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Chew On This, Creationists

tas8831

Well-Known Member
Others took that exploration into realms of the unprovable, making macro-evolution as much of a fantasy as they thought creation was.

Says the person that believes a tribal deity of ancient middle eastern nomads made a fully formed man from dust.

Fixated much? :rolleyes: Seriously....

It does seem like a fixation to try to get phonies to actually explain their more stupid assertions, , I guess.

Adaptation is the explanation as to how any living organism can take on new abilities or characteristics to ensure their survival. Sorry if that is not scientific enough for you. Bacteria and viruses are living things that can adapt to resist any attempt to kill them off.

Um... Great - but that is not what you claimed, is it?

Dishonest JWs? Who would have thought?

No, YOU claimed that bacteria can be "immune" to things.

im·mune
/iˈmyo͞on/
adjective
adjective: immune
resistant to a particular infection or toxin owing to the presence of specific antibodies or sensitized white blood cells.
"they were naturally immune to hepatitis B"
protected or exempt, especially from an obligation or the effects of something.
"they are immune from legal action"
synonyms: resistant, not subject, not liable, unsusceptible, not vulnerable, not open, not exposed; More


Now let us watch the desperate antics ensue, all in a sad attempt to avoid having to admit even the trivialest of errors:
Hospitals now have become the breeding ground for the "superbugs".......you've heard of these no doubt?

"Superbugs" is a term used to describe strains of bacteria that are resistant to the majority of antibiotics commonly used today. Resistant bacteria that cause pneumonia, urinary tract infections and skin infections are just a few of the dangers we now face.

Antibiotic resistance is a naturally occurring phenomenon that can be slowed, but not stopped. Over time, bacteria adapt to the drugs that are designed to kill them and change to ensure their survival. This makes previously standard treatments for bacterial infections less effective, and in some cases, ineffective."


Mayo Clinic...
Protect yourself from superbugs

"Hospital-acquired infections are caused by viral, bacterial, and fungal pathogens; the most common types are bloodstream infection (BSI), pneumonia (eg, ventilator-associated pneumonia [VAP]), urinary tract infection (UTI), and surgical site infection "(SSI).Dec 8, 2016

https://emedicine.medscape.com › article

I think we get the picture don't we? Do we need a science degree to comprehend that creation has the ability to triumph over clever human attempts to defeat it....?


Yes, we do -

Deeje the JW anti-science fanatic and egotist, having been caught claiming that bacteria can be "immune" to things, first engages in a pathetic game of avoidance, and then decides to let everyone know how little she understands about the things she rails against by doing the old bait and switch, hoping nobody will notice.

Nope - you a re wrong.

Bacteria cannot, by definition, actually BE "immune" to ANYTHING.

Resistance is NOT immunity, and I am 100% certain that you are clueless as to how bacteria can be resistant to anything on top of it.

Bacteria do not produce antibodies. They do not have white blood cells. They are single celled organisms! They CANNOT be "immune" to anything.

Why is it so hard for you to admit to even this little error you made?

We all know that you cannot understand science because you cannot handle the "jargon", so why do you present yourself as having anything of merit to say on ANY science topic? You just end up making a fool of yourself.
 

tas8831

Well-Known Member
It includes adaptation because this is also something science has observed first hand, as opposed to what it speculates "might have" happened all those millenniums ago.
Cool - so besides microbes gaining resistance to antibiotics, lets see a short list of major adaptations that JWs accept.
Life was not a fluke...it was planned from the beginning when the Creator prepared a lifeless planet to receive a multitude of beautifully designed, fully functional lifeforms. He had no time constraints and his design included the ability to adapt to changing environments.
Cool series opf unsupported assertions and special pleading.

Lets see your EVIDENCE.

We do not believe that the "days" in Genesis were 24 hour periods. The word in Hebrew can mean a span of undetermined time. God and science are not incompatible for us.
How convenient.
 

gnostic

The Lost One
We do not believe that the "days" in Genesis were 24 hour periods. The word in Hebrew can mean a span of undetermined time. God and science are not incompatible for us.
The “day” isn’t undetermined, Deeje.

It isn’t a thousand, million or billion of years. It clearly stated that “day” comprise of both “evening” and “morning”.

It repeated “and there was evening and there was morning, the [x-number] day”, 6 times in Genesis 1.

The “there was evening and there was morning” gives what definition and context of “day” is.

If Genesis 1 left out “And there was evening and there was morning” to those 6 verses, you might have some credibility, but that phrase do exist, therefore your claim day is undetermined is a false claim.

To say, “day” isn’t determined, demonstrated that you either don’t understand the context of evening and morning towards the day, or you are lying to us.

I think you are both ignorant and lying.

What is a evening and what is morning. Neither of these two words mean thousand years or more.

Why are you ignoring “And there was evening and there was morning...” that it is part of the sentence with 1st, 2nd, 3rd, 4th, 5th or 6th day.

