Chaos Magic

[doppelganger]

Is anyone here a practitioner of Chaos Magic? What do you consider the source of its power? What relationship, if any, do you think Chaos Magic has to other forms of magic, such as Necromancy?

 

[Guitar's Cry]

I do dabble a bit in Chaos magick, I think. (Though I really just practice a personal form of folk magick, I've decided.)

I like the idea of paradigm shifting. To me, it is a powerful way of experiencing the Spirit behind another's point of view. I also prefer practicing spells and rituals designed from symbols that are meaningful to me.

The source of power from any magick, I believe, is the use of symbols. These symbols must be meaningful to the user. So the root of the power comes from the mind. These symbols influence the mind, causing psychological reactions on both a conscious and--probably--subconscious level. Psychological reactions necessitate change in the individual and--probably--the outside world.

I remain openminded that there may be an external force--some kind of energy like the Eastern concept of Chi--that is also at work. But the power of symbols is enough, for their manipulation is the manipulation of universal energie--or so it appears.

Chaos magick seems to have influenced other forms of magick, in the way that it is more accepted to mix symbols from different religious and spiritual groups.

What I find interesting is the use of the word "chaos." Chaos does not necessarily mean disorder. It originally meant empiness, or a void. To me this represents the absence of power in something until it is a symbol. Before there is order--observation--there is nothing, as contradictory as that seems. There does seem to be a connection between the Discordian philosophy you've posted about, Dopp, and Chaos magick, which is not surprising.

 

[Azakel]

I am, I even started a thread by the same name. But any way, to me Chaos in magic(k) still as Order, it's just that one doesn't stick to one type of Magic(k) and can use it any way you want to. Or, if you see a Invocation you like but want to change one or two things go ahead. You give it power, so do what you want with it. Also, I know a good number of Chaos Magician that will use and work with thing that are considered Fake, with Gods and Magic(k) from fantasy books and Games. Once again you give it power so if you want for it to work it will.

 

[shadow_fire]

Just a question. But in its new meaning since many misunderstood the christian use of the word. Couldn't Chaos magick in theory do any spell if used in this context?

Say I want to help someone, but I'm not sure how, could someone possibly harness chaos magick to help the person in a way even unknown to the caster but still goes for the goal of helping them?

Or if you weren't sure which spell to use, or maybe even something else could you align a Chaos symbol in the middle of a bunch of symbols and call upon Chaos magic to select and perform one of the spells?

These questions may seem sort of stupid, but I'm new to magick, I did a spell with my wiccan friend once though

 

[Azakel]

Just a question. But in its new meaning since many misunderstood the christian use of the word. Couldn't Chaos magick in theory do any spell if used in this context?

Say I want to help someone, but I'm not sure how, could someone possibly harness chaos magick to help the person in a way even unknown to the caster but still goes for the goal of helping them?

Or if you weren't sure which spell to use, or maybe even something else could you align a Chaos symbol in the middle of a bunch of symbols and call upon Chaos magic to select and perform one of the spells?

These questions may seem sort of stupid, but I'm new to magick, I did a spell with my wiccan friend once though

Yes you could, Chaos Magick can be a weird thing. Most of the time it has no base ritual, you can take one spell, and turn it on it's head and make it your own. I'm reminded if the Turkey Curse from Discordia. But there is also a type if Chaos Magick from the East and not really base on the Western thought, here a thread I did to explain more of the way I practice Chaos Magick: http://www.religiousforums.com/forum/showthread.php?t=53639 (note: I only spell it Khaos Majick to get peoples interest)
Also here is a Wiki link about Chaos Magic to help: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Chaos_magic

Think about it:

"Chaos is not in itself, a system or philosophy. It is rather an attitude that one applies to one's magic and philosophy. It is the basis for all magic, as it is the primal creative force. A Chaos Magician learns a variety of magical techniques, usually as many as s/he can gain access to, but sees beyond the systems and dogmas to the physics behind the magical force and uses whatever methods are appealing to him/herself."

