Caution: Homosexuality Dangerous to Health

[Pah]

... As a Christian, I try to be understanding of PEOPLE. I am not suppose to be tolerant of the SIN. This is the point. Those who try and fail to do what is right I can offer comfort to. Those that want to believe that they are entitled to do WHATEVER they please WHENEVER they want and don't care who is hurt or offended---I leave up to GOD. But the message is the same repent and place your trust in the LORD Jesus and don't rest in your own power. Rest in GOD's.

For HelpMe, as well -

Please tell me why, if it is up to God, there is so much political effort to force that message into the secular laws of the US? If you trusted God, why do you continue to try and influence society as a whole, a society comprised of many who differ from your faith? Why do the details of the "message" differ from others of the same faith? Christianity does NOT have a universal view of homosexuality within itself let alone amongs those of differant faiths?

You've delivered your "message" and it has been considered and rejected by many. Why do you persist in trying to change other peoples minds? Is it perhaps from an arrogance in beleiving that only you are correct? Or perhaps, you need the strength of a homogenized majority to practise your faith?

If homosexuality and homosexual marriage offends you or your God as sin, don't practice homosexual acts - don't have a same-sex marriage. Look to your own sins before you throw the stone at the adulterer or try to pick the mote in the eyes of others. I believe those are injunctions from Jesus. Don't infuse what is Caesar's with what is God's - another command from Jesus.

-pah-

 

[Green Gaia]

If there is any sin it is intolerance and preaching on a subject you know nothing about.

Exactly, Lightkeeper. It amazes me the people who throw around generalizations and stereotypes about the BGLT community when they know nothing about what we've been through and continue to go through because of prejudice and intolerance. I can respect someone who says, "I do not understand same sex attraction, but it is not for me to judge what others do." But those who condemn what they do not understand and do not wish to even try to understand is very frustrating.

 

[dolly]

There are some people who do plenty of ugly things to themselves and other people and animals. This is a truth and I know that if I'm aware of this others must be also.

That is a truth, but they are not necessarly bisexuals. Bisexuals do not have sex with everyone. Do het males have sex with every single female the see? No. This is the problem. You took a sexuality - something which there are people on this forum who happen to be - and make an ignorant, cruel comment about them being whorish, having no self control, and implying that we rape animals. That is offensive - it isn't hard to figure that out. You are not a tolerant person.

As a Christian, I try to be understanding of PEOPLE.

No, you do not. As a Christian, you should, but based on your posts, you obviously have judged us based on a misunderstanding of our emotions - and then you don't even care to remedy those misunderstandings.

Those that want to believe that they are entitled to do WHATEVER they please WHENEVER they want and don't care who is hurt or offended

We do have the right to do what we want whenever we want as long as it hurts no one - has a homosexual consenting couple hurt anyone yet? No. As for offending people, I really don't think that matters if the people offended are the ones who discriminate against others. Should we not allow African Americans the right to vote because it might offend the KKK? Obviously not. To not allow homosexual marriages because it might offend some religious fundies who do not realize that because the country is secular, their views have no impact whatsoever on the validity of the union - well, that's equal to not allowing the African Americans to vote.

 

[LittleNipper]

I believe GOD has a PERFECT way to use those feelings; however, homosexual sex acts are not it. Some people I firmly believe were never intended to get married. Society puts pressure on individuals to find that special someone and have a family. Everyone is free to LOVE whomever they wish. To LOVE and to have sex with a person are not the same thing. We are ALL individuals. GOD made us all very different. WE PRESENTLY EXIST IS AN IMPERFECT WORLD! Sometimes that means that we will be faced with the decision of doing what I want or what GOD wants. When I was in school there were other guys I wished I looked like or thought were cool. I wanted the attention. Satan is going to work on our feels and try to distort and use them to turn individuals away from GOD... I believe that there is a person of the opposite sex that fits the needs of anyone willing to trust GOD in that search. Don't sell yourself short. It is worth the wait.

 

[Green Gaia]

Don't sell yourself short. It is worth the wait.

I would hardly call the relationship I have with the love of my life, selling myself short. What would be selling myself short is staying in an unhappy relationship with a man simply because that's what we're taught to do. You are making assumptions about something you know nothing about. But you're right about one thing, she is worth the wait.

 

[dolly]

Everyone is free to LOVE whomever they wish. To LOVE and to have sex with a person are not the same thing.

