Characteristics of a Conservative Utopia (CU)

[joe1776]

Yes. I "waste" my vote for every presidential election and will continue to do so.

I hereby apologize to all my fellow Americans for being principled.

Well, of course, I think that it is both principled and smart to vote for the best candidate among those with a chance to win.

 

[tytlyf]

There are statist conservatives and libertarian conservatives. The statists want the federal government to ban abortion, gay marriage, remove protections from LGBTQ people and crack down on those who protest business misdeeds.

Does this explain why Libertarians always vote Republican? I'm not referring to anything Libertarian. Only the policies that conservatives overwhelmingly support.

The libertarian right is OK with personal choices in many matters but tends to oppose restrictions on business. The loony libertarian right wants to eliminate environmental protection, provisions against monopolies, protections for workers and so forth.

I'm not discussing anything libertarian. I don't focus on tiny percentages and outliers, I'm only interested in evidence and the overwhelming support.

@tytlyf is describing the loony right which is an ever growing population now starting to officially embrace outright fanatical lunacy (Qanon Congressional Member for example).

As mentioned multiple times and even in the OP, the societal structure I listed was based on Republican policies in America. Are you disagreeing with that?

If so, please point to a single example and correct it. Thanks.

 

[tytlyf]

Even US conservatives can't seem to agree though. They throw each other under the bus all the time and there appear many brands of conservatism in the US alone.

Regardless if they all agree, they're all there voting for these same republican policies.
Is the problem people are having that they don't understand the policies put forth by Republican elected officials?
Because everything I've noticed republicans/capitalists/corporatists doing is pushing privatization of everything. Even SS.

Which makes sense, since that's the essence of Capitalism.

 

[Rival]

Regardless if they all agree, they're all there voting for these same republican policies.

But you just said you vote for who you think will win, not necessarily with whom you agree. So by your own logic they don't actually agree with the candidate's policies, hence no uniform utopia.

 

[tytlyf]

But you just said you vote for who you think will win, not necessarily with whom you agree. So by your own logic they don't actually agree with the candidate's policies, hence no uniform utopia.

No, what you're essentially saying is the conservative base who votes for Republican policies doesn't know what they're actually voting for.
Why do you take so much offense at a thread that only highlights republican policies in congress? I didn't claim they were conservative policies, they vote for those policies by republicans. And adopt them.
Conservatives agree with republican policies versus democratic policies. That's not up for debate.

 

[Rival]

No, what you're essentially saying is the conservative base who votes for Republican policies doesn't know what they're actually voting for.

You said this:

I didn't support Bernie either, because he wouldn't have got the votes to win.

Thereby intimating that you didn't necessarily agree with the policies of whomever you did vote for; you just voted out of convivence. So now you've told me you do this, you have no room to argue that everyone else who votes for a major candidate agrees with all the policies of that candidate either, not that they don't understand them. So your initial claim that the majority of US conservatives believe X is also clearly false.

 

[Daemon Sophic]

.....
The rest has been pointless squacking about how they consider your views, (formulated on historical records in the US regarding conservative policies and beliefs), as misrepresentative of “conservative” views.
....
.

I think it's cute that you assume that since I have a problem with virulent nature of the OP that my views are conservative.

There, I corrected my post. You (and your ever mysterious political leanings are not necessarily included).

For the record: Five pages into the thread, and still just the silence of falling snowflakes.

 

[epronovost]

You said this:

Thereby intimating that you didn't necessarily agree with the policies of whomever you did vote for; you just voted out of convivence. So now you've told me you do this, you have no room to argue that everyone else who votes for a major candidate agrees with all the policies of that candidate either, not that they don't understand them. So your initial claim that the majority of US conservatives believe X is also clearly false.

I do think you have made a good point there that demonstrate that conservatives in the US are indeed far from being monolithic, but I think you are taking it a tad bit too far in denying that there is such a thing as a "majority of conservatives" sharing almost identical views on pretty much everything with a few details short. That, I think, still exists. This is simply not an overwhelming majority, but we might get into hair splitting at that point.

 

[SalixIncendium]

There, I corrected my post. You (and your ever mysterious political leanings are not necessarily included).

For the record: Five pages into the thread, and still just the silence of falling snowflakes.

Ooh! Pretty!!

 

[Rival]

I do think you have made a good point there that demonstrate that conservatives in the US are indeed far from being monolithic, but I think you are taking it a tad bit too far in denying that there is such a thing as a "majority of conservatives" sharing almost identical views on pretty much everything with a few details short. That, I think, still exists. This is simply not an overwhelming majority, but we might get into hair splitting at that point.

