christian organization.

And in the end, this FFRF billboard actually has a cause behind it that is affecting the current world we live in and the state of affairs in the only life we're actually 100% guaranteed to have had. Any claim to a "good cause" any Christian billboard themed for conversion ever had was only to "save" people for a supposed after-life. And only very tangentially has anything to do with helping people in the here and now.

 

[Revoltingest]

I am going to have to ban you from having those sorts of feelings. Sorry about that.

Oh, no....you're a moderator now?
RF is going down the tubes!

 

[Subduction Zone]

Oh, no....you're a moderator now?
RF is going down the tubes!

 

[9-10ths_Penguin]

This is another unhelpful statement.
In the US and abroad, the largest groups responsible for the most child abuse scandals are social workers by a country mile, and public schools.

Source?

The solution is not to nuke these institutions, or to say that if you remain on in these institutions you're accomplices to the abuse. That's wildly inaccurate and will, as I said, only slow actual productive efforts to reform from outside and within.

The diocese here is currently fighting legal battles to avoid payouts to abuse victims as well as a legal battle with its insurer (they cancelled the diocese's policy on the grounds that the diocese misrepresented themselves and their actions to get coverage).

It's accurate to say that a share of tithes paid to a Catholic church here help to fund these activities. This doesn't make the tither an accomplice in the legal sense, but it does make donating money to the church ethically problematic.

 

[Evangelicalhumanist]

Because it's a 'leave the church or you're tacitly responsible for child abuse' argument. As if there's no other option for reform than being 100% in or 100% out. Plus the FFRF is using the kids as political leverage to enact their goal. It feels disingenuous and skeevy. And I'm 100% an atheist and in no way affiliated with the catholic church.

Well said. As an atheist myself, I could never make the argument that a few bad officers means that the entire organization should be boycotted. That would result in far too many innocents being punished for the misdeeds of the few.

 

[Kangaroo Feathers]

.

"A new billboard in Chicago encourages people to leave the Catholic Church and “value children over dogma.”

The Freedom From Religion Foundation’s text may not even be the most interesting thing about the ad. It was actually paid for by a victim of sexual abuse at the hands of a Catholic priest… with the settlement money he received from his diocese.

The billboard went up yesterday on the Kennedy Expressway west of Montrose and will be up for another month.

It couldn’t come at a better time. As we learned in December, the Attorney General’s office is investigating abuse in the Church and announced that the state’s six dioceses had been covering up allegations involving more than 500 priests and other clergy members. Another 185 priests credibly accused of abuse had already been publicly identified by the Church.

Since the Church can’t police itself, it’s up to Catholics to force their hand by walking out and taking their money with them. It’s the only way the harm against children will ever be taken seriously.
source
​

WOW!

​

Dogma isn't the problem, though. Institutional traditions of silence and management are, sure, but it's a baby/bathwater situation.

 

[Augustus]

I have no doubt this will be entirely counterproductive. Not reaching people who need to be reached and coming off as emotional blackmail to people in the middle

It's more likely to increase church attendance than decrease it.

Won't persuade anyone to renounce their faith, and attacking someone's identity tends to strengthen it.

 

[Augustus]

The message I got was that church dogma, whatever it may be, gives its clergy the impression they have permission to use others as sexual objects because they always have the opportunity to absolve themselves of such transgressions through acts of contrition. So, "the victim be damned because I can always put myself right with the lord, and that's all that counts." Through the doctrines and principles of the Church children can be considered the sexual toys of abusive priests

Do you really think priests sit there going "Normally I'd find it abhorrent to sexually abuse that child, but seeing as I can just confess and make it all right then this means God put him there as my sex toy so I'd hate to miss out on all the fun..."?

 

[Saint Frankenstein]

I agree with the billboard. I couldn't in good conscience continue to support or be a part of such an organization.

 

[Salvador]

.

"A new billboard in Chicago encourages people to leave the Catholic Church and “value children over dogma.”

The Freedom From Religion Foundation’s text may not even be the most interesting thing about the ad. It was actually paid for by a victim of sexual abuse at the hands of a Catholic priest… with the settlement money he received from his diocese.

The billboard went up yesterday on the Kennedy Expressway west of Montrose and will be up for another month.

It couldn’t come at a better time. As we learned in December, the Attorney General’s office is investigating abuse in the Church and announced that the state’s six dioceses had been covering up allegations involving more than 500 priests and other clergy members. Another 185 priests credibly accused of abuse had already been publicly identified by the Church.

Since the Church can’t police itself, it’s up to Catholics to force their hand by walking out and taking their money with them. It’s the only way the harm against children will ever be taken seriously.
source​

WOW!

​

The Catholic Church has helped more children than most any other organization. Hasn't anybody ever heard of Father Flanagan and Boys town?

 

[Skwim]

Do you really think priests sit there going "Normally I'd find it abhorrent to sexually abuse that child, but seeing as I can just confess and make it all right then this means God put him there as my sex toy so I'd hate to miss out on all the fun..."?

To tell the truth I have absolutely no idea what goes through a priest's head, but I'm pretty sure they find absolution for the abuse somewhere in their faith. Again . . . . and again . . . . and again. . . .