- Mark Chao, "Defining Chaos"​

 

[doppelganger]

Think about it:

"Chaos is not in itself, a system or philosophy. It is rather an attitude that one applies to one's magic and philosophy. It is the basis for all magic, as it is the primal creative force. A Chaos Magician learns a variety of magical techniques, usually as many as s/he can gain access to, but sees beyond the systems and dogmas to the physics behind the magical force and uses whatever methods are appealing to him/herself."

- Mark Chao, "Defining Chaos"​

Great quote, Grimm, and an excellent description of Chaos. Is Mark the Original Sacred Chao?

Mu.

 

[Guitar's Cry]

Just a question. But in its new meaning since many misunderstood the christian use of the word. Couldn't Chaos magick in theory do any spell if used in this context?

Say I want to help someone, but I'm not sure how, could someone possibly harness chaos magick to help the person in a way even unknown to the caster but still goes for the goal of helping them?

Or if you weren't sure which spell to use, or maybe even something else could you align a Chaos symbol in the middle of a bunch of symbols and call upon Chaos magic to select and perform one of the spells?

These questions may seem sort of stupid, but I'm new to magick, I did a spell with my wiccan friend once though

With other magical traditions, including Wicca, this sort of thing is usually avoided as it is often believed that symbols contain inherent power. And if you still wanted to perform the spell, you'd be expected to ask permission of the person you want to help.

Chaos magick is a little different, though. It views symbols as empty vessels for power, rather than containing the power themselves. The danger in mixing powerful symbols then comes from the caster, not the symbols. (I think it's probable that symbols have powerful psychological effects that may not be readily apparent to a caster, so some caution should be taken there!)

Performing a spell to help someone would certainly help you, so I figure as long as it's done with love, any harm would only be self-inflicted from things like guilt or regret. But consult with your Wiccan friend; comparing perspectives is always safest!

 

[doppelganger]

The idea behind chaos magic is that the power in the words and symbols ultimately comes from the user or spellcaster rather than the spells (words) or symbols themselves. Other magicians (Christians, Wiccans, Materialists, etc.) by locking themselves into one set of inherited symbols tend to obscure from themselves that the spells they use are imbued with no power other than their own perception and perspective - but it is still ultimately the spellcaster's power. And to fully release that power the first step is to acknowledge it and claim it. Once you've done that, any "system" of magic becomes a shadow of the spellcaster's ability to draw power from his or her self, and thus any "system" of symbols and words is usable by the Chaos magician, including otherwise seemingly bizarre combinations of different systems - and, crucially - entirely new "systems" fabricated by the magician. The great artists are chaos magicians - innovators of creative mythology. The great novelists, painters, sculptors, and scientists are creating their own, "new", spellcasting/symbolic systems to unlock their power over the perception of "reality."

 

[doppelganger]

I don't like magic personally, I think it is wrong-headed to arrive @ a belief in affecting and effecting reality through "spells" (which are really acts of self-hypnosis when "white", and Other-hypnosis when "black") when there is no reality to change because once one accepts magic one by default accepts to live and play in illusion: and that is a one way ticket to an eternity on the merry-go-round of Earthbound reincarnation. Don't be tricked.

That's pretty much the message of chaos magic though, Conor. Reality is all illusion, and it's all under as much control as you want to exercise over it.

 

[Random]

That's pretty much the message of chaos magic though, Conor. Reality is all illusion, and it's all under as much control as you want to exercise over it.

Yes, but with respect Dopp, that is a power-fantasy: one which is based on the quintessential illusion which is that of control. The illusion of control, from a spiritual perspective, perpetuates the false belief in oneself as a seperate do-er of deeds, an ego-entity or agent. Surely you realize the futility of enduring repeated lives under this delusion, this pretence?

When I was a Catholic, I was repeatedly exposed to the teaching that Magic is dangerous because it it all too real to the magician and imperils his soul: this I still believe now, though Emancipated.

Peace and blessings,

Random/Conor

 

[doppelganger]

I hope you are not so foolish as to dabble in magic, Brendan: it is folly and tears up the mind. You cannot affect anything really by it: the spells always rebound karmically upon the caster.