Of course they aren't the same thing. Homosexuality isn't a term for people who have sex with the same gender, but for people who love the same gender in a romantic manner.

Don't sell yourself short. It is worth the wait.

I won't sell myself short. I'll quote Maize in this :

I would hardly call [a] relationship... with the love of my life, selling myself short.

I don't care what gender the person would be when I fall in love with them. As long as I am in a relationship with the love of my life, with someone who cares for me, etc, then I'll never be selling myself short.

 

[LittleNipper]

I would hardly call the relationship I have with the love of my life, selling myself short. What would be selling myself short is staying in an unhappy relationship with a man simply because that's what we're taught to do. You are making assumptions about something you know nothing about. But you're right about one thing, she is worth the wait.

How do you think I found my wife. Some people meet in bars or some social event. I had been praying to GOD for a help-meet. I found in at a church. Actually, I believe she found me. I have tried to keep GOD at the center of OUR
lives. There was a time when it looked as if there was no one out there for me.
After I found my wife it looked as if we were not going to have children. My little boy is a miracle child. I know he was a gift from GOD. My wife went through an operation and the entire ordeal nearly ended in divorce; however, through it all GOD was working and we had a health baby. I really don't know how people without GOD cope in this day and age. I do pity them all...

 

[Ardhanariswar]

I believe GOD has a PERFECT way to use those feelings; however, homosexual sex acts are not it.

and you think that out dated scripture can replace God? your talking from the bible. The *god* in the bible changes. in the OT, he is strict, my way or no way, killing thousands of innocent firstborns. then in the NT, he becomes loving and forgiving.

God is not this way. God is unchanging. The bible should never be taken literally.

 

[Ardhanariswar]

"I don't care what gender the person would be when I fall in love with them. As long as I am in a relationship with the love of my life, with someone who cares for me, etc, then I'll never be selling myself short."

exactly! omg, i have those same beliefs too. my parents think im branding myself, but in truth im quite open for any feeling.

 

[sankazhria16]

lightkeeper - great post. I just don't understand how people who have been personally exposed to someone in your situation could think that homosexuality is a choice.

"Those that want to believe that they are entitled to do WHATEVER they please WHENEVER they want and don't care who is hurt or offended"-LiNi

Like dolly said, homesexuality hurts no one, and only offends those who think it is their business and who do not understand or tolerate those different from them.

"Everyone is free to LOVE whomever they wish. To LOVE and to have sex with a person are not the same thing." - LiNipper
"Of course they aren't the same thing. Homosexuality isn't a term for people who have sex with the same gender, but for people who love the same gender in a romantic manner."-dolly

LittleNipper, no one will argue with you that love and sex are not the same thing. Remember, there are different kinds of love. We english speakers only use one word for it. Like dolly said, once again, homosexuality involves romantic love, eros, not lust. Heterosexuality is not a desire to have sex with the opposite gender, it's biological wiring to romantically love those of the opposite gender.

BTW, littlenipper, congrats on your child. I agree with you that it must be difficult to cope with life without God. I don't know how you(not LN, but some of the others on this thread) atheists do it. I admire your conviction in believing something that is so shunned by society - that takes a lot of courage.

 

[Lightkeeper]

To further the discussion that homosexuality is not about sex, there are homosexual couples who do not have sex. Just as there are heterosexual couples who do not have sex.

 

[MarkT]

>"But like I said sex isn't love. It shouldn't be confused with love. Sex is the desire of the flesh. Some people call it lust.
You can love people and have no desire to sleep with them.
You seem to be intent on linking the two. That idea entered the culture in the sixties, through the music and the images on TV.
Basically we love our children when they listen to us so love isn't unconditional. Unconditional love is a poetic concept but I don't think it exists." - MarkT

>'ancient Greek has the words philia, eros, agape, and storge, meaning love between friends, romantic/sexual love, unconditional (possibly sacrificial, unreciprocated) love, and affection/familial love respectively.' (http://www.wordiq.com/definition/Love)

There are not four kinds of love. Love is love and sex is sex. "Erotic", for example, comes from the Greek word "eros". Erotic sex is sex. "Romantic love" is sex. "Romance" novels are sexual fantasies. It's not love.

Love is the response to being listened to. We love people when they listen to us. A mother hears her child and gives the child what it needs. The child responds with love. The mother responds to love with love.