But it isn’t the only things wrong about Genesis 1.

For instance, it say that vegetation (3rd day) existed before the sun, moon and stars (4th day), which is wrong.

It also say that birds (5th day) were created before land animals (6th), which isn’t true. Land animals, like primitive amphibians, primitive reptiles and earlier dinosaurs, all predated flying animals, especially birds, by tens of millions of years.

There were no birds before the earlier reptiles or the earlier dinosaurs.

The ordering of what exist when in Genesis 1 are wrong.
 

Deeje

Avid Bible Student
Premium Member
Says the person that believes a tribal deity of ancient middle eastern nomads made a fully formed man from dust.

Funny, I thought that science confirms that the human body is made from the very elements that are found in the earth itself.

"Almost 99% of the mass of the human body is made up of six elements: oxygen, carbon, hydrogen, nitrogen, calcium, and phosphorus. Only about 0.85% is composed of another five elements: potassium, sulfur, sodium, chlorine, and magnesium. All 11 are necessary for life.
Composition of the human body - Wikipedia

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Composition_of_the_human_body"

It does seem like a fixation to try to get phonies to actually explain their more stupid assertions, , I guess.

I always see personal attacks as a sure sign that an opposer has been defeated....it's the best form of defense when one is out of argument. Nice work.
happy0065.gif


Um... Great - but that is not what you claimed, is it?

No, YOU claimed that bacteria can be "immune" to things.

im·mune
/iˈmyo͞on/
adjective
adjective: immune
resistant to a particular infection or toxin owing to the presence of specific antibodies or sensitized white blood cells.
"they were naturally immune to hepatitis B"
protected or exempt, especially from an obligation or the effects of something.
"they are immune from legal action"
synonyms: resistant, not subject, not liable, unsusceptible, not vulnerable, not open, not exposed;

Oh, so that is why you kept plugging this?.....it's down to semantics now? I used the word "immune" in the generic sense, like it is stated above..."protected or exempt, especially from an obligation or the effects of something.
"they are immune from legal action". Did you even read that before you posted it?

Perhaps I should also highlight another word in your definition that backs up exactly what I said...."RESISTANT". These bacteria and viruses build up a "resistance" to medicines used to knock them out of action. But because they were misused, the "bugs" regrouped and developed a way to protect themselves from the drugs that used to kill them. Knowing this, clever scientists made it possible for "superbugs" to develop into strains that medicine now has no way to combat.

"Superbugs are drug-resistant infections and have been called one of the biggest threats to global health and development. The overuse of antibiotics has led to the spread of drug-resistance, and could affect millions of people around the world, especially in developing countries.
Global Superbugs — The Bureau of Investigative Journalism

https://www.thebureauinvestigates.com/projects/superbugs"


Again...nice work science.
happy0034.gif
What saved millions of people is now going to kill millions more....

Now let us watch the desperate antics ensue, all in a sad attempt to avoid having to admit even the trivialest of errors:

Now this just made me smile .....who is displaying desperation here over a triviality? Seriously......people can become so blinded by their faith in science that they fail to recognize that it is exactly the kind of faith that they accuse ID believers of having.

There is no real evidence for anything but adaptation; all they have is just assertions and suggestions...which we know are not facts. I keep getting told that there are no "facts" in science....there is just "evidence"......that happens to require scientists to interpret it.
confused0075.gif
.....no bias of course.

Deeje the JW anti-science fanatic and egotist, having been caught claiming that bacteria can be "immune" to things, first engages in a pathetic game of avoidance, and then decides to let everyone know how little she understands about the things she rails against by doing the old bait and switch, hoping nobody will notice.

Oh dear......I am not anti-science......I am against supposition masquerading as science. Science presents its beliefs in hypotheses and theories....let's not kid ourselves about the difference between fact and belief. Are the scientists accusing believers in an Intelligent Designer of something that they are guilty of themselves?
confused0006.gif


Science can also be horribly misused.....I am "anti" that as well.

This 'abstract' from an article in https://onlinelibrary.wiley.com/doi/pdf/10.1111/meta.12256
highlights what I mean....when philosophy and science 'marry'...the offspring may be horribly deformed.

"Science is our best way of finding out about the natural world, and philosophers who write about that world ought to be sensitive to the claims of our best science. There are obstacles, however, to outsiders using science well. We think philosophers are prone to misuse science: to give undue weight to results that are untested; to highlight favorable and ignore unfavorable data; to give illegitimate weight to the authority of science; to leap from scientific premises to philosophical conclusions without spelling out their relevance; to treat mere resonance between a scientific theory and a philosophical view as empirical evidence for the philosophical view. This article identifies and illustrates some of the ways in which philosophers misuse science, explains why these pitfalls are easy to fall into, and concludes with suggestions for avoiding them."

