Caution: Homosexuality Dangerous to Health

[sankazhria16]

no i didnt mean that at all, i was in no way making a conjecture about your wealth. i'm just giving that as an example of a teaching of Christianity that I think is largely overlooked while laws against homosexuality are not. sorry about that.

 

[Pah]

Then by your very logic Beastiality isn't a choice either, and neither is pedophilia, or adultery or perhaps polygamy The line ISN'T OURS to draw (at least not for CHRISTIANS).

None of these are orientations - a drive to a specific gender(s). These are all choices and heterosexuality, homosexuality or bi-sexuality is not. The seems to be a persistent confusion amongst some Christians.

And I'm curious as to what happened to those Christians who have found there is no line between heterosexual and homosexual authority in the bible. Why as soon as just this year and just as an example of others, many Episcopalian Christians have found error in those that condem homosexuality. It was widely reported - haven't you heard?

-pah-

 

[MarkT]

pah

>If love is wasted as a reward for others listening, it hardly deserves the effort to listen.. It's not really love - it's more like an ego trip, a star and his groupies. The greatest love is given unconditionally with the utmost capability. I'm sorry your God put's a price on it.

What you're describing isn't love. Love isn't something you can decide to turn on or turn off. It's a response, not a reward. God responds to us when we listen to Him.

The fruits of the Spirit are love, kindness, mercy and forgiveness. That's what we get when we listen to God. We get His Spirit.

But like I said sex isn't love. It shouldn't be confused with love. Sex is the desire of the flesh. Some people call it lust.

You can love people and have no desire to sleep with them.

>From your description of sex and love, it sounds like you've had neither. I'm sorry again if that's true.

You seem to be intent on linking the two. That idea entered the culture in the sixties, through the music and the images on TV.

Basically we love our children when they listen to us so love isn't unconditional. Unconditional love is a poetic concept but I don't think it exists.

We see God in the person of Jesus Christ. Look at how He acted. That's who we try to imitate. We don't believe in the imaginary concept of God like most of you seem to think.

 

[Pah]

...There was homosexuality practiced among the ancient Greeks Hellenist culture and yet they didn't have same sex marriages...

.

Absolutely wrong. I refer you to Chapter 3, pages 53-107, Same-sex Unions in Premodern Europe by John Boswell, 1994, published by Vintage Books, New York

What will really amaze you is that homosexual marriages were blessed and were performed in Christian churches well into the 13th Century. (same reference). Additionally a special service (actually several services) was written for this joining of two same-sex people. (would you like me to scan it into my PC and post it?)

-pah-

 

[MarkT]

We don't have a false concept of God. We have the true image of God, Jesus Christ.

 

[Green Gaia]

A person with cancer is treated as someone with a disorder. A person with cancer isn't told that GOD created the genes and they are predisposed to have cancer and this is OK and everything is "normal" for them --- go in peace and die whenever. The fact is this is EXACTLY what some (parhaps many homosexuals) are suggesting is true with their disfunction.

Homosexuality is NOT a disorder or disfunction. Every major professional medical organization, (among them the American Psychological Association, the American Psychiatric Association, and the American Medical Association), in this country will tell you that homosexuality is NOT a disorder or disfunction.

 

[painted wolf]

this isn't about who's god is right and who's isn't....

wa:do

 

[Green Gaia]

.

Absolutely wrong. I refer you to Chapter 3, pages 53-107, Same-sex Unions in Premodern Europe by John Boswell, 1994, published by Vintage Books, New York

What will really amaze you is that homosexual marriages were blessed and were performed in Christian churches well into the 13th Century. (same reference). Additionally a special service (actually several services) was written for this joining of two same-sex people. (would you like me to scan it into my PC and post it?)

-pah-

I would love for you to scan that in and post it, pah! I've had an awful time trying to find that book and I've been wanting to read it for a while.

 

[Rex]

But like I said sex isn't love. It shouldn't be confused with love. Sex is the desire of the flesh. Some people call it lust.

The bible says to be "fruitful" .

 

[Green Gaia]

We don't have a false concept of God. We have the true image of God, Jesus Christ.

