Characteristics of a Conservative Utopia (CU)

[Daemon Sophic]

No, this is a caricature of conservative beliefs; especially as if there is only one kind of conservative.

Full disclosure, this is the kind of toxic dumpster fire garbage that lead some here to want to see the political forums disappear completely.

That is not conservative. That is as others pointed out anarcho-capitalistic. You forget that the courts should also be private and for-profit.

Good caricature of liberal beliefs, too.

Garbage

It is a worthy OP @tytlyf . We are two (sorry, now 3) pages in, and only @epronovost has even remotely tried to answer your question. The rest has been pointless squacking about how they consider your views, (formulated on historical records in the US regarding conservative policies and beliefs), as misrepresentative of “conservative” views.

Makes me think that they need to reexamine themselves and more particularly the GOP which actually does represent their conservative beliefs and desires in the US governmant.

Yes. And thereby you overdid it.

Then post your alternative ideas.

Of course it is but the benighted knuckledraggers are disinclined to
learn or understand.

So much easier to seize the moral high
ground powered by imagination and prejudice.

Impress me.
Or at least try.

 

[mikkel_the_dane]

The OP didn't list making the courts private for profit. And the idea of privatizing the police has been floated. I'm not certain the MOST conservatives favor it. But the list overall is pretty solid, IMO.

I think we have to recognize that the label conservate in the USA covers different opinion in the USA and Europe.

No, you still have European stile conservatives in the US. At least in the Northeast.

 

[Rival]

The OP didn't list making the courts private for profit. And the idea of privatizing the police has been floated. I'm not certain the MOST conservatives favor it. But the list overall is pretty solid, IMO.

I think we have to recognize that the label Conservative in the USA covers groups with different opinions in the USA and Europe.

I listed that as "Justice: Private, for-profit"

 

[Rival]

The bottom line is, It's impossible to describe a 'conservative paradise' in any country because there's no homogenous bunch of 'conservatives' and any attempt at such a hypothetical paradise will be a caricature and a failure.

 

[mikkel_the_dane]

It is a worthy OP @tytlyf . We are two (sorry, now 3) pages in, and only @epronovost has even remotely tried to answer your question. The rest has been pointless squacking about how they consider your views, (formulated on historical records in the US regarding conservative policies and beliefs), as misrepresentative of their views.

Makes me think that they need to reexamine themselves and more particularly the GOP which actually does represent their conservative beliefs and desires in the US governmant.

I am a social democrat Scandinavian style.

Then post your alternative ideas.

A combination of government and private cooperation. We can flesh it out, if you want to.

 

[joe1776]

OK, didn't see that. I'd quibble on that one but overall the OP was accurate, IMO.

 

[Revoltingest]

The loony left telling us what conservatives believe....
It so reminds me of the many times Christians have
told me how I'm a tool of Satan, without morality, &
were it not for the rule of law, I'd be out stealing
puppies to BBQ.
And always we get these analyses without their
ever asking questions of their opponents.

 

[Revoltingest]

I am a social democrat Scandinavian style.



A combination of government and private cooperation. We can flesh it out, if you want to.

Can it be done here minus the lutefisk, hakarl, & surstromming?

 

[mikkel_the_dane]

Can it be done here minus the lutefisk & surstromming?

I don't know. You could try, but it requires compromise.

 

[joe1776]

The bottom line is, It's impossible to describe a 'conservative paradise' in any country because there's no homogenous bunch of 'conservatives' and any attempt at such a hypothetical paradise will be a caricature and a failure.

Disagree. We can identify the opinions of the majority of ANY group and then project their ideal economic system. That's what the OP did.

 

[Rival]

Disagree. We can identify the opinions of the majority of ANY group and then project their ideal economic system. That's what the OP did.

'Conservative' isn't just an economic identifier though. Let's suggest these folks somehow miraculously agree on all their economic policies. What about social conservatism? Are they all going to agree to ban elective abortions? Same-sex marriage? Are they going to encourage gender roles? Religion? The list goes on.

There is no such thing as a conservative paradise. I have never met two political thinkers who thought the exact same thing, it's absurd.

 

[epronovost]

The bottom line is, It's impossible to describe a 'conservative paradise' in any country because there's no homogenous bunch of 'conservatives' and any attempt at such a hypothetical paradise will be a caricature and a failure.

