• Welcome to Religious Forums, a friendly forum to discuss all religions in a friendly surrounding.

    Your voice is missing! You will need to register to get access to the following site features:
    • Reply to discussions and create your own threads.
    • Our modern chat room. No add-ons or extensions required, just login and start chatting!
    • Access to private conversations with other members.

    We hope to see you as a part of our community soon!

'cause in Texas potted plant purloiners are legitimate targets

Reverend Rick

Frubal Whore
Premium Member
What an extreme measure to prevent the theft of a potted plant. :eek:
In some countries, they cut off your hand for stealing. In Texas, you can be shot for trespassing.

Extreme is in the eye of the beholder. Different rules for different places.
 

Terrywoodenpic

Oldest Heretic
In some countries, they cut off your hand for stealing. In Texas, you can be shot for trespassing.

Extreme is in the eye of the beholder. Different rules for different places.

And it depends on what is meant by trespassing.
Just being on some one Else's property is not trespassing in the UK.
But being there causing damage or some other crime is.
Trespass is always a civil matter.

People put up signs saying trespassers will be prosecuted. But I have never known it to happen.
 
Last edited:

9-10ths_Penguin

1/10 Subway Stalinist
Premium Member
In some countries, they cut off your hand for stealing. In Texas, you can be shot for trespassing.

Extreme is in the eye of the beholder. Different rules for different places.

If we start with the sort of proportionality that says the theft of a potted plant warrants a summary execution, then there's not much room to make similarly proportional punishments for more serious crimes. I mean, if that's what you do to a plant thief, what do you do to rapists or crack dealers? Torture their children in front of them?

A society where every crime is punishable by death is one that sends the message that truly heinous crimes are no more serious than petty theft.
 

Reverend Rick

Frubal Whore
Premium Member
If we start with the sort of proportionality that says the theft of a potted plant warrants a summary execution, then there's not much room to make similarly proportional punishments for more serious crimes. I mean, if that's what you do to a plant thief, what do you do to rapists or crack dealers? Torture their children in front of them?

A society where every crime is punishable by death is one that sends the message that truly heinous crimes are no more serious than petty theft.


In many religious communities, there is no greater or lessor sin. I believe that is where that mentality comes from.

In some states, you can stand your ground where in other states you must retreat as far as possible before using deadly force as a last resort.

In Texas, standing on someones property is trespassing. I would hope you need to cross a fence or something, I don't live there, I'm not sure.

In the state of Kentucky, if you steal my plant, I cannot shoot you legally, but if your starting my house on fire I can.

Different rules for different places.

People who travel the world many times run into trouble very quickly.
 

Koldo

Outstanding Member
In some countries, they cut off your hand for stealing. In Texas, you can be shot for trespassing.

Extreme is in the eye of the beholder. Different rules for different places.

I would say the extreme factor remains regardless of the beholder. It is the acceptance of this extreme as a standard that changes from person to person.
 

Reverend Rick

Frubal Whore
Premium Member
I would say the extreme factor remains regardless of the beholder. It is the acceptance of this extreme as a standard that changes from person to person.

I see your point, but it is not like we all sat down and agreed on something.

If your born in a country that cut your hand off for stealing, you grow up to accept that. By the way, it bears mentioning that stealing does not happen that often there.
 

waitasec

Veteran Member
I see your point, but it is not like we all sat down and agreed on something.

If your born in a country that cut your hand off for stealing, you grow up to accept that. By the way, it bears mentioning that stealing does not happen that often there.

a sad truth...

i wonder how many innocent hands have been cut off
 

9-10ths_Penguin

1/10 Subway Stalinist
Premium Member
In many religious communities, there is no greater or lessor sin. I believe that is where that mentality comes from.

In some states, you can stand your ground where in other states you must retreat as far as possible before using deadly force as a last resort.

In Texas, standing on someones property is trespassing. I would hope you need to cross a fence or something, I don't live there, I'm not sure.

In the state of Kentucky, if you steal my plant, I cannot shoot you legally, but if your starting my house on fire I can.

Different rules for different places.

People who travel the world many times run into trouble very quickly.
In the case of Texas, I think these sorts of laws come from a different source: a "pioneer" mentality.

Back in the day, when the nearest marshal was a day's ride away and there might only be a handful of judges in the whole state, if you didn't stop people from taking your stuff yourself, then people could take whatever they wanted from you with impunity. Also, when your survival was sketchy at best anyhow, with no social safety net, someone stealing a sack of flour from you might very well mean the difference between survival and starvation over the winter.

However, life isn't like that any more... but at least in Texas, the law hasn't kept pace with social change.
 

Reverend Rick

Frubal Whore
Premium Member
a sad truth...

i wonder how many innocent hands have been cut off

The issue here as I see it is tradition. If you as a child always ran through the neighbor's yard all your life, the notion of trespassing would escape you.

In Kentucky, we are a commonwealth. If a man owned a pond and you rode your horse past his pond, you have every right to let the horse drink.

I grew up where front yards where different than back yards. Most back yards where fenced and off limits.

Same thing for guns. If you never had a gun in your home, I can understand the uneasiness some folks have about them.

If stealing is frowned upon instead of dealt with severely, people don't make such a big deal about it. Many people don't have a problem with stealing.

We had a local news story about a small theft of a pumpkin. The person was caught stealing a two dollar pumpkin. The owner is pressing charges, and the girl who took it will be put on probation and unable to study overseas next year as planned.