When science can't see past the end of its arrogant nose to see what damage it has done to this earth and continues to do, who can be proud of it?
What are they doing to fix the mess that they have created?

Nope - you a re wrong.

You can assert that till the cows come home...but you have no way to prove that an Intelligent Designer does not exist. The adaptive ability in all living things is programmed into their DNA. Programs require a programmer and information needs an Intelligent source. Science knows this but denies it in this one branch.
The other branches support it because they value their place in academic circles. Try denying it in that environment.
confused0060.gif


Bacteria cannot, by definition, actually BE "immune" to ANYTHING.

Then substitute the word "resistant" if you need to push the semantics.

Why is it so hard for you to admit to even this little error you made?

Wow....so this is some kind of tiny victory for your argument? I guess you have to take them where you find them....:rolleyes:

We all know that you cannot understand science because you cannot handle the "jargon", so why do you present yourself as having anything of merit to say on ANY science topic? You just end up making a fool of yourself.

So the jargon is needed to explain something to people who don't understand it? Genius!
indifferent0025.gif


I am a fool to people who can't break the science down to its bare bones. I love the sites that make science more understandable for those who don't speak the jargon.....it reveals the true underbelly of what evolutionary science is.....nothing is based on "facts"...it is based on assumptions presented as though they were facts. When you can't hide behind the jargon, then the truth is revealed in all its simplicity.

If science can't "prove" anything they claim (apart from adaptation observed in a lab,) then anything that they assume about the ability of adaptation to go beyond what science can observe, is called "belief". That is a fact. Deny it all you wish. :D You have as much of a belief system as I do.
 
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sooda

Veteran Member
The “day” isn’t undetermined, Deeje.

It isn’t a thousand, million or billion of years. It clearly stated that “day” comprise of both “evening” and “morning”.

It repeated “and there was evening and there was morning, the [x-number] day”, 6 times in Genesis 1.

The “there was evening and there was morning” gives what definition and context of “day” is.

If Genesis 1 left out “And there was evening and there was morning” to those 6 verses, you might have some credibility, but that phrase do exist, therefore your claim day is undetermined is a false claim.

To say, “day” isn’t determined, demonstrated that you either don’t understand the context of evening and morning towards the day, or you are lying to us.

I think you are both ignorant and lying.

What is a evening and what is morning. Neither of these two words mean thousand years or more.

Why are you ignoring “And there was evening and there was morning...” that it is part of the sentence with 1st, 2nd, 3rd, 4th, 5th or 6th day.

But it isn’t the only things wrong about Genesis 1.

For instance, it say that vegetation (3rd day) existed before the sun, moon and stars (4th day), which is wrong.

It also say that birds (5th day) were created before land animals (6th), which isn’t true. Land animals, like primitive amphibians, primitive reptiles and earlier dinosaurs, all predated flying animals, especially birds, by tens of millions of years.

There were no birds before the earlier reptiles or the earlier dinosaurs.

The ordering of what exist when in Genesis 1 are wrong.

Was the earth flat before the flood?

[video]
 

Deeje

Avid Bible Student
Premium Member
I am sure we have been through all of this before, but for the benefit of those who may be new to RF, lets tackle them again.....

The “day” isn’t undetermined, Deeje.

It isn’t a thousand, million or billion of years. It clearly stated that “day” comprise of both “evening” and “morning”.

It repeated “and there was evening and there was morning, the [x-number] day”, 6 times in Genesis 1.

The “there was evening and there was morning” gives what definition and context of “day” is.

If Genesis 1 left out “And there was evening and there was morning” to those 6 verses, you might have some credibility, but that phrase do exist, therefore your claim day is undetermined is a false claim.

We use the same idiom when we use the phrase....."dawn of an new era" or "the end of an era" or "in my grandfather's day".....the day and the beginning or end of a period as used in Genesis denotes just that...not the beginning and end of a 24 hour day, but a passage of time, undetermined in length.

Genesis 2:4 sums up the entire six "day" creative period as one "day". The Hebrew word is "yowm" and it can mean more than a 24 hour day....
According to Strongs Concordance, "day" (H3117) is translated can be used to mean..... day (2,008x), time (64x), chronicles (with H1697) (37x), daily (44x), ever (18x), year (14x), continually (10x), when (10x), as (10x), while (8x), full (8x), always (4x), whole (4x), alway (4x), miscellaneous (44x).

So NOT just a 24 hour period.

Psalm 116:2 e.g. says...."Because He has inclined His ear to me,
Therefore I shall call upon Him as long H3117 as I live. H3117


Psalm 143:5..."I remember the days H3117 of old;
I meditate on all Your doings;
I muse on the work of Your hands."

Proverbs 10:27...."The fear of the LORD prolongs life H3117
But the years of the wicked will be shortened."


Does it disturb you to know that the creation account can be seen in terms of millions of years?
The Bible and science can be completely compatible.

