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Featured Challenging one's religion

Discussion in 'Religious Debates' started by Unveiled Artist, Mar 4, 2021.

  1. Unveiled Artist

    Unveiled Artist My baby niece

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    If someone stood over a dead person and that person had blood on this chest and the other on his knife, but you did not see the action, would your intelligent assumption be taken as fact or belief?

    If someone is indoctrinated in their religion (doesn't matter which in any case), since their experiences support their belief are so strong, like the dead guy and knife, should they consider belief a fact or a belief?

    While in both cases to fall into the belief the guy with the knife killed or the other our repeated synchronicities or even feeling god on the wind (heard a non Christian say on RF) are proof of our religious practice or cause and result of practice, they still have a small chance they could be wrong.

    Do we consider we could be wrong in both cases?

    Would you be open to be challenged the validity of your experiences?

    Assumptions and drawing conclusions are helpful in some things, but when your assumptions are challenged it's hard to deal with the cognitive dissonance if we are wrong.
     
  2. Aupmanyav

    Aupmanyav Be your own guru

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    I always welcome that. I delight in challenge.
     
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  3. SalixIncendium

    SalixIncendium Advaita Vedantin
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    On two conditions:
    1. If there was a valid reason for the challenge my experiences other than one just proving oneself to be “right” or proving me to be “wrong.”
    2. If there was a means to experiment, test, measure, and falsify said experiences.
     
  4. Unveiled Artist

    Unveiled Artist My baby niece

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    Can you be proven wrong about your religion (culture and practice)?
     
  5. Unveiled Artist

    Unveiled Artist My baby niece

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    True. The second one is bypassing by setting up criteria for the other. It means that if one throws you curve ball outside your second criteria, you wouldn't budge?

    That and/or your religion is based on experiences that can be measured and tested?
     
  6. Aupmanyav

    Aupmanyav Be your own guru

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    I do not think so - for two reasons:
    1. I have already done a whole lot of pruning from my religion. That is why I am a Hindu atheist.
    2. I am open to advances in science. My belief has a good possibility, say around 5 sigma, but it is not a closed book.
    Throw any ball at me. (wrt your observation in the post above).
     
    #6 Aupmanyav, Mar 4, 2021
    Last edited: Mar 4, 2021
  7. sayak83

    sayak83 Well-Known Member
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    Of course I can be wrong.
     
  8. Vinayaka

    Vinayaka devotee
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    I don't see how you can challenge another's experience. Are you saying you can say to them that they didn't have that experience? I do think you can challenge the conclusions someone may have drawn from their experiences.
     
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  9. Unveiled Artist

    Unveiled Artist My baby niece

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    Is there a deal breaker in that statement?
     
  10. SigurdReginson

    SigurdReginson Well-Known Member
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    But was it suicide? Was it murder? Was it murder to make it seem as though it were suicide?

    If I stumbled upon that scene, I would call the police and let the forensic scientists work on the problem. I'm no expert by any means, though I could make guesses I suppose.

    If other people want to guess as to what happened, they can. If they want to start saying that they "know" what happened... Eeehhh.... Let's wait to see what the scientists say on the topic, first. Otherwise, I may question just how you "know."
     
  11. Unveiled Artist

    Unveiled Artist My baby niece

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    What if that curve ball hits home?
     
  12. Unveiled Artist

    Unveiled Artist My baby niece

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    Hm. You're making it too complicated. The focus is on challenging your deeply held experiences insofar that they are so strongly held, one may find it hard to accept a challenge.

    There aresny what ifs and extra things they can be add to scenarios but it sidetracks the point with to many "others" answers
     
  13. Unveiled Artist

    Unveiled Artist My baby niece

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    To add, I think you can challenge another's experiences. We all have biases. Now, do we Want our experiences challenge could fall on a couple of things...not wanting to be wrong or maybe cognitive dissonance. People withdrawal, run away, or get defensive when they feel they are challenged because our religious beliefs and practice hinges on our experiences (well, some the other way around but same difference)

    I'm not sure of any other reasons people don't like their religion (experiences) challenge outside of things like disinterest.
     
  14. Orbit

    Orbit I'm a planet

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    There are quite a few people here that were raised in Christianity who are no longer Christian, so people do question their beliefs. I am one of them.
     
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  15. Unveiled Artist

    Unveiled Artist My baby niece

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    But what about their experiences?

    Beliefs come a dime or dosen. Anyone can be skeptical of their beliefs but if they have profound experiences, by what reason do they have the means to challenge them?
     
  16. Orbit

    Orbit I'm a planet

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    Do you mean religious experiences?
     
  17. Aupmanyav

    Aupmanyav Be your own guru

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    Indians are good at spin (if you know about Cricket). We skittled the English team for 81 runs and won by 10 wickets. Throw us the curved ball.
    Individual experience does not amount to anything.
     
    #17 Aupmanyav, Mar 4, 2021
    Last edited: Mar 4, 2021
  18. Secret Chief

    Secret Chief Meghalayan Ape

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    I don't see how this changes @Vinayaka 's post. An experience is an experience, it can't be challenged unless one believes the person is dissembling. I've had an experience of going to York on a train. On what grounds can this experience be "challenged" ?

    And, as @Vinayaka also says, any conclusions may of course be open to being challenged, but that is a separate issue.
     
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  19. Unveiled Artist

    Unveiled Artist My baby niece

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    Your interpretation on what that experience means (say saw or felt a spirit) can be challenged. Someone who hears voices is actually hearing voices but when their experiences are challenged, they find their voices aren't outside themselves but actually have a psychological and medical cause. We can be attached to our experiences but our bias may distort what we believed we experienced but did not.

    Psychiatrist challenge their clients experiences, so why is it limited to psychology?
     
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  20. Secret Chief

    Secret Chief Meghalayan Ape

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    OK, I think we're in agreement. I was addressing the word I have bolded.
     
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