Characteristics of a Conservative Utopia (CU)

[joe1776]

'Conservative' isn't just an economic identifier though. Let's suggest these folks somehow miraculously agree on all their economic policies. What about social conservatism? Are they all going to agree to ban elective abortions? Same-sex marriage? Are they going to encourage gender roles? Religion? The list goes on.

There is no such thing as a conservative paradise. I have never met two political thinkers who thought the exact same thing, it's absurd.

The OP refers almost entirely to privatization-for profit and free market theory. This is economic conservatism in the USA.

Social conservatism isn't a factor in this discussion. That's a topic for a different debate.

 

[Rival]

The OP refers almost entirely to privatization-for profit and free market theory. This is economic conservatism in the USA.

Social conservatism isn't a factor in this discussion. That's a topic for a different debate.

It seems a bit unfair that he's allowed to use one narrow definition of conservative, from one part of politics, to define a whole ideology/paradise.

 

[sun rise]

I don't think either of you even attempt to understand
your counterparts on the opposite side of the aisle.

Your perception of me is your problem not mine.

 

[Revoltingest]

Your perception of me is your problem not mine.

No problem at all.
I'm here to help extremists on both the left & right see the light.
Neither side is all good or all evil.
Seek out merit, & ye shall find.

 

[SalixIncendium]

It is a worthy OP @tytlyf . We are two (sorry, now 3) pages in, and only @epronovost has even remotely tried to answer your question. The rest has been pointless squacking about how they consider your views, (formulated on historical records in the US regarding conservative policies and beliefs), as misrepresentative of their views.

I think it's cute that you assume that since I have a problem with virulent nature of the OP that my views are conservative.

 

[Revoltingest]

I think it's cute that you assume that since I have a problem with virulent nature of the OP that my views are conservative.

You're a raging conservative?
Dang, I thought you were a raging commie.
I'm OK either way...at least you're raging.

 

[Rival]

Goodness knows what I am in US politics...

 

[joe1776]

It seems a bit unfair that he's allowed to use one narrow definition of conservative, from one part of politics, to define a whole ideology/paradise.

It's not unfair, IMO, because the way in which we provide shelter, food, clothing, healthcare, security and other essentials to the citizenry is the foundation on which a society rests.

I wouldn't have used the word Utopia but the OP made his point in an interesting way, so I see attacks that he implied more than economic conservatism as nit-picking.

 

[SalixIncendium]

You're a raging conservative?
Dang, I thought you were a raging commie.
I'm OK either way...at least you're raging.

That's the point. Very few people know what my political leanings are here because I make it a point not to talk about them.

 

[Revoltingest]

That's the point. Very few people know what my political leanings are here because I make it a point not to talk about them.

I must be good at keeping mine secret too.
Just yesterday someone told me I'm a Christian.
(Real Christians were horrified.)

 

[Rival]

It's not unfair, IMO, because the way in which we provide shelter, food, clothing, healthcare and other essentials to the citizenry is the foundation on which a society rests.

I wouldn't have used the word Utopia but the OP made his point in an interesting way, so I see attacks that he implied more than economic conservatism as nit-picking.

It is not a utopia because this is simply not how societies work in the real world. There's more to them than economics; social policy is a must, and it absolutely comes into issues like shelter, food, healthcare etc. Who do we give those to? Are immigrants entitled to these things? What about the abortion issue I mentioned? You simply cannot have an economic policy without a social aspect as well, because societies are multilayered and comprised of different needs. Economics alone won't deal with that, so yes, calling it anything like a paradise is inane.

 

[tytlyf]

Sounds like hell on Earth.

Tourism wouldn't be a big industry. But I could be wrong.

 

[tytlyf]

I think that's unfair.
The OP is the leading liberal light on RF.
If ever I become woke, you'll have this
thread to thank.

I don't consider myself liberal. I've always stated I'm more a moderate Democrat. I didn't support Bernie either, because he wouldn't have got the votes to win.

 

[tytlyf]

The loony left telling us what conservatives believe....

No, telling you how conservatives vote and the policies they support by an overwhelmingly majority of their movement.
How someone votes and the policies they support isn't a secret and it's definitely not a belief.

 

[SalixIncendium]

I don't consider myself liberal. I've always stated I'm more a moderate Democrat. I didn't support Bernie either, because he wouldn't have got the votes to win.

Interesting. I support people because of their views, not because of their likelihood of victory.

 

[joe1776]

It is not a utopia because this is simply not how societies work in the real world. There's more to them than economics; social policy is a must, and it absolutely comes into issues like shelter, food, healthcare etc. Who do we give those to? Are immigrants entitled to these things? What about the abortion issue I mentioned? You simply cannot have an economic policy without a social aspect as well, because societies are multilayered and comprised of different needs. Economics alone won't deal with that, so yes, calling it anything like a paradise is inane.

As I said earlier, I would not have used the word Utopia. The word promises more than the OP covered. I agree that there's more to a society than economics. But the point you're minimizing is that a society has to get the economics handled effectively before tackling the other social problems because MOST of the social problems we have will disappear when the economic problems are solved.
When citizens can no longer be divided into groups and labeled rich or poor, we'll be well on our way to Utopia.

 

[Wandering Monk]

Do working class conservatives have legitimate grievances that should be addressed? I am speaking economically and socially.

 

[joe1776]

Interesting. I support people because of their views, not because of their likelihood of victory.

You've hit upon one of the flaws in choosing decision-makers by democratic elections. If your candidate has little chance of winning, you've wasted your vote no matter how good the candidate.

 

[SalixIncendium]

You've hit upon one of the flaws in choosing decision-makers by democratic elections. If your candidate has little chance of winning, you've wasted your vote no matter how good the candidate.

Yes. I "waste" my vote for every presidential election and will continue to do so.

I hereby apologize to all my fellow Americans for being principled.

 

[Wandering Monk]

It would be nice if we had ranked voting at all levels of government. Maybe our second choices would be elected.