What is a evening and what is morning. Neither of these two words mean thousand years or more.

Why are you ignoring “And there was evening and there was morning...” that it is part of the sentence with 1st, 2nd, 3rd, 4th, 5th or 6th day.

Each creative period had a beginning and an end....each period was assigned to complete a portion of a vast creative work by a very organized Creator. After each period ended, God was satisfied with his accomplishments.

But it isn’t the only things wrong about Genesis 1.

For instance, it say that vegetation (3rd day) existed before the sun, moon and stars (4th day), which is wrong.

No it does not. The very first thing God said was "Let there be light".....before any living thing existed.

It also say that birds (5th day) were created before land animals (6th), which isn’t true.

It says "flying creatures" which includes everything that flies, not just birds. According to Genesis life began in the oceans. Doesn't science confirm that?

Land animals, like primitive amphibians, primitive reptiles and earlier dinosaurs, all predated flying animals, especially birds, by tens of millions of years.

There were no birds before the earlier reptiles or the earlier dinosaurs.

The ordering of what exist when in Genesis 1 are wrong.

I don't believe that the order of creation in Genesis is wrong at all. It was given to man by the one who created it, so how could it be wrong? I believe that scientists (none of whom were even in existence when creation occurred) has got it all wrong. You act as if you know the Bible when it is clear that you don't. Scientists have NO real proof for what they claim...in fact, they have no proof at all...they have assertions based on the limited knowledge they have and a great desire to be right. Trust them if you like.....I'll put my trust in the one who was there, and by his own hand created everything you see.
 

sooda

Veteran Member
I am sure we have been through all of this before, but for the benefit of those who may be new to RF, lets tackle them again.....


A lot of those Psalms were ancient Canaanite poems.

Genesis is specific about what a day is..

It repeated “and there was evening and there was morning, the [x-number] day”, 6 times in Genesis 1.

The “there was evening and there was morning” gives what definition and context of “day” is.
We use the same idiom when we use the phrase....."dawn of an new era" or "the end of an era" or "in my grandfather's day".....the day and the beginning or end of a period as used in Genesis denotes just that...not the beginning and end of a 24 hour day, but a passage of time, undetermined in length.

Genesis 2:4 sums up the entire six "day" creative period as one "day". The Hebrew word is "yowm" and it can mean more than a 24 hour day....
According to Strongs Concordance, "day" (H3117) is translated can be used to mean..... day (2,008x), time (64x), chronicles (with H1697) (37x), daily (44x), ever (18x), year (14x), continually (10x), when (10x), as (10x), while (8x), full (8x), always (4x), whole (4x), alway (4x), miscellaneous (44x).

So NOT just a 24 hour period.

Psalm 116:2 e.g. says...."Because He has inclined His ear to me,
Therefore I shall call upon Him as long H3117 as I live. H3117


Psalm 143:5..."I remember the days H3117 of old;
I meditate on all Your doings;
I muse on the work of Your hands."

Proverbs 10:27...."The fear of the LORD prolongs life H3117
But the years of the wicked will be shortened."


Does it disturb you to know that the creation account can be seen in terms of millions of years?
The Bible and science can be completely compatible.



Each creative period had a beginning and an end....each period was assigned to complete a portion of a vast creative work by a very organized Creator. After each period ended, God was satisfied with his accomplishments.



No it does not. The very first thing God said was "Let there be light".....before any living thing existed.



It says "flying creatures" which includes everything that flies, not just birds. According to Genesis life began in the oceans. Doesn't science confirm that?



I don't believe that the order of creation in Genesis is wrong at all. It was given to man by the one who created it, so how could it be wrong? I believe that scientists (none of whom were even in existence when creation occurred) has got it all wrong. You act as if you know the Bible when it is clear that you don't. Scientists have NO real proof for what they claim...in fact, they have no proof at all...they have assertions based on the limited knowledge they have and a great desire to be right. Trust them if you like.....I'll put my trust in the one who was there, and by his own hand created everything you see.
 

Deeje

Avid Bible Student
Premium Member
Was the earth flat before the flood?

[video]

Not sure I would subscribe to all that was in the video, but according to the Bible there are great possibilities concerning the world before the flood. Especially about climatic conditions, longevity and human abilities before that catastrophic event. e.g. I would like to wait 100 years before becoming a parent.....how much better to gain all that wisdom before rearing children? We wouldn't have all the messed up kids and adults we have now......oh hang on....before the flood everything was messed up anyway......I wonder what the problem was? Oh yes....it was disobedience to God.....sinful humans being influenced by other wicked humans to do awful things to each other. We haven't learned much since then, have we?