Yes, Jesus Christ, the model image for love and compassion. It's so sad that so many Christians today fail to follow his example and instead resort to condemnation and intolerance of others in order to feel superior.

 

[Ardhanariswar]

"christian means follower of the 'christ'.christ means messiah means savior.you gave your own interpretation of how a believer should act, this does not however necessarily reflect the scriptural qualifications."

what does it mean to follow christ? dont followers also do what he did. what did jesus do? wwjd? if jesus accepted a prostitute wouldnt you? or would you base your employes on their resume and not their apologies?

 

[Green Gaia]

I find it wrong to force churches to marry homosexual couples.

Can someone please explain to me how churches would be forced to marry homosexual couples when they can pick and choose what heterosexual couples to marry or not to marry? In case you weren't aware, there are several church denominations and religions that are willing to preform same-sex marriage ceremonies. This is not an real issue, but rather some anti-gay groups attempt to scare the average church-goer into siding with them against same-sex marriage.

 

[Ardhanariswar]

Sex. Sex is a tool. it can be used for rape, or for love between a loving couple, for money, etc. sex itself has nothing to it. its the human mind that can make it into anything it wants.
sex is divised into three things. physical for producing children. mental for pleasure, and spiritual for attaining spiritual enlightenment (tantric).

 

[sankazhria16]

"But like I said sex isn't love. It shouldn't be confused with love. Sex is the desire of the flesh. Some people call it lust.
You can love people and have no desire to sleep with them.
You seem to be intent on linking the two. That idea entered the culture in the sixties, through the music and the images on TV.
Basically we love our children when they listen to us so love isn't unconditional. Unconditional love is a poetic concept but I don't think it exists." - MarkT

'ancient Greek has the words philia, eros, agape, and storge, meaning love between friends, romantic/sexual love, unconditional (possibly sacrificial, unreciprocated) love, and affection/familial love respectively.' (http://www.wordiq.com/definition/Love)

I agree that love is distinct from lust. However, eros is very different from lust. Eros is not merely sex or sexual desire, it is romantic love. When I refer to homosexual love, I refer to eros, not lust or any of the other greek words for love.

Of course we can 'love people and have no desire to sleep with them,' but that is not romantic love, it is philia, agape, or storge.

I love many people unconditionally, especially my family(storge). I dont understand how you could stop loving someone because they do not listen to you. Unconditional love absolutely exists. Examples: my unconditional love (storge) for my family, unconditional love (philia) for several close friends, many people's unconditional eros for their spouse, my unconditional agape for mankind. Also, as a Christian, I believe in God's unconditional love for all humankind and for all of His creation.

 

[MarkT]

>None of these are orientations - a drive to a specific gender(s). These are all choices and heterosexuality, homosexuality or bi-sexuality is not. The seems to be a persistent confusion amongst some Christians.

Nobody chooses to become an alcoholic or a drug addict and yet it happens. So nobody chooses to become a slave to sin.

But God has consigned everyone to disoedience so that he can show his mercy to all.

The free gift is eternal life through Jesus Christ.

>And I'm curious as to what happened to those Christians who have found there is no line between heterosexual and homosexual authority in the bible. Why as soon as just this year and just as an example of others, many Episcopalian Christians have found error in those that condem homosexuality. It was widely reported - haven't you heard?

Is it proper to tell your children they can engage in homosexual acts, that God doesn't judge. God does judge. We don't. He does. It's one thing to show mercy. It's another thing to tell people they can be slaves to their sinful passions knowing the wages of sin is death.

 

[dolly]

Nobody chooses to become an alcoholic or a drug addict and yet it happens. So nobody chooses to become a slave to sin.

You choose to become an alcoholic or a drug addict by consciously using the drugs and abusing them. People don't sit down and go, "Hey! I feel like being persecuted, abandoned, abused, and generally treated like a second class citizen. I know! I'll be gay for the day! Now, let me force myself to fall in love with the next gal I see. Then afterwards, I'll go commit suicide!"

Christians love making the alcohol analogy - but it isn't a good one, because people consciously choose to abuse alcohol, but no one consciously chooses their sexuality.

