catholics, orthodox, and protestants: can you explain the trinity?

[metis]

Studying what Metis? Thats the question.

Theology, and not just Catholic theology. I used to teach a comparative religions course, so in order to teach and anticipate questions, you study. I also studied Islam at a one week daily 6-hour seminar that was sponsored by ARAMCO, plus I spent time at several mosques in the Middle East and at home here. Of course, I don't profess to know Islam at your level.

 

[URAVIP2ME]

John 1:10 says that Jesus created the world.













Colossians 1:16 says that all things are created by Jesus and upheld by His power.
John 20:28, the Apostle Thomas says..."My Lord and my God".
1st Timothy 3:16 says that God was born in the flesh.

Jesus told the Pharisees....>"before Abraham was......I AM"......and "I Am" is God's designation for Himself as spoken to Moses from the burning bush.

Jesus said, "if you've see me, you've seen the Father".

Jesus said..>"You believe in God, believe also in Me".

Jesus said....""Father forgive them they know not what they do".

Jesus said...."Father not my will, but yours be done"...

John 14:26.....Jesus said.."the Comforter will come, (holy Spirit)".

Acts 2, the Holy Spirit came.
----------------------------------------------------------------

If you do the math, you have.

God, The Father,

Jesus, the Word

The Holy Spirit , the comforter.

That's 3. yet, ONE SPIRIT., as "God is A Spirit".

Jesus said you "Must be born again".....and Christian's are born again Spiritually.

Yes, the world came into existence through pre-human Jesus - John 1:3-4,10
This we can see by the word "US" at Genesis 1:26 (The 'us' meaning more than one person )
Hebrews 1:1-3 speaking about God: that God speaks to us by means of His Son.
The Son whom God appointed ....and by whom God made the world....
Or, as 1 Corinthians 8:6 says to us One God (who is the Father ) and one Lord who is Jesus Christ.

 

[Dogknox20]

Oh I see. So this whole thing about the Holy Spirit being the "Love" between God and Jesus was to justify the apologetic of "To love, you need one or two more people around". Mate. Thats not logic, that's illogical. If God is love, he doesnt need others to have it. God was a creator long before creation which is his quality and he doesnt need creation to have that quality. Without that quality he cannot create. So logically he has to always be a creator. That is logic.

Anyway now I understand what this whole thing was all about. So much effort to say "God had someone else with him".

.
.God had to have another with him to be perfect.....In the beginning was the Word, and the Word was with God, and the Word was God. 2 He was with God in the beginning.
It is NOT logical to love self.. Love is = "Giving of self for another person"! Love of self is called "Selfishness"!
Love costs you something!

Logic says... God cannot be perfect love if there is no one to love! Perfect love means Giving of self completely for another! EVERY..

firedragon every action of these righteous is an act of love..
37 “Then the righteous will answer him, ‘Lord, when did we see you hungry and feed you, or thirsty and give you something to drink? 38 When did we see you a stranger and invite you in, or needing clothes and clothe you? 39 When did we see you sick or in prison and go to visit you?’

40 “The King will reply, ‘Truly I tell you, whatever you did for one of the least of these brothers and sisters of mine, you did for me.’

 

[URAVIP2ME]

John 20:28, the Apostle Thomas says..."My Lord and my God".







1st Timothy 3:16 says that God was born in the flesh.

Jesus told the Pharisees....>"before Abraham was......I AM"......and "I Am" is God's designation for Himself as spoken to Moses from the burning bush.

Jesus said, "if you've see me, you've seen the Father".

Jesus said..>"You believe in God, believe also in Me".

Jesus said....""Father forgive them they know not what they do".

Jesus said...."Father not my will, but yours be done"...

John 14:26.....Jesus said.."the Comforter will come, (holy Spirit)".

Acts 2, the Holy Spirit came.
----------------------------------------------------------------

If you do the math, you have.

God, The Father,

Jesus, the Word

The Holy Spirit , the comforter.

That's 3. yet, ONE SPIRIT., as "God is A Spirit".

Jesus said you "Must be born again".....and Christian's are born again Spiritually.