I do believe that the earth was "flatter" then than it is now because such a huge volume of water is obviously going to change the landscape. The valleys of the deep (sometimes many kilometers in depth) for example were able to contain vast amounts of water. The rest I believe was drawn up and snap frozen at the polar icecaps. Isn't that why scientists are warning about the impact of global warming? If the icecaps melt, then the earth will again be flooded. o_O

"Flat-Earthers" may have it all wrong, but I don't dismiss anything when it comes to speculation about what might have been the case in the past...none of us were there, so we can accept or deny whatever suits our belief system or worldview.

This was good though.....

images


God makes every planet in our solar system round.....except the Earth....go figure....:shrug: How do people ever circumnavigate the earth if its flat?
 

gnostic

The Lost One
We use the same idiom when we use the phrase....."dawn of an new era" or "the end of an era" or "in my grandfather's day".....the day and the beginning or end of a period as used in Genesis denotes just that...not the beginning and end of a 24 hour day, but a passage of time, undetermined in length.

Genesis 2:4 sums up the entire six "day" creative period as one "day". The Hebrew word is "yowm" and it can mean more than a 24 hour day....
According to Strongs Concordance, "day" (H3117) is translated can be used to mean..... day (2,008x), time (64x), chronicles (with H1697) (37x), daily (44x), ever (18x), year (14x), continually (10x), when (10x), as (10x), while (8x), full (8x), always (4x), whole (4x), alway (4x), miscellaneous (44x).

So NOT just a 24 hour period.

Psalm 116:2 e.g. says...."Because He has inclined His ear to me,
Therefore I shall call upon Him as long H3117 as I live. H3117


Psalm 143:5..."I remember the days H3117 of old;
I meditate on all Your doings;
I muse on the work of Your hands."

Proverbs 10:27...."The fear of the LORD prolongs life H3117
But the years of the wicked will be shortened."


Does it disturb you to know that the creation account can be seen in terms of millions of years?
The Bible and science can be completely compatible.

Re-read my reply.

I did not mention hours or 24-hour. Not once.

I only ever stated that verses in Genesis 1 say “evening” and “morning”. All 6 verses say “And there was evening and there was morning...”
  1. Genesis 1:5
  2. 1:8
  3. 1:13
  4. 1:19
  5. 1:23
  6. 1:31
A cycle of an evening and a morning does equals to a day.

Why else would evenings and mornings be mentioned at all if not to provide the proper contexts to the word yom.

What Genesis 1 say in those verses, matters, because the “And there was evening and there was morning..” provide the context to the Hebrew word yom, as actual “day”.

You talk of other verses, but they don’t have to what are written in those verses.

You again demonstrated you cannot tell the truth. You talk and claim I was referring to 24 hours when my post never hours at all.

You refused to recognize that each days are mentioned with “And there was evening and there was morning...”, which is exactly what it say, but you quotes from other chapters and other books that are not relevant.

You really don’t understand the concept of context, do you?
 

Hockeycowboy

Witness for Jehovah
Premium Member
Re-read my reply.

I did not mention hours or 24-hour. Not once.

I only ever stated that verses in Genesis 1 say “evening” and “morning”. All 6 verses say “And there was evening and there was morning...”
  1. Genesis 1:5
  2. 1:8
  3. 1:13
  4. 1:19
  5. 1:23
  6. 1:31
A cycle of an evening and a morning does equals to a day.

Why else would evenings and mornings be mentioned at all if not to provide the proper contexts to the word yom.

What Genesis 1 say in those verses, matters, because the “And there was evening and there was morning..” provide the context to the Hebrew word yom, as actual “day”.

You talk of other verses, but they don’t have to what are written in those verses.

You again demonstrated you cannot tell the truth. You talk and claim I was referring to 24 hours when my post never hours at all.

You refused to recognize that each days are mentioned with “And there was evening and there was morning...”, which is exactly what it say, but you quotes from other chapters and other books that are not relevant.

You really don’t understand the concept of context, do you?
But "evening and ... morning" was not the Hebrew day. (It went from evening to evening.) And, @ Genesis 1:16, 'Yom' is also used in the account to indicate the "light" part of a day, about 12 hrs.

So....yom is not limited to a 24-hr day interpretation.
 

Deeje

Avid Bible Student
Premium Member
Re-read my reply.

I did not mention hours or 24-hour. Not once.

I only ever stated that verses in Genesis 1 say “evening” and “morning”. All 6 verses say “And there was evening and there was morning...”
  1. Genesis 1:5
  2. 1:8
  3. 1:13
  4. 1:19
  5. 1:23
  6. 1:31
A cycle of an evening and a morning does equals to a day.

Why else would evenings and mornings be mentioned at all if not to provide the proper contexts to the word yom.

What Genesis 1 say in those verses, matters, because the “And there was evening and there was morning..” provide the context to the Hebrew word yom, as actual “day”.

You talk of other verses, but they don’t have to what are written in those verses.

You again demonstrated you cannot tell the truth. You talk and claim I was referring to 24 hours when my post never hours at all.

