Chaos Magic

[blackout]

Oh yes,
my "pendant" embodies
my own personal brand of "chaos majik".
I'll link the picture later when I'm on my home puter.

I'll try to express what I have not found the words for to date.
I think I'm capable of this kind of art-iculation now.
I think the paradigm shift in me has finally come together
to the point where I can speak clearly and coherently about it.

But we shall see.

I'll start with the pendant.

 

[Fishage]

Hello, I am sorry to interrupt. Could any of you tell me what this symbol may mean, represent or if it is similar to any other symbols you may know about? It would be very helpful to me. thank you.

 

[Azakel]

Hello, I am sorry to interrupt. Could any of you tell me what this symbol may mean, represent or if it is similar to any other symbols you may know about? It would be very helpful to me. thank you.

Never seen it before, where did you see it. That might help me figure it out.

 

[Mike182]

Hello, I am sorry to interrupt. Could any of you tell me what this symbol may mean, represent or if it is similar to any other symbols you may know about? It would be very helpful to me. thank you.

perhaps create a new thread to ask this question?

 

[Fishage]

Fair enough, What experiences do you guys have with sigils? like how well they work for you etc...

 

[Mike182]

Fair enough, What experiences do you guys have with sigils? like how well they work for you etc...

i've never tried using sigils i'm afraid. have you?

 

[Azakel]

Fair enough, What experiences do you guys have with sigils? like how well they work for you etc...

I find that working with Sigils to work great, or just working with symbols in the first place(since that what sigils are). It all depend on how and what you want to do woth them. I will usually make my sigil, but my intent, my energy into it for what I want it to do, then I burn it to release it magick in the worlds.

 

[Troublemane]

Is anyone here a practitioner of Chaos Magic? What do you consider the source of its power? What relationship, if any, do you think Chaos Magic has to other forms of magic, such as Necromancy?

Just stumbled on this thread, but thought I'd add something:--to me chaos magick is just a new spin on an old idea, that of the magician as the antinomian, the one who does things differently from everyone else. It could be the post-modernist attempt to combine hippie-alternaturalism with lovecraftian/cyberpunk-dystopianism, or something more bizzare even....thats the ideal thats espoused, yes, but the proponents of "Chaos Magick" (like Peter Carroll, and the I.O.T. lot) have develloped such a complex, organized meta-system of "primal chaos" and how it manifests in the world that theres almost no difference between what they call "Chaos" and what christians call "God". Its amazing.

Now that they've systematized the method of summoning chaos, they've expelled all the chaos they had to start off with!---heheh, maybe if they hadnt gotten so organized they wouldnt need to be summoning chaos! it would still be there! ----IMHO of course...
:angel2:

 

[Troublemane]

...But seriously though, its kind'a redundant to say "Chaos Magick" in a way. I mean, you're either in the dream or you are driving it, right? If the Magus is one who has become freed from the illusion of reality and can now play with it, then terms like order and chaos are completely relative, IMO

 

[doppelganger]

to me chaos magick is just a new spin on an old idea, that of the magician as the antinomian, the one who does things differently from everyone else.

Literally, "without law." I think a wise and gifted chaos magician understands that law and lawlessness are complementary. What makes a Chaos magician powerful is not that they contravene all order. It's that they embrace and acknowledge chaos in equal measure with order.

It could be the post-modernist attempt to combine hippie-alternaturalism with lovecraftian/cyberpunk-dystopianism, or something more bizzare even....

In some modes, sure. Put "post-modernism" has its roots deep in human consciousness and symbolic language from before the dawn of history - and can be found, for example, in the "Mysteries" of the ancient West and among its philosophers, as well as the ancient mystic writings of the East. It may seem like something "new" as one is breaking away from a habitualized symbolic system or in the process of contrasting magical practice against such a system. But each symbolic system - as a creative mythology at its inception (whether a reinterpretion or new recombination of various systems) - was itself a product of chaos magic . . . going back to the dawn of every major religion's foundational mythology.

 

[doppelganger]

...But seriously though, its kind'a redundant to say "Chaos Magick" in a way.

Maybe. Magic can be ritualized and its power "externalized" and then a schism occurs. As the chaotic aspect is reasserted, the symbols are redirected to point from ontological reality to psychological reality. As they are redirected, the symbols are reborn as something "new" - which can also be regarded as the rediscovery of something "old" or the finding of something "lost".