 

[Pah]

...
pah:
>And I'm curious as to what happened to those Christians who have found there is no line between heterosexual and homosexual authority in the bible. Why as soon as just this year and just as an example of others, many Episcopalian Christians have found error in those that condem homosexuality. It was widely reported - haven't you heard?

MarkT:
Is it proper to tell your children they can engage in homosexual acts, that God doesn't judge. God does judge. We don't. He does. It's one thing to show mercy. It's another thing to tell people they can be slaves to their sinful passions knowing the wages of sin is death.

Tell your children whatever you want and maybe God does judge but not neccesarily as you think. But to say WE (taken to mean some Christians) don't is (I'm finding it very difficult to find respectful words) a stunning admission of ignorance (lack of knowledge) or an outright lie. You can not tell me you are unaware of the tremendous effort from conservative Christians to prohibit the US from recognizing same sex marriages as a right. You can not tell me that it is not judgemental when God knows your heart. To say "We do not judge" is the crassest form of denial. If you really believed God is to be the judge without your intervention, you would not be responding to this thread - you would have "given it to God" (or do you feel God is to weak too do it himself?).

When you tell others they are "slaves to their sinful passions" you have made a judgement that their passion is a sin. And you get this from a label "homosexual"? - you know nothing (totally ignorant) of the self-professed homosexual - you have not witnessed, I'll bet, the acts that only God can judge. Yet, you are in the charge to deny secular rights to homosexuals. God has no authority in the Constitution but you would place his laws there. You would force, from your ignorance, a concept of your faith upon society and you are forbidden by scripture (...what is Ceasar's....)and the Constitution from doing so.

Homosexuality is a secular matter and not the business of imposed religion If you would like to agrue from a secular standpoint I would personally welcome it (hehehe and debunk all the arguements hehehe) but I can't abide the denial of judgement and the imposition of religious faith on society. I have served over twenty years in arms in the service of my country, protecting the enjoyment of rights for all, and would, should this battle reach the streets, do so again - I feel that strongly about this infringement by some Christians.

-pah-

 

[LittleNipper]

sankazhria16 Amazing post.

Maize Well said.

Pah, I agree.


Not really much for me to add.




So, "These are people [bisexuals] that have sex with anyone ---- perhaps anything... " isn't supposed to be insulting, huh? :annoyance:

Do you want to see an example of a tolerant Christian? Go look at Sankazhria's post.

There are some people who do plenty of ugly things to themselves and other people and animals. This is a truth and I know that if I'm aware of this others must be also. As a Christian, I try to be understanding of PEOPLE. I am not suppose to be tolerant of the SIN. This is the point. Those who try and fail to do what is right I can offer comfort to. Those that want to believe that they are entitled to do WHATEVER they please WHENEVER they want and don't care who is hurt or offended---I leave up to GOD. But the message is the same repent and place your trust in the LORD Jesus and don't rest in your own power. Rest in GOD's.

 

[HelpMe]

As a Christian, I try to be understanding of PEOPLE. I am not suppose to be tolerant of the SIN. This is the point. Those who try and fail to do what is right I can offer comfort to. Those that want to believe that they are entitled to do WHATEVER they please WHENEVER they want and don't care who is hurt or offended---I leave up to GOD.

well said


--S

 

[Lightkeeper]

My first memory that I was different was at 3. Somehow I made it through my childhood, wearing jeans and climbing trees, when other girls weren't doing this. Then there was the pain of highschool, not being interested in boys and falling in love with the girl at the next desk. There was no one there to help me with my feelings or confusion. Somehow I made it through Highschool. Then like all my other friends I got married. I didn't make it through the marriage. Then there was the final realization that I was gay and there was no one there to help, just Christian family who told me I had female hormones so I couldn't be gay and they shunned me. Somehow I survived them. I turned my entire life over to a higher power, studied and prayed and I was still gay. I know I was born this way. I know that God is more tolerant than is being displayed on this board. I know homosexuality is not a sin. I know we all deserve a good and happy life with all of the privileges everyone has. I know that the only thing that is dangerous to my health is people who profess to know what is best for me and use the tired arguments that homosexuality is a sin. If there is any sin it is intolerance and preaching on a subject you know nothing about.