Probably. I'm not sure how it works in the US but in the UK the different parties change their economic policies with each election, so to say every conservative agrees with the Republicans is saying to me that every time the Republicans change their view, this mass of conservative voters also change their views to match, which seems highly unlikely to me. Over here, party conservatism isn't even what it was 10 years ago.

 

[tytlyf]

You said this:

Thereby intimating that you didn't necessarily agree with the policies of whomever you did vote for; you just voted out of convivence. So now you've told me you do this, you have no room to argue that everyone else who votes for a major candidate agrees with all the policies of that candidate either, not that they don't understand them. So your initial claim that the majority of US conservatives believe X is also clearly false.

I didn't support Bernie for 2 reasons in 2020.
1. Heart-attack
2. Wouldn't beat Trump

I like Bernie's policies, don't have much against most of them. But I don't consider myself a liberal, more moderate.
But the moderate part is there because that's what it takes to win National elections.
Bernie would have put Trump in the WH another 4 years.
Strictly due to 1 thing, the propaganda machine on the RR.
So many voters would have been scared to death away from Bernie that he would lose.
Think about it, they call Biden a marxist/communist/socialist. (based on no evidence)
Bernie would have been eaten alive because of his verifiable baggage.
Same reason I voted for Hillary, she was the responsible/patriotic choice. Some of us care more about the country than our party.

 

[sun rise]

Does this explain why Libertarians always vote Republican?

People have a sad history of voting against what they say they believe in and what they say they care about. I suspect that most of that is tribalism. I also suspect that some of that is money worship and by extension veneration of the wealthy.

But to think about the OP question, I have to consider the complexity of libertarians. For example, I endorse "civil libertarianism" and sympathetic to "libertarian socialism" 10 Different Types of Libertarianism but I don't fall in the categories of "fiscal", "neo" and am wishy-washy on "classical". But since @Revoltingest has asserted I'm no "true libertarian", I did not include me and others like me in my comments.

As mentioned multiple times and even in the OP, the societal structure I listed was based on Republican policies in America. Are you disagreeing with that?

Basically no but it's not universal. We do have consumer product safety and other laws which the right keeps trying to weaken. So there are some classically left organizations around.

 

[SomeRandom]

I don’t think the OP is wrong, guys. I mean this does seem like a reasonable conclusion to make regarding economic fiscal policies supported by the Republicans, who are your conservatives. Granted I hasten to point out there are many different flavours of conservatism even within fiscal only conservatives positions. And that perhaps due to the nature of the two party system, many fiscally conservative people who might not support all the OP pointed out may still vote Republican. Due to lack of nuance regarding voting choices.
That’s not even taking into account fiscally conservative but socially liberal people. Like Kelsey Grammer is a known life long Republican, but openly voiced support for same sex marriage.

Though it’s odd to me that the “Alt right” do not seem to give a damn about policies when it comes to politics. It’s just about shows of “strength” and “fighting back.”
That’s not even an American only thing either.

And then there’s your evangelicals. They are horrifyingly fascinating to me. Not sure which policies they support specifically though.

Not sure where I’d end up in the US political spectrum. Since both parties seem so conservative to me.

 

[Shadow Wolf]

Would this be an accurate representation of a CU or would there be government interference in certain aspects of life? This is an opinion thread

It's an accurate representation of how very little you actually understand fiscal Conservative ideology.

 

[Shadow Wolf]

Which on the OP's list misrepresents conservatives in your opinion?

Why don't you try reading some Conservative literature and found out. Even some of Milton Friedman's shorter works will show the OP is showing something that looks more like Nozick's "Anatchy, State and Utopia," and even he would later write he saw some major issues in that text.

 

[epronovost]

I wouldn't call Kelsey Grammer as "socially liberal" de to his anti-environmentalist position, his opposition to univerrsal basic public services in education and healthcare, his opposition on abortion and his support for unhinged creationists and religious fundamentalists like Michele Bachmann and the Tea Party in general.

 

[Rival]

I wouldn't call Kelsey Grammer as "socially liberal" de to his anti-environmentalist position, his opposition to univerrsal basic public services in education and healthcare, his opposition on abortion and his support for unhinged creationists and religious fundamentalists like Michele Bachmann and the Tea Party in general.

Don't know why it's quoting me; SW said this.

 

[epronovost]

Don't know why it's quoting me; SW said this.

Poor edit, my mistake. Sorry.

 

[Rival]

I'm socially conservative and economically somewhat left in that I support socialised healthcare, strong welfare, free school meals etc. What would that make me?

 

[tytlyf]

I'm socially conservative and economically somewhat left in that I support socialised healthcare, strong welfare, free school meals etc. What would that make me?

You sound like someone who likes middle class policies. As do I.
The only thing missing from the equation is explaining what 'socially conservative' means?
Are you referring to your personal friends and being surrounded by many conservatives and Trump supporters?