Many in our community say this is too harsh and requests have been made for the man to drop the charges. He is sticking to his principles making the young woman take responsibility for her actions.

Honestly, she does not think what she did was wrong.

It all comes down to how we view things. Myself, I see both sides.

If I was the judge, I would let her pick up trash every weekend for a month and study over seas in the fall unless she did not show up and pick up the trash.

She would have to do a good job as well or the weekend would not count.
 

HiddenDjinn

Well-Known Member
It's My Birthday!
And it depends on what is meant by trespassing.
Just being on some one Else's property is not trespassing in the UK.
But being there causing damage or some other crime is.
Trespass is always a civil matter.

People put up signs saying trespassers will be prosecuted. But I have never known it to happen.
This sign is common back in Arkansas.

no-trespassing-violators-will-be-shot-survivors-will-be-shot-again.jpg


And I have known the sign to be taken literally by the one hanging it.
 

JacobEzra.

Dr. Greenthumb
THis isn't anything. Last week a man got shot down the street for asking a guy who's chihuahua kept pooping in his lawn, to pick the poop up.

People seem willing to kill someone for just about anything these days. :shrug:
 

HiddenDjinn

Well-Known Member
It's My Birthday!
THis isn't anything. Last week a man got shot down the street for asking a guy who's chihuahua kept pooping in his lawn, to pick the poop up.

People seem willing to kill someone for just about anything these days. :shrug:
In New York City, a city with some of the toughest gun laws in the US, someone gets shot for some stupid reason every week. That's just how it is.
 

JacobEzra.

Dr. Greenthumb
In New York City, a city with some of the toughest gun laws in the US, someone gets shot for some stupid reason every week. That's just how it is.

Yeah that is how Philly is. I just moved here, and am just surprised. :shrug: oh well, just gotta watch it. Can't live in fear, right?
 

HiddenDjinn

Well-Known Member
It's My Birthday!
Yeah that is how Philly is. I just moved here, and am just surprised. :shrug: oh well, just gotta watch it. Can't live in fear, right?
If you live in fear, it shows on your face as you walk down the street. Scared pedestrians are targets. I personally walk around ready to **** up anyone who tries to start something.
 

Kathryn

It was on fire when I laid down on it.
I'd rather be judged by 12 than carried by 6.

Here's the REAL scoop on Texas law regarding trespassing:

80(R) SB 378 - Enrolled version - Bill Text

(a) Except as provided in Subsection (b), a person is
justified in using force against another when
and to the degree the
actor [he] reasonably believes the force is immediately necessary
to protect the actor [himself] against the other's use or attempted
use of unlawful force.
The actor's belief that the force was
immediately necessary as described by this subsection is presumed
to be reasonable if the actor:

(1) knew or had reason to believe that the person
against whom the force was used:
(A) unlawfully and with force entered, or was
attempting to enter unlawfully and with force,
the actor's occupied
habitation, vehicle, or place of business or employment;
(B) unlawfully and with force removed, or was
attempting to remove unlawfully and with force, the actor from the
actor's habitation, vehicle, or place of business or employment; or
(C) was committing or attempting to commit
aggravated kidnapping, murder, sexual assault, aggravated sexual
assault, robbery, or aggravated robbery;
(2) did not provoke the person against whom the force
was used; and
(3) was not otherwise engaged in criminal activity,
other than a Class C misdemeanor that is a violation of a law or
ordinance regulating traffic at the time the force was used.
(e) A person who has a right to be present at the location
where the force is used, who has not provoked the person against
whom the force is used, and who is not engaged in criminal activity
at the time the force is used is not required to retreat before
using force as described by this section.



DEADLY FORCE IN DEFENSE OF PERSON. (a) A person
is justified in using deadly force against another:
(1) if the actor [he] would be justified in using force
against the other under Section 9.31; and
(2) [if a reasonable person in the actor's situation
would not have retreated; and
[(3)] when and to the degree the actor [he] reasonably
believes
the deadly force is immediately necessary:
(A) to protect the actor [himself] against the
other's use or attempted use of unlawful deadly force
; or
(B) to prevent the other's imminent commission of
aggravated kidnapping, murder, sexual assault, aggravated sexual
assault, robbery, or aggravated robbery.



CIVIL IMMUNITY [AFFIRMATIVE DEFENSE]. A [It
is an affirmative defense to a civil action for damages for personal
injury or death that the] defendant who uses force or[, at the time
the cause of action arose, was justified in using] deadly force that
is justified under Chapter 9 [Section 9.32], Penal Code, is immune
from civil liability for personal injury or death that results from
the defendant's [against a person who at the time of the] use of
force or deadly force, as applicable [was committing an offense of
unlawful entry in the habitation of the defendant].


In 2010, Texas ranked 35 out of the 50 states for crime rates. Room for improvement, but not bad, especially considering that we're a border state.

http://os.cqpress.com/rankings/2010/Crime_State_Rankings_2010.pdf

Don't mess with Texas.
 

Drolefille

PolyPanGeekGirl
Dear Texas,

The rest of the country is aware that "Don't Mess With Texas" is an anti-littering sign.

We're really not that impressed.

Sincerely,
The rest of the county

(And that just confirms to me that shooting the guy for stealing the plants wasn't reasonable.)
 
Top