You refused to recognize that each days are mentioned with “And there was evening and there was morning...”, which is exactly what it say, but you quotes from other chapters and other books that are not relevant.

You really don’t understand the concept of context, do you?

Are you for real? You are arguing that I said a "24 hour day" when you never said that....and then say that "evening and morning indicate a 24 hour day"? Seriously....I am done. :confused:

"Why else would evenings and mornings be mentioned at all if not to provide the proper contexts to the word yom." Because they were the beginning and end of an undetermined period of time. :facepalm:

Go and believe whatever you like....
 

Hockeycowboy

Witness for Jehovah
Premium Member
@Deeje , I guess these skeptics think they're smarter than Isaac Newton....he had those same words (about Genesis 'lights') in his Bible, and read those same words, and he still came to the conclusion the Bible was 'authentic'. Someone has to be wrong! I know who I'm picking.

Luke 10:21 is so apropos!
 

Subduction Zone

Veteran Member
@Deeje , I guess these skeptics think they're smarter than Isaac Newton....he had those same words (about Genesis 'lights') in his Bible, and read those same words, and he still came to the conclusion the Bible was 'authentic'. Someone has to be wrong! I know who I'm picking.

Luke 10:21 is so apropos!
One does not need to be "smarter than Newton" to be able to see his errors. The times that people.live in can make them blind to some pretty obvious errors.
 

gnostic

The Lost One
It says "flying creatures" which includes everything that flies, not just birds. According to Genesis life began in the oceans. Doesn't science confirm that?

Perhaps, someone who understand Hebrew can correct me if I am wrong, but as far as I understand it, the Hebrew word owpf or ôf (עוֹף) used in Genesis 1:20-22, is “bird”, not just simply “flying creature”. It isn’t insect or bat.

KJV translated as fowl, but fowl is broad, but specific types of birds, of various families, genera and species. But while all fowl are birds, not all birds are fowl.

Hawks, falcons and eagles are not fowl. Nor are crows, sparrows, finches, etc. And while ostriches, emus and penguins have wings, they cannot fly, and they are definitely not fowl.
 

tas8831

Well-Known Member
Funny, I thought that science confirms that the human body is made from the very elements that are found in the earth itself.
Even funnier - seeing as how you think Jehovah created living things from dust, then humans, the dust could not have contained 'the very elements', since dust is primarily silicates.
"Almost 99% of the mass of the human body is made up of six elements: oxygen, carbon, hydrogen, nitrogen, calcium, and phosphorus. Only about 0.85% is composed of another five elements: potassium, sulfur, sodium, chlorine, and magnesium. All 11 are necessary for life.
Composition of the human body - Wikipedia

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Composition_of_the_human_body"
Silicates contain only silicon and oxygen.

How did Jehovah make, say, sphingomyelin from silicate?
I always see personal attacks as a sure sign that an opposer has been defeated....it's the best form of defense when one is out of argument. Nice work.
Wow, good one. I see people claiming victory when their history shows their inability to adequately address topics to be hilarious.
Oh, so that is why you kept plugging this?.....it's down to semantics now?

Right, 'semantics' - says the person that rejects science because it has too much "jargon"...
I used the word "immune" in the generic sense, like it is stated above..."protected or exempt, especially from an obligation or the effects of something.
"they are immune from legal action". Did you even read that before you posted it?

I read this:

It is because of adaptation that many diseases that were previously cured by antibiotics, are now coming back stronger and immune to the antibiotics because the drugs were over-prescribed and the bacteria have armed themselves for their preservation and become untreatable "superbugs".​

And this:

Last time I looked it was called adaptation. The ability to alter some feature of an organism to allow it to survive in a changed environment. Bacteria are able to make themselves immune to things like antibiotics by adapting to how they respond to them.

Its what has created the "superbugs" we now see claiming hospitals as their main breeding ground. If you are sick, the last place you want to be these days is a hospital. Clever little bugs. The future is looking grim because of human stupidity....along with the misuse of science. So who is dumb?​


And this:

Don't we see the same thing with bacteria? They adapted to antibiotics by making themselves immune to them.​

And the context does not indicate or imply that you REALLY meant "protected or exempt, especially from an obligation or the effects of something. "they are immune from legal action". But that is a nice act of trying to save face. If that is what you REALLY meant, it seems you could have written that the first time I asked. And since you didn't, I do not believe this face saving nonsense.

But I suppose we can chalk this up to the fact that you have no real understanding of medical science, or biology in general - too much jargon, I guess. Because in biology, "immune" has a specific meaning.
Again...nice work science.
happy0034.gif
What saved millions of people is now going to kill millions more....
Well, there is always 'thoughts and prayers'... That TOTALLY works...
Now let us watch the desperate antics ensue, all in a sad attempt to avoid having to admit even the trivialest of errors:
Now this just made me smile .....who is displaying desperation here over a triviality?