Before verse 28, I find earlier at John 20:17 Jesus is speaking.
Just as Jesus previously spoke at John 17:3 about the only true God AND Jesus whom -> God sent.
The materialized resurrected Jesus said he has Not yet ascended to his Father....and my God and your God.
So, Thomas was Not contradicting Jesus at verse 28, but directed to the God of Jesus.
Even today on the news we hear people say in front of a reporter, " Oh my God!" and we know the person does Not believe the reporter is his God.
Even the resurrected ascended-to-heaven Jesus still thinks he has a God over him at Revelation 3:12

 

[firedragon]

Logic says... God cannot be perfect love if there is no one to love!

You are basically saying God is not powerful, he is not capable, and he has no capacity to love without others in the picture, like a man who has no capacity to make a child before he consummates with a woman, although even in human terms a man has the capacity, just that to activate that capacity he has to have a woman. A woman generally has the capacity to have a child and to bear a child she needs a man, that does not mean before she has sex with a man or does an IVF she is barren.

If you think God is as weak as a human being then that's your prerogative.

 

[firedragon]

Theology, and not just Catholic theology. I used to teach a comparative religions course, so in order to teach and anticipate questions, you study. I also studied Islam at a one week daily 6-hour seminar that was sponsored by ARAMCO, plus I spent time at several mosques in the Middle East and at home here. Of course, I don't profess to know Islam at your level.

Metis. All your studies are great. Any kind of study, anyone makes is great. I didnt mean to ask you what education you have. Never.

Can you justify the trinity of one oosia with three representations, with one of them being just a conduit for this so called "love" between two other hypostasis while also being eesotomos, sinomilicos? Think about it. Its illogical. This is considering the trinitas of iranaeus and the athanasian creed. I believe you would consider that catholic theology.

 

[Bethel]

Yes, the world came into existence through pre-human Jesus - John 1:3-4,10
This we can see by the word "US" at Genesis 1:26 (The 'us' meaning more than one person )
Hebrews 1:1-3 speaking about God: that God speaks to us by means of His Son.
The Son whom God appointed ....and by whom God made the world....
Or, as 1 Corinthians 8:6 says to us One God (who is the Father ) and one Lord who is Jesus Christ.

Yes.

In Genesis 1:26, the "us", or "our", "Image", is definitely plural.

 

[Bethel]

Before verse 28, I find earlier at John 20:17 Jesus is speaking.
Just as Jesus previously spoke at John 17:3 about the only true God AND Jesus whom -> God sent.
The materialized resurrected Jesus said he has Not yet ascended to his Father....and my God and your God.
So, Thomas was Not contradicting Jesus at verse 28, but directed to the God of Jesus.
Even today on the news we hear people say in front of a reporter, " Oh my God!" and we know the person does Not believe the reporter is his God.
Even the resurrected ascended-to-heaven Jesus still thinks he has a God over him at Revelation 3:12

Yes.
All true.

 

[URAVIP2ME]

.....22 And the Lord God said, “The man has now become like one of us, knowing good and evil. He must not be allowed to reach out his hand and take also from the tree of life and eat, and live forever.”..become like one of us

No, unlike Adam and Eve, God had Not learned Bad by doing Bad.- Psalms 92:15. Satan's lie at Genesis 3:5.
Adam and Eve got to know Bad in that they decided to judge against God for themselves what was good or bad.
They placed their judgement above God's judgement, their independent judgement of what is good or bad.
Pre-human heavenly Jesus would have known his Father's standards (way of thinking) so the Son could and would determine what was good and bad in his Father's eyes.

 

[metis]

I didnt mean to ask you what education you have. Never.

I did it not to brag but posted it just to mention my long-term interest in Islam and that I am not judgmental.

Can you justify the trinity of one oosia with three representations, with one of them being just a conduit for this so called "love" between two other hypostasis while also being eesotomos, sinomilicos?

In Catholicism, the "Mystery of the Trinity" as we often call it, uses the concept of "essence" that came from the Greeks, especially Aristotle.

Thus, Jesus and the Holy Spirit are believed to be of the "essence of God". IOW, they're "of" God, thus we don't believe they are gods, which would then be polytheism of course.

Think about it. Its illogical.

Not really, but that doesn't mean nor imply it's correct. As for myself, I reserve judgement.

 

[Dogknox20]

No, unlike Adam and Eve, God had Not learned Bad by doing Bad.- Psalms 92:15. Satan's lie at Genesis 3:5.
Adam and Eve got to know Bad in that they decided to judge against God for themselves what was good or bad.
They placed their judgement above God's judgement, their independent judgement of what is good or bad.
Pre-human heavenly Jesus would have known his Father's standards (way of thinking) so the Son could and would determine what was good and bad in his Father's eyes.