I mean, you're either in the dream or you are driving it, right?

Why can't it be both? Reality is a transaction.

 

[Troublemane]

Maybe. Magic can be ritualized and its power "externalized" and then a schism occurs. As the chaotic aspect is reasserted, the symbols are redirected to point from ontological reality to psychological reality. As they are redirected, the symbols are reborn as something "new" - which can also be regarded as the rediscovery of something "old" or the finding of something "lost".

Why can't it be both? Reality is a transaction.

Yeah, I can see how you could say that, being that all development follows the general model of differentiation+synergistic re-combination (or as the alchemists said "Solve et Coagula") So there can be a flux between awakenment and asleepenment, LoL

Its the absurdity of ritualized Chaos I object to----but really whatever you call it its still Magick, because you are exerting your will to name it.

 

[Guitar's Cry]

Its the absurdity of ritualized Chaos I object to----but really whatever you call it its still Magick, because you are exerting your will to name it.

Chaos Magicians often embrace the absurd. But why not? Much enjoyment is drawn from it, and the observation of paraboxe...er, paradoxes often makes life an absurd critter.

Often, the Chaos Magician pays homage to "chaos" for the simple understanding that without her or his existence as the observer, that's all that there is.

 

[Azakel]

Chaos Magicians often embrace the absurd. But why not? Much enjoyment is drawn from it, and the observation of paraboxe...er, paradoxes often makes life an absurd critter.

Often, the Chaos Magician pays homage to "chaos" for the simple understanding that without her or his existence as the observation, that's all that there is.

:clap:bow::clap......:drool:.....I mean :yes:

 

[Guitar's Cry]

:clap:bow::clap......:drool:.....I mean :yes:

I sometimes think of Chaos Magick as the "mystical" side of magic, as its usage depends a lot on an understanding of "mystical" concepts from both the West (reality models) and the East (form from the Void). In a way, it illuminates the commonalities between them, such as the influence of dualities on our experience of reality (the Biblical Fall of Man and the Tao) and the role of the individual in reality conception.

 

[Troublemane]

Well I agree there is benefit to the view of ritual as absurd in itself, but ritualized chaos is what I was saying is itself absurd, LoL!---the IOT has published rituals on the web that describe a practice called "banishment by laughter", so that you are supposed to end a ritual by laughter. This is just an example of what I am talking about.
Chaos is a necessary part of life, its the compliment of order and we need to have both. Tao is not order or chaos, but the synthesis of both. If you try and view the entier world through the lens of just one aspect of existence you are going to create an imbalanced view, and there is also the danger of creating a new dogma---"There is no chaos but Chaos! YOU shall NOT worship any other chaos before me!" This is essentially what is happening, and its why I advise against limiting ones definition of magick as being exclusive to any such relative terms as "order" or "chaos".

 

[Surya Deva]

I do dabble a bit in Chaos magick, I think. (Though I really just practice a personal form of folk magick, I've decided.)

How does one go chaos magik? I am sorry, I just know nothing about it other than what you just said in your post.

[QUOT]I like the idea of paradigm shifting. To me, it is a powerful way of experiencing the Spirit behind another's point of view. I also prefer practicing spells and rituals designed from symbols that are meaningful to me.[/QUOTE]

I am struggling in life to understand the spirit behind anothers point of view. What does Chaos Magik(CM) say about understanding another point of view?

The source of power from any magick, I believe, is the use of symbols. These symbols must be meaningful to the user. So the root of the power comes from the mind. These symbols influence the mind, causing psychological reactions on both a conscious and--probably--subconscious level. Psychological reactions necessitate change in the individual and--probably--the outside world.

I am familiar with the idea that meanings are imposed by us on the symbol, but I wonder what you think of the symbol itself having a meaning even before we impose on it? If so, what does CM say about how this comes about?

I remain openminded that there may be an external force--some kind of energy like the Eastern concept of Chi--that is also at work. But the power of symbols is enough, for their manipulation is the manipulation of universal energie--or so it appears.

The manipulation of energy using symbols is central to Reiki. Does CM have a similar idea of healing using symbols?