Typically we love those who love us; those who listen to us, who give us good things. That would include love, kindness, friendship, companionship, loyalty, trust, honor, food, shelter, etc.

Even sex and pleasure but sex, like food and shelter, are desires of the flesh and some people become slaves to their sinful passions; greedy, adulterous, given to unnatural acts.

We leave it to God to provide us with the things we need but first we seek His kingdom.

Do your parents ignore you or do they listen to you? Do you hang up when they call or do you listen to them?

Parents love their children when they listen to them.

When we pray to God we ask him to listen. When we receive His Spirit, we respond with love.

>I love many people unconditionally, especially my family(storge). I dont understand how you could stop loving someone because they do not listen to you.

You love them because they're family. That's a condition. But I didn't say anything about a condition. Someone else did. I said love was the response to being listened to.

But let's say your children continually lied to you, stole from you. Let's say you're a drug addicted alcoholic prostitute. Your kids won't listen to you and you ignore them. I wouldn't expect to find much love.

Granted that's an extreme scenario.

>Unconditional love absolutely exists. Examples: my unconditional love (storge) for my family, unconditional love (philia) for several close friends,

You mean you'd do anything for them. Right? You love them because they're your friends and family. But friends have been known to fall away. You trust them. They're not going to betray you. But what if they did? How would you feel about that?

Anyways, I was talking about the response itself not the conditions that affect it.

>many people's unconditional eros for their spouse,

Like I said, gays may love one another but sex and love are two different things. And their love has to be based on something. ie. things in common, mutual respect, listening to each other, etc.

>my unconditional agape for mankind. Also, as a Christian, I believe in God's unconditional love for all humankind and for all of His creation.

And you got that from reading the Bible. Right? Even though what you're saying isn't exactly scriptural, it's called listening to God.

 

[Green Gaia]

How do you think I found my wife. Some people meet in bars or some social event. I had been praying to GOD for a help-meet. I found in at a church. Actually, I believe she found me. I have tried to keep GOD at the center of OUR
lives. There was a time when it looked as if there was no one out there for me.
After I found my wife it looked as if we were not going to have children. My little boy is a miracle child. I know he was a gift from GOD. My wife went through an operation and the entire ordeal nearly ended in divorce; however, through it all GOD was working and we had a health baby.

Wow, that's really great for you, but not everyone is just like you nor is everyone going to have the same experience you've had. I can tell you congratulations on your relationship and family, yet you condemn mine.

I really don't know how people without GOD cope in this day and age. I do pity them all...

Well, this is hardly the thread for a theist vs. atheist debate, but I could just as easily say that I pity those who cling to ancient ideas of venegful and jealous god whom they believe they are commanded to worship and threatened with pain and torture if they do not....

Also, I hope you were not implying that all BGLT people do not feel the need for a god in their life, because many do.

 

[MarkT]

>You choose to become an alcoholic or a drug addict by consciously using the drugs and abusing them. People don't sit down and go, "Hey! I feel like being persecuted, abandoned, abused, and generally treated like a second class citizen. I know! I'll be gay for the day! Now, let me force myself to fall in love with the next gal I see. Then afterwards, I'll go commit suicide!"

No they don't choose to become alcoholics or drug addicts. Alcohol and drugs sort of take over. Actually the flesh seems to have a will of it's own. You have to consciously overcome some addictions. It's possible. People can quit smoking, for example, but the stresses that led to their habit don't disappear.

I don't think anybody chooses to be gay either. I think it's stress. It's partly societal pressures and partly environmental/family stress. It could be they were ignored growing up. Maybe they didn't have a father or the father was absent even when he was home. I don't know.

Is homosexuality a self destructive tendancy? Are some people so filled with self loathing that they feel they deserve no better.

I hope you all don't feel that way. Normalizing it won't make any difference.

Anyways, according to the Bible, God gave up the wicked to immoral acts and to dishonourable passions. They not only do such things but they approve those who practice them. The wicked, by definition, don't know God or honor him or give thanks to him. They're not of God. Romans 1: 18-32

So Christians can not approve. The approval of such things doesn't come by the spirit of truth. But we can offer some hope. Read the Bible starting with Genesis. Don't think you can skip it and start at the New Testament. The Revised Standard Version of the Bible is the best in my opinion.