Which is, of course, a spell you just cast. :yes:

Peace and blessings,

And so is that.

In any case, this is a DIR, so if you want to debate the merits and meaning of magic, you should probably start a topic elsewhere, Conor.

 

[Random]

Which is, of course, a spell you just cast. :yes: And so is that.

I guess I must've missed an irony there...

In any case, this is a DIR, so if you want to debate the merits and meaning of magic, you should probably start a topic elsewhere, Conor

Thanks, I'll think about that.

 

[shadow_fire]

Would you be able to take a Satanic outlook on Chaos Magick?

Because I do not believe in gods, or magick, or mythologies etc. I'm basically atheist supreme..mwahahah.

But on the other hand, I think dogma and spirituality can be good for you, even if I don't believe the magick has any real effects besides possibly to increase confidence, esteem, creativity, basically anything that can be increased with a placebo sort of effect, I still wouldn't mind dabbling in Magick for a (probably much needed) Dogma.

 

[MaddLlama]

Would you be able to take a Satanic outlook on Chaos Magick?

Because I do not believe in gods, or magick, or mythologies etc. I'm basically atheist supreme..mwahahah.

But on the other hand, I think dogma and spirituality can be good for you, even if I don't believe the magick has any real effects besides possibly to increase confidence, esteem, creativity, basically anything that can be increased with a placebo sort of effect, I still wouldn't mind dabbling in Magick for a (probably much needed) Dogma.

From what I understand, Chaos magic is very much a "make it up as you go along, and throw whatever you feel like into the mix" type of system, so it would likely lend itself well to atheists who want to dabble in magic. I've seen books about pop-culture magic that are based on a Chaos-magic type system.

 

[Guitar's Cry]

Yes, but with respect Dopp, that is a power-fantasy: one which is based on the quintessential illusion which is that of control. The illusion of control, from a spiritual perspective, perpetuates the false belief in oneself as a seperate do-er of deeds, an ego-entity or agent.

Which is, of course, the Riddle of Steel.

 

[Guitar's Cry]

From what I understand, Chaos magic is very much a "make it up as you go along, and throw whatever you feel like into the mix" type of system,

Sort of, though it's not that easy.

A Chaos Magician has to learn to believe in what they make up. The things they throw into the mix are symbols that are important to them, or they believe are important to them. As I mentioned in a previous post, paradigm shifting is an important tool for a Chaos Magician, as it allows the practitioner to understand different points of view and work within them.

As Dopp has pointed out, artists are Chaos Magicians. They allow us glimpses into their inner worlds (and others) through the manipulation of symbols.

 

[shadow_fire]

Interesting....so would I be able to partake in it if I don't believe in magick/god or anything since I'm basically 100% atheist in all ways?

 

[Guitar's Cry]

Interesting....so would I be able to partake in it if I don't believe in magick/god or anything since I'm basically 100% atheist in all ways?

I see no reason why you couldn't. Have fun with it! Spells and rituals are at their best when they are enjoyable and not taken too seriously.

 

[shadow_fire]

I see no reason why you couldn't. Have fun with it! Spells and rituals are at their best when they are enjoyable and not taken too seriously.

Ok, awesome!

Heres the chaos pendant I want to buy. O and sorry for the late reply, I've been super busy lately.

 

[blackout]

I can't believe I never saw this here before.

Both Guitar's Cry and Azakel have peaked my interest
in understanding what Chaos Magik is all about.
I do believe this defines my Majik quite well actually.
I had a funny feeling it might actually.

I'm not feeling well enough to post anything of interest right now
but I'll most definately be coming back to this,
and I thank you all for your clear presentations
of what chaos majik IS.
or what it describes.

GC, it just blows me away how totally similar
our view of life is... and our approach to majik.
I already know it,
but then I read your post here and I go... wow.
While my Majik is...
and has always been MY OWN...
You constantly help me to "define"
or put some kind of graspable name
on what I've already been doing by instinct.

Anyway, these conversations here are a real treasure.
I'm glad I finally opened them up.

~UltraV~