What I find interesting is the use of the word "chaos." Chaos does not necessarily mean disorder. It originally meant empiness, or a void. To me this represents the absence of power in something until it is a symbol. Before there is order--observation--there is nothing, as contradictory as that seems. There does seem to be a connection between the Discordian philosophy you've posted about, Dopp, and Chaos magick, which is not surprising.

Is that power invested in the symbol the observation of yourself as the observer, or the invested by another observer?

I do believe that there isn't something called chaos. As even in chaos there seems to be an order.

 

[Azakel]

I know you quoted GC post but I would like to answer.

How does one go chaos magik? I am sorry, I just know nothing about it other than what you just said in your post.

One can look into any kind of magic(k) really to get into CM. It takes and uses all kinds of thing from every where. Here is a good site to help: Techniques Of Chaos Magic

I am struggling in life to understand the spirit behind anothers point of view. What does Chaos Magik(CM) say about understanding another point of view?

That really all depends on the Chaos Magician to understand another point of view. You could all was read up on another point of view, follow it, practice it and in the end use part of it.

I am familiar with the idea that meanings are imposed by us on the symbol, but I wonder what you think of the symbol itself having a meaning even before we impose on it? If so, what does CM say about how this comes about?

I don't think it does really. Once again it is left up to the person themself(most thing within CM is like this)

The manipulation of energy using symbols is central to Reiki. Does CM have a similar idea of healing using symbols?

Anything thing you want, even Reiki. ^_^

Is that power invested in the symbol the observation of yourself as the observer, or the invested by another observer?

Ether or, it depends on what you're using the symbol for. When I use the Cross, if I'm the one investing the energy into it used to represent say the sun. But if I'm taking it off other people(mostly Christians) then it represent what Jesus did for the world(them).

I do believe that there isn't something called chaos. As even in chaos there seems to be an order.

Chaos within CM is used to mean the creative nature of all. The Void in the being where every comes from and all is possible.

 

[Yes Man]

Ehrm. I think that you were thinking of this.

This diagram references some of Austin Spare's musings on consciousness.

From Wikipedia...

Regarding Spare's magical system, Kiaism, his terminology is unique and could not be traced back in other traditions. The introduction of original concepts like "Kia", "Ikkah", "Sikah" appear for the first time in Spare's first book Earth Inferno and remain conceptually consistent until The Focus of Life.

Beside the important influence of Kiaism on occultism in general, it represents no specific way for personal development and/or any sets of instructions but requires the person to devise his personal system of philosophy or magic.

The supreme state in Kiaism, Kia, is sketched: "The absolute freedom which being free is mighty enough to be "reality" and free at any time: therefore is not potential or manifest (except as it's instant possibility) by ideas of freedom or "means," but by the Ego being free to receive it, by being free of ideas about it and by not believing."

However, Spare continually insists in various places that Kia is undefinable and any definition makes it more obscure.

Kiaism regards Belief and Desire as the great duality. In this system, Ego is a part of Self belonging to one Being while Self encircles the whole Being. Each "human" Being wills the desire. This desire imagines a new belief and belief by means of conceptualizing new concepts forms the Ego. Spare names these conceptions, "the ramifications of belief" which form different personalities for corresponding Ego. But the mentioned will is a partial one. The Will (emphasized by capitalizing) lies in the realm of Self - pertaining to Kia.

For more on Spare's views on magical consciousness, you might check out this text. The Book of Pleasure Certainly one of the most influential texts in Chaos Magik.

 

[Frater Sisyphus]

I'm not a Chaos Magickian myself but I think it provides a good pragmatic foundation for people to explore magick/hermeticism/the occult, through a less dogmatic lens.

Liber Null (Carroll) is a good encyclopedic type of book that provides a good look at many magickal concepts (many taken from Austin Spare).


What I find (as prompted by the mention of it in another thread), is that Chaos Magick prompts the subjective - [somewhat like Discordianism does] as a tool.

This contrasts with Thelema (which I "follow"), which is more the individual's path within a large tradition than subjectivity of itself (Chaos Magick) as a defining whole.


Reading both Liber Null and Psychonaut, will definitely give a non-adept a lot of areas to explore. But as someone who is not a Chaos Magickian, that's really all I can say.



Are there any current Chaos Magickians here?