Why, YOU still are.

Seriously......people can become so blinded by their faith in science that they fail to recognize that it is exactly the kind of faith that they accuse ID believers of having.
Right... So says the jargon-phobe.
There is no real evidence for anything but adaptation; all they have is just assertions and suggestions.
Quite a little system you have set up for yourself out of desperation -
You ask for evidence, yet when you receive it, you dismiss it because of too much "jargon", then you go back to claiming 'no evidence'. Does being a creationist make one this dishonest, or are dishonest people drawn to YECism?
....no bias of course.
And you know bias.
Oh dear......I am not anti-science.

You really are. Well, you are anti-science when it comes to that science which contradicts the rantings of ancient middle eastern numerologists and the like.
.....I am against supposition masquerading as science. Science presents its beliefs in hypotheses and theories....let's not kid ourselves about the difference between fact and belief.
Not only are you anti-science, you are demonstrably ignorant of its basic concepts. As indicated in that sentence above.
Are the scientists accusing believers in an Intelligent Designer of something that they are guilty of themselves?
No, not at all.

Not that you can tell. Brainwashing is powerful stuff.
When science can't see past the end of its arrogant nose to see what damage it had done to this earth and continues to do, who can be proud of it?

Can religionists see past the ends of their arrogant noses? Seems not.
Nope - you a re wrong.

You can assert that till the cows come home...but you have no way to prove that an Intelligent Designer does not exist.
Apparently, people like you have no real evidence that it DOES. All you have is supposition and desire for it to be so. I have no need to rely on such silliness when there IS evidence for natural processes doing things that ancient middle eastern mystics ascribed to their made-up deities.
The adaptive ability in all living things is programmed into their DNA.
Whats this? An UNSUPPORTED assertion?

SHOW
YOUR
EVIDENCE
Programs require a programmer and information needs an Intelligent source.
More assertions. Funny how you pretend to see all the shortcomings in everyone else's position, yet when it comes to your silly mythology, suddenly merely proclaiming it makes it so.

Science knows this but denies it in this one branch.

And the conspiracy.

Programs and information are both HUMAN contrivances, didn't you learn that in JW school?

AT BEST, all this ID mumbo jumbo can only indicate HUMAN intelligence.

Are you claiming Yahweh is a human?
The other branches support it because they value their place in academic circles. Try denying it in that environment.
What are you rambling on about?
Then substitute the word "resistant" if you need to push the semantics.
I am not pushing semantics, it is just that you are too ignorant of biology to understand that words have specific meanings in particular contexts, and seeing as how I first asked for clarification MONTHS ago and you are only now conjuring up this 'semantics' thing, it tells me that you fabricated it to save face after realizing you really are wrong.
So the jargon is needed to explain something to people who don't understand it? Genius!
And there you go with you "jargon" argument. If you were as intelligent and well read as you hope people will think, you wouldn't need to have everything dumbed-down for you.
I am a fool to people who can't break the science down to its bare bones.
No, you are a fool for claiming to have the intellectual ability to not only understand all the evidence presented for evolution, but to have been able to refute it, even as you are then exposed as being unable to actually read and understand the very science you pretend to have been able to refute.

Your antics may work on your fellow JWs, but it fails when trying to pull one over on people that know the material better than you - and who do not need it presented at a 5th grade level.
 

SkepticThinker

Veteran Member
There is no real evidence for anything but adaptation; all they have is just assertions and suggestions...which we know are not facts. I keep getting told that there are no "facts" in science....there is just "evidence"......that happens to require scientists to interpret it.
confused0075.gif
.....no bias of course.



.
How is it that you are still saying this. I mean, seriously, it's unbelievable.
 

SkepticThinker

Veteran Member
I am sure we have been through all of this before, but for the benefit of those who may be new to RF, lets tackle them again.....



We use the same idiom when we use the phrase....."dawn of an new era" or "the end of an era" or "in my grandfather's day".....the day and the beginning or end of a period as used in Genesis denotes just that...not the beginning and end of a 24 hour day, but a passage of time, undetermined in length.

Genesis 2:4 sums up the entire six "day" creative period as one "day". The Hebrew word is "yowm" and it can mean more than a 24 hour day....
According to Strongs Concordance, "day" (H3117) is translated can be used to mean..... day (2,008x), time (64x), chronicles (with H1697) (37x), daily (44x), ever (18x), year (14x), continually (10x), when (10x), as (10x), while (8x), full (8x), always (4x), whole (4x), alway (4x), miscellaneous (44x).

So NOT just a 24 hour period.

Psalm 116:2 e.g. says...."Because He has inclined His ear to me,
Therefore I shall call upon Him as long H3117 as I live. H3117


Psalm 143:5..."I remember the days H3117 of old;
I meditate on all Your doings;
I muse on the work of Your hands."