.

.

 

[Skwim]

The Catholic Church has helped more children than most any other organization. Hasn't anybody ever heard of Father Flanagan and Boys town?

So what? Is this suppose to excuse their sexual abuse of children? And between the Explorer Scouts/Boy Scouts/Cub Scouts/Girl Scouts/Brownies/ and the Boys and Girls Club I think they have the Catholic Church beat by a mile.

.

 

[Salvador]

So what? Is this suppose to excuse their sexual abuse of children? And between the Explorer Scouts/Boy Scouts/Cub Scouts/Girl Scouts/Brownies/ and the Boys and Girls Club I think they have the Catholic Church beat by a mile.

.

Priests aren't proven as a group to be more likely to sexually molest children than the likelihood of the overall adult male population molesting children.

This means a Cub Scout is just as likely or more likely to be sexually molested by a Cub Scout Leader than the likelihood a Catholic boy is going to get molested by a Priest.

I really enjoy Girl Scout Cookies, so this is the only reason why I gave this comment of yours a likes.

 

[Glaurung]

The message I got was that church dogma, whatever it may be, gives its clergy the impression they have permission to use others as sexual objects because they always have the opportunity to absolve themselves of such transgressions through acts of contrition. So, "the victim be damned because I can always put myself right with the lord, and that's all that counts." Through the doctrines and principles of the Church children can be considered the sexual toys of abusive priests

Latin rite clergy are obliged to live in continence (which means no sexual activity whatsoever). Unfortunately, due to a long neglect of traditional disciplines specifically designed to weed out men not capable of such a commitment the seminaries admitted untold numbers of candidates who should never have been allowed anywhere near the priesthood to begin with. For example, the rules had long stipulated that obvious homosexual tendencies constituted immediate disqualification for a priestly vocation. And this was obviously ignored to the point of criminality. (It is not a coincidence that the majority of victims were adolescent boys). The rules (at least traditionally) also stipulated the priests who committed serious sexual sins were to be immediately deprived of their clerical state. Again, this was utterly ignored for decades.

The problem wasn't Catholicism. The problem was an attitude in vogue during the mid twentieth century which in the name of 'mercy' watered down Catholicism and perpetuated the misguided idea that you could reform serial pederasts. The problem were bishops who for one reason or another were just too unwilling, too cowardly or too lazy to deal with the problem in any substantive way.

Confession isn't a blank cheque to do what you like. (That's an idiotic strawman). A valid confession requires the serious commitment to reform and not commit the same sins again. If a person is confessing pederasty every second week then he is obviously not contrite enough to receive absolution. Indeed, committing sins with the intention of confessing them later is in and of itself a sin.

Priests don't commit sexual abuse because of their Catholicism, they do it despite it. And the bishops who ignored it for decades did not do so because of their Catholicism, but despite it too concerned with their careers and not stirring the pot than doing what they were actually to ordained to do. Guard and teach the Catholic faith and to work for the spiritual good of their flocks. (Which includes taking action against scoundrel priests).

 

[Skwim]

Priests aren't proven as a group to be more likely to sexually molest children than the likelihood of the overall adult male population molesting children.

So where's your evidence?

.

 

[QuestioningMind]

This is another unhelpful statement.
In the US and abroad, the largest groups responsible for the most child abuse scandals are social workers by a country mile, and public schools. The solution is not to nuke these institutions, or to say that if you remain on in these institutions you're accomplices to the abuse. That's wildly inaccurate and will, as I said, only slow actual productive efforts to reform from outside and within.

Of course, I've never heard of either of those institutions going to great length to cover up the abuses or to shuttle abusive teachers and social workers to other schools and social welfare offices. If there was such a school district then I would definitely tell the parents that if they didn't move their child to a different district that they would be accomplices in the abuse. Furthermore, if such a district were to be uncovered you can bet that virtually everyone would be screaming to have those involved thrown in jail.

 

[Subduction Zone]

So where's your evidence?

.

In Australia the date may be as high as 7%:

7 Percent Of All Catholic Priests Were Alleged Sex Offenders: Royal Commission

 

[Salvador]

So where's your evidence?

.

The rate of abuse of priests in the comprehensive 2002 John Jay Report over about 70 years was 0.5% pedophilia among priests.. "Only 96 of the 4,329 priest offenders were classified by John Jay report as true pedophiles." ...Sexual Abuse of Minors by Catholic Clergy

This compares to an estimated 3-7 percent rate of pedophilia among the general male population. Reference: Pedophilia | Psychology Today

 

[Salvador]

In Australia the date may be as high as 7%:

7 Percent Of All Catholic Priests Were Alleged Sex Offenders: Royal Commission

In a study of U.S Priests., about 1/2 percent of them were pedophiles in comparison to an estimated 3-7 percent of the overall male U.S. population being pedophiles.

 

[Salvador]

In Australia the date may be as high as 7%:

7 Percent Of All Catholic Priests Were Alleged Sex Offenders: Royal Commission

Pedophiles sexually abuse prepubescent children; whereas sexual offenders may or may not be pedophiles. If a sex offender only sexually abuses people who are past puberty, then he isn't a pedophile.