Sex is sex. It's a physical act. We all have the equipment. It makes no sense to say genes play a part. But maybe in a sense. God did create the vessel to contain the spirit. But Gods kindness is meant to lead you to repentance.

This is a spiritual battle we're in.

It doesn't matter to me whether gay marriage is approved. Satan is the ruler of this world. Why wouldn't it be.

I don't care about political rights except as an observer. I'm not interested in judging outsiders either but what's with the parades and the public displays of indecency?

>Christians love making the alcohol analogy - but it isn't a good one, because people consciously choose to abuse alcohol, but no one consciously chooses their sexuality.

Maybe it isn't a good analogy. People drink to forget their problems. Yeah it's a conscious act but they don't choose the side effects.

 

[dolly]

No they don't choose to become alcoholics or drug addicts. Alcohol and drugs sort of take over. Actually the flesh seems to have a will of it's own. You have to consciously overcome some addictions. It's possible. People can quit smoking, for example, but the stresses that led to their habit don't disappear.

Once they use it irresponsibly, they are choosing to become addicts. What else would they believe the consequences of their actions?

I don't think anybody chooses to be gay either. I think it's stress. It's partly societal pressures and partly environmental/family stress.

Do you have any proof of this? Seriously, many gay people grew up in ideal family situations with the same pressures and stress as a heterosexual. You can't make claims like this without at least some evidence proving this, and there is none. The evidence leans toward genetics or the environment in the womb.

It could be they were ignored growing up. Maybe they didn't have a father or the father was absent even when he was home. I don't know.

No, because there is no such link between a significant amount of homosexuals.

Is homosexuality a self destructive tendancy? Are some people so filled with self loathing that they feel they deserve no better.

There are people who are so filled with self loathing that they want to punish themselves, but they don't punish themselves with homosexuality. Many hate themselves because they are homosexual.

I hope you all don't feel that way.

I used to. I almost killed myself when I finally acknowledged that I was bisexual.

Normalizing it won't make any difference.

It would. It does. I didn't do it because I eventually grew to realize that I'm normal even though I'm bisexual, and that there isn't anything wrong with me. Even though now I'm still ashamed of it, the more I see that it's normal the less, suffering I go through because of this.

And before you blather on about Jesus and being saved - I was Catholic when I found out, and I tried to change. It didn't work. You can't change your sexuality. I'm not going to spend more time on this, as we already discussed whether they can change or not on a different thread which I gave a link to on the first page of this thread.

So Christians can not approve. The approval of such things doesn't come by the spirit of truth. But we can offer some hope. Read the Bible starting with Genesis. Don't think you can skip it and start at the New Testament. The Revised Standard Version of the Bible is the best in my opinion.

You don't have to approve, but the average Christian doesn't have to be a hypocritical *ss either. As I said in my first post in this thread, they are so many other sins that pose a greater danger to society than homosexuality. Why don't you all focus on them instead of promoting hatred and driving people to suicide? Instead of focusing on this hate like so many of you do, you could be making a difference helping the poor or trying to stop drunk driving.

I don't care about political rights except as an observer. I'm not interested in judging outsiders either but what's with the parades and the public displays of indecency?

The parades are to help people like me. So that we don't feel alone. So that we know that we aren't horrible freaks who deserve all the violence and hatred we get.

And please. Public displays on indecency? Don't just link that to hom, I've seen much worse het stuff all over the place. They are many more hets who do that than homs.

Maybe it isn't a good analogy. People drink to forget their problems. Yeah it's a conscious act but they don't choose the side effects.

They choose the side effects by doing the action. If they don't want to be addicts or alcoholics, they don't do it. It's that simple.

We don't have that option. Even if we are celebate, we can't just choose not to be attracted.

 

[MarkT]

>When you tell others they are "slaves to their sinful passions" you have made a judgement that their passion is a sin.

No. I'm stating a fact.

>And you get this from a label "homosexual"? - you know nothing (totally ignorant) of the self-professed homosexual - you have not witnessed, I'll bet, the acts that only God can judge. Yet, you are in the charge to deny secular rights to homosexuals. God has no authority in the Constitution but you would place his laws there. You would force, from your ignorance, a concept of your faith upon society and you are forbidden by scripture (...what is Ceasar's....)and the Constitution from doing so.