URAVIP2ME I must say right up front you are wrong..
Adam did not love God!
1 John 2:3 We know that we have come to know him if we keep his commands.
&
1 John 5:3 In fact, this is love for God: to keep his commands. And his commands are not burdensome,
&
2 John 1:6 And this is love: that we walk in obedience to his commands. As you have heard from the beginning, his command is that you walk in love.

Adam was commanded.. Adam did not keep the command he did not love God.. Loving God is to do what is commanded!
16 And the Lord God commanded the man, “You are free to eat from any tree in the garden;

Adam was removed from Paradise because he did not love!
2 And the Lord God said, “The man has now become like one of us, knowing good and evil. He must not be allowed to reach out his hand and take also from the tree of life and eat, and live forever.”.

US.. Plural more then one! God is more then one he is THREE!

 

[firedragon]

I did it not to brag but posted it just to mention my long-term interest in Islam and that I am not judgmental.

All due respect Metis.

In Catholicism, the "Mystery of the Trinity" as we often call it, uses the concept of "essence" that came from the Greeks, especially Aristotle.

Thus, Jesus and the Holy Spirit are believed to be of the "essence of God". IOW, they're "of" God, thus we don't believe they are gods, which would then be polytheism of course.

Oh God. Thats completely irrelevant to the question I asked. I never said "they are Gods", neither did I even get close to polytheism or question the model of the trinity or anything of the sort. Please take it for granted that the concept of trinity is understood, and let me cut and paste my question once more to see if that could get a direct response in context of the question itself.

"Can you justify the trinity of one oosia with three representations, with one of them being just a conduit for this so called "love" between two other hypostasis while also being eesotomos, sinomilicos?"

This question is based on posts in this very page, and based on their claims. So if you have not grasped the question you can clarify.

 

[metis]

"Can you justify the trinity of one oosia with three representations, with one of them being just a conduit for this so called "love" between two other hypostasis while also being eesotomos, sinomilicos?"

I did not post anything about the "love" part, nor did I comment on it. As for hypostasis, this essentially is what I had posted about earlier as it's correlation is the concept of "essence".

Also, the other words I tried look up through google, including using Google Translate, but to no avail. Maybe if you gave me your definitions?

 

[Dogknox20]

esotomos,

All due respect Metis.



Oh God. Thats completely irrelevant to the question I asked. I never said "they are Gods", neither did I even get close to polytheism or question the model of the trinity or anything of the sort. Please take it for granted that the concept of trinity is understood, and let me cut and paste my question once more to see if that could get a direct response in context of the question itself.

"Can you justify the trinity of one oosia with three representations, with one of them being just a conduit for this so called "love" between two other hypostasis while also being eesotomos, sinomilicos?"

This question is based on posts in this very page, and based on their claims. So if you have not grasped the question you can clarify.

Simply.. God is PERFECT! If he does anything not perfectly he would not be God!
Perfect love is .. Love for another!

 

[metis]

Perfect love is .. Love for another!

This reminds me of Gandhi's oft spoken words, namely "God is Love" and "God is Truth".

 

[firedragon]

I did not post anything about the "love" part, nor did I comment on it.

Metis. Thats exactly what I was talking about, and maybe you commented with the wrong answer to the wrong question without knowing the context.

Thanks.

 

[firedragon]

Simply.. God is PERFECT! If he does anything not perfectly he would not be God!

Exactly. That is why what you are proposing is not only illogical, but is also absolutely contradicting the trinity concept of the 4th century.

Ciao Dogknox. All good.

 

[Dogknox20]

Exactly. That is why what you are proposing is not only illogical, but is also absolutely contradicting the trinity concept of the 4th century.

Ciao Dogknox. All good.

.
firedragon don't stop.. You did not tell me about the Trinity concept of the forth 4th century! I know in the 4th century they declared officially "Jesus is God"!

 

[firedragon]

.
firedragon don't stop.. You did not tell me about the Trinity concept of the forth 4th century! I know in the 4th century they declared officially "Jesus is God"!

Err. Not really. Jesus was declared God before that mate.

I was not arguing if Jesus was God or not anyway. Maybe go back and read the question once more.

 

[metis]

Metis. Thats exactly what I was talking about, and maybe you commented with the wrong answer to the wrong question without knowing the context.

Thanks.

The above is not logical statement-- but whatever.