I agree with that, but I think the OP made it clear that he wanted to talk about the US brands of conservatism and its potential utopia. Of course conservatives in Pakistan and conservatives in France will have radically different approach since those two countries have a different culture and a different history.

I still think that by observing the dominant current in philosophy and politics in any given country it's possible to extrapolate an ideal society for the "big tent" of conservatism despite differences within this "big tent", something that would be deemed ideal by the majority or strong plurality of conservatives and "acceptable" for the rest and only objectionable to small enough minority not to jeopardise the utopia.

 

[sun rise]

I am doing what Republicans want America's system to look like. So it's only natural to assume a CU would envision the same policies.

There are statist conservatives and libertarian conservatives. The statists want the federal government to ban abortion, gay marriage, remove protections from LGBTQ people and crack down on those who protest business misdeeds.

The libertarian right is OK with personal choices in many matters but tends to oppose restrictions on business. The loony libertarian right wants to eliminate environmental protection, provisions against monopolies, protections for workers and so forth.

The bottom line is, It's impossible to describe a 'conservative paradise' in any country because there's no homogenous bunch of 'conservatives' and any attempt at such a hypothetical paradise will be a caricature and a failure.

The loony left

@tytlyf is describing the loony right which is an ever growing population now starting to officially embrace outright fanatical lunacy (Qanon Congressional Member for example).

 

[Revoltingest]

I don't know. You could try, but it requires compromise.

Despite being an extremist & a fringe party guy,
I'm all about compromise.

 

[Audie]

The bottom line is, It's impossible to describe a 'conservative paradise' in any country because there's no homogenous bunch of 'conservatives' and any attempt at such a hypothetical paradise will be a caricature and a failure.

Enough of odious ideologs and their gish.
Time for some sleep.

 

[Rival]

I agree with that, but I think the OP made it clear that he wanted to talk about the US brands of conservatism and its potential utopia. Of course conservatives in Pakistan and conservatives in France will have radically different approach since those two countries have a different culture and a different history.

Even US conservatives can't seem to agree though. They throw each other under the bus all the time and there appear many brands of conservatism in the US alone.

 

[Revoltingest]

@tytlyf is describing the loony right which is an ever growing population now starting to officially embrace outright fanatical lunacy (Qanon Congressional Member for example).

I don't think either of you even attempt to understand
your counterparts on the opposite side of the aisle.

 

[Daemon Sophic]

I am a social democrat Scandinavian style.



A combination of government and private cooperation. We can flesh it out, if you want to.

Part of the beauty of this type of thread is that it should, with even semi-intelligent readers, make the conservative reader introspect, and consider how exactly the GOP in the United States has been representing their wishes over the last 40 to 50 years.
If they did that, then I think many or even most of them would realize that their representatives (the GOP) parted ways with them a long long time ago.

Furthermore, in the US, the Democrats have drifted so far to the right in that same time, that Ronald Reagan would consider them to now be too far right to apply as a candidate. Or at least the Dems would be a good fit for his Reaganesque principles.
Then again, maybe the Dems are not quite that far gone yet.

 

[epronovost]

Even US conservatives can't seem to agree though. They throw each other under the bus all the time and there appear many brands of conservatism in the US alone.

That is correct, I have attempted to address this in my second paragraph which you could't read since it was an edit, but to make a long story short. There is a large enough unity within the US conservatives to rally most of them under a single banner even though minority elements might not agree with the "utopian" descriptor or even have to be "purged" for the utopia to exist. It's highly speculative of course.

 

[mikkel_the_dane]

Part of the beauty of this type of thread is that it should, with even semi-intelligent readers, make the conservative reader introspect, and consider how exactly the GOP in the United States has been representing their wishes over the last 40 to 50 years.
If they did that, then I think many or even most of them would realize that their representatives (the GOP) parted ways with them a long long time ago.

Furthermore, in the US, the Democrats have drifted so far to the right in that same time, that Ronald Reagan would consider them to now be too far right to apply as a candidate. Or at least the Dems would be a good fit for his Reaganesque principles.
Then again, maybe the Dems are not quite that far gone yet.

Like. Your Overton window is in some sense so far right, that I as a somewhat moderate is a Stalinistic Communist.