The Constitution doesn't allow any institutional church to be established. The key word is "institutional". It also can not prohibit the practice of religion. The practice of Christianity is to do good. Since it became the law that whatever offends a minority can be prohibited and various idealistic groups have attained minority status, we've seen everything that's meant to be good prohibited.

That's a ridiculous situation.

The "right" you refer to makes no sense. There's nothing to be gained by it.

>Homosexuality is a secular matter and not the business of imposed religion If you would like to agrue from a secular standpoint I would personally welcome it (hehehe and debunk all the arguements hehehe) but I can't abide the denial of judgement and the imposition of religious faith on society. I have served over twenty years in arms in the service of my country, protecting the enjoyment of rights for all, and would, should this battle reach the streets, do so again - I feel that strongly about this infringement by some Christians.

I'm sure you're over reacting to some imaginary evil. Nobody's imposing faith. Some people see these things as a sign of Gods' wrath. Others are just offended by indecency.

To judge is to pronounce a sentence. I'm not judging anyone according to the law. I wouldn't put anyone in jail. I wouldn't persecute anyone. I wouldn't punish anyone.

But if you want my approval you won't get it. And as long as we can still vote ... No we'll abstain. You go ahead and run the country. I guarantee a totalitarian regime. All idealists are totalitarian.

 

[Green Gaia]

I don't think anybody chooses to be gay either. I think it's stress. It's partly societal pressures and partly environmental/family stress. It could be they were ignored growing up. Maybe they didn't have a father or the father was absent even when he was home. I don't know.

Why do people always assume that a gay person has to come from a dysfunctional family or was abused and neglected? This really, really irritates me...

Is homosexuality a self destructive tendancy? Are some people so filled with self loathing that they feel they deserve no better.

I embrace my sexuality because I do feel I deserve better than a life of hiding and self denial.

I hope you all don't feel that way. Normalizing it won't make any difference.

Get off your moral high horse, sir. It is normal for me and millions of others. If that bothers you, then that's your problem, not mine.

Anyways, according to the Bible....

Not everyone is Christian and follows the Bible, so please stop blanketing everyone under the laws of your religion.

So Christians can not approve. The approval of such things doesn't come by the spirit of truth. But we can offer some hope.

???

Read the Bible starting with Genesis. Don't think you can skip it and start at the New Testament. The Revised Standard Version of the Bible is the best in my opinion.

I've read the Bible many times, but I don't read it literally. I doubt reading it again, would change my views.

Sex is sex. It's a physical act. We all have the equipment. It makes no sense to say genes play a part.

How do you explain different attraction in different people then?

This is a spiritual battle we're in.

Let me guess... in this battle BGLT people are the enemy and all the good Christians of the world are to destory us?

It doesn't matter to me whether gay marriage is approved. Satan is the ruler of this world. Why wouldn't it be.

Satan is a Christian concept and there is no ruler of this world besides mankind.

I don't care about political rights except as an observer. I'm not interested in judging outsiders either but what's with the parades and the public displays of indecency?

Right.. and heterosexual people NEVER do anything indecent. Please, give me a break. Do not condemn an entire group of people on the actions of an extreme few. By your logic, we should condemn the entire white race because of the actions of the KKK and other similar groups.

p.s. Please learn to use the quote button, it would make your posts much easier to read, thank you.

 

[LittleNipper]

I would hardly call the relationship I have with the love of my life, selling myself short. What would be selling myself short is staying in an unhappy relationship with a man simply because that's what we're taught to do. You are making assumptions about something you know nothing about. But you're right about one thing, she is worth the wait.

Selling youself short (as a Christian) is getting into ANY relationship without consulting GOD. Women and men who have "unhappy" relationships often start off in that relationship for all the wrong reasons and they found that partner the wrong way. We are often "taught" the wrong way and often we follow the poor examples of parents and friend who also made mistakes. I am not making assumptions about anything. I wasn't born yesterday and yes, if you are willing to read through the Bible you will find the mistakes others made concerning relationships and what were their errors. People who IGNORE history are bound to repeat it... This is the fact.

 

[Green Gaia]

Selling youself short (as a Christian)...

I am not Christian, so I am not bound by your religion's laws.

 

[LittleNipper]

I am not Christian, so I am not bound by your religion's laws.

The problem is that YOU WILL still suffer the consequences of your actions.
A small child might not know that fire burns but it does whether he accepts or understand the fact.

GOD provided LAWs to help us and not to hurt us.