Proverbs 10:27...."The fear of the LORD prolongs life H3117
But the years of the wicked will be shortened."


Does it disturb you to know that the creation account can be seen in terms of millions of years?
The Bible and science can be completely compatible.



Each creative period had a beginning and an end....each period was assigned to complete a portion of a vast creative work by a very organized Creator. After each period ended, God was satisfied with his accomplishments.



No it does not. The very first thing God said was "Let there be light".....before any living thing existed.



It says "flying creatures" which includes everything that flies, not just birds. According to Genesis life began in the oceans. Doesn't science confirm that?



I don't believe that the order of creation in Genesis is wrong at all. It was given to man by the one who created it, so how could it be wrong? I believe that scientists (none of whom were even in existence when creation occurred) has got it all wrong. You act as if you know the Bible when it is clear that you don't. Scientists have NO real proof for what they claim...in fact, they have no proof at all...they have assertions based on the limited knowledge they have and a great desire to be right. Trust them if you like.....I'll put my trust in the one who was there, and by his own hand created everything you see.
Sounds made up.
 

SkepticThinker

Veteran Member
@Deeje , I guess these skeptics think they're smarter than Isaac Newton....he had those same words (about Genesis 'lights') in his Bible, and read those same words, and he still came to the conclusion the Bible was 'authentic'. Someone has to be wrong! I know who I'm picking.

Luke 10:21 is so apropos!
Again with the Isaac Newton. Are you under the impression that everybody must accept everything single thing Isaac Newton ever said or believed about anything, simply because he was a genius in one area of study? Why?:shrug::shrug:
And why do you think you're making some kind of slam dunk point every time you bring him up (which is a LOT)?
 

Deeje

Avid Bible Student
Premium Member
How is it that you are still saying this. I mean, seriously, it's unbelievable.

I am saying it because it is true. How many times have I been told that "there are no facts in science"?

Sounds made up.

So does evolution when it goes beyond what is provable. Adaptation is not 'evolution' in the sense that science wants to make it out to be. There is a line between what is observable and therefore "provable" and what is assumed and suggested on biasedly interpreted "evidence". All life did not spring from a single celled organism. That is fantasy that requires a great deal of faith and belief.

You can believe whatever you wish.....I will believe that the evidence points to Intelligent Design, way more that it points to undirected chance being responsible for all the complex, interconnected lifeforms and ecological systems we see in nature.
 

ImmortalFlame

Woke gremlin
I am saying it because it is true. How many times have I been told that "there are no facts in science"?
I was curious about this question, so I did a quick search and found out something very interesting. Here's every post that comes up when you use the search function to look for the phrase "there are no facts in science" in the Evolution vs. Creationism forum:

March 27, 2019
#139 -Deeje
How many times have I been told that "there are no facts in science"? So does evolution when it goes ...

March 26, 2019
#124 -Deeje
I keep getting told that there are no "facts" in science....there is just "evidence"....

August 28, 2017
#1,000+ -Deeje
"Appears to be" is not a statement of fact and neither is "might have" or "could have"......there are no facts in science as you all keep telling me. If they are not 'facts' they are 'assumptions'...educated guesses, at ...

November 13, 2018
#1000+ - Deeje
I keep getting told that there are no "facts" in science.....well, there are no "facts" in my belief system either. Your belief system has as much "proof" as mine. I hope that I have demonstrated that for the benefit ...

May 04, 2018
#29 - Deeje
The scientists here keep telling me that there are no facts in science....so why is it taught as if it were fact and not pure speculation? I don't know any students who are taught that evolution cannot be proven. Its about ...

May 05, 2018
#104 - Deeje
It can't be called science fact because "there are no facts in science", so they keep telling me.....so it must be science fiction masquerading as something it isn't. If you can't prove it...it isn't a fact. Heaven forbid ...

June 27, 2018
#143 - Deeje
All that volume is not provable and therefore there are no "facts" in science. How is it taught as truth when it is only suggestion supported by biased interpretation of evidence? No they are not. The arguments against ID ...

April 27, 2018
#44 - Deeje
There are no facts in science...or so everyone keeps telling me. Having read quite a lot of articles and links provided to me over the years, it has been reinforced time and again that when science does not have real facts ...

April 23, 2017
#16 - Deeje
You all blindly accept what you are told in spite of the fact that there are no facts in science....because, as you said, "Science does not prove anything"...... Who told you that Genesis was based on Babylonian myths ...

October 12, 2009
#122 -Man of Faith
There are no facts in science.

SOURCE: https://www.religiousforums.com/thr...E ARE NO FACTS IN SCIENCE" forum:"65"&tab=409

So, Deeje, the answer to your question is NOT ONCE IN THE ENTIRE HISTORY OF THIS FORUM, and the only person who has ever used the phrase "there are no facts in science"... is you. Literally nobody else on these forums has used that phrase except one creationist ten years ago.
 
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