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Catholics and Christians

Discussion in 'Religious Debates' started by Runt, Apr 21, 2004.

  1. Runt

    Runt Well-Known Member

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    Catholics and Christians... what's the difference?
     
  2. Rex

    Rex Founder
    It's My Birthday!

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    Well not sure what your asking b/c I know you know this:

    Christian is a general term

    Catholic is a denomination of that general term
     
  3. Runt

    Runt Well-Known Member

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    Aye, this is actually designed in particular to divert an off-topic debate in the "What Defines Church Law?" forum to its own forum so others can particpate in the "What Defines Church Law?" forum without wondering why everything is so off topic and heated... :p
     
  4. Green Gaia

    Green Gaia Veteran Member

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    I don't get the reason it got heated over there either, but not being Catholic OR Christian, I guess I wouldn't lol. But I'll be watching this thread to find out what all the fuss it about.
     
  5. Runt

    Runt Well-Known Member

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    LOL, I have a feeling this debate is about to get a LOT more heated...in the OTHER forum! :p

    Hopefully the combatants will come on over here....
     
  6. Rex

    Rex Founder
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    :fight:
     
  7. Green Gaia

    Green Gaia Veteran Member

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    I guess to me, Catholics have always just been another Christian denomination, like Methodists or Baptists or Episcopalians or Presbyterians. Is this not the case?
     
  8. Runt

    Runt Well-Known Member

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    Yeah, but I think they also have the claim of historically being the FIRST Christians (after Jesus and his followers, of course). So I'm not sure they consider THEMSELVES to be "just another branch of Christianity". Though that is how I, a non Christian, regard them. :p
     
  9. Green Gaia

    Green Gaia Veteran Member

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    I guess they do rely heavily on Paul's teachings, and if they claim the Catholic church started with him, then they would be "first" in organizing. But does being first necessarily mean they can lay claim to being the only true church of Jesus Christ? (Yes, I'm fanning the flames lol).
     
  10. Master Vigil

    Master Vigil Well-Known Member

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    I think they say St. Peter started the roman catholic church as Jesus told him to do so. And I think St. Paul started the orthodox catholic. I'm not sure though. But the roman catholic or just catholic in general was first. And I read in the other forum that Mary had no deity. This is true, and even catholics believe this to be true. It is a big misconception that protestants have of the catholic church. They think catholics worship mary and the saints. This isn't so, they honor mary and the saints. There is a big difference.

    And about the reformation, the biggest thing that started the reformation was the fact that only priests could read the bible. The common folk could not and therefore could only go by what the priests and bishops said about it. Luther wanted the bible translated so that everyone could read it and form their own opinions about it. I think the lutheran mass is almost identical to a catholic mass. That is what I hear. No formal experience in that area.
     
  11. Anberlin Finch

    Anberlin Finch New Member

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    There is absolutly no difference between any Catholic daughter, Catholicism is Christianity is Catholicism. It is taught in all Christian Churches including Catholicism that need but believe in Jesus to be saved. The fact that there is dissention and hatred between sects is purely hypoctritic. According to each Christian doctrine no man is perfect and therefore cannot got to heaven without first taking Jesus into your heart as Savior. Using Christian thought, Id say anyone at all that asks Jesus to be their savior will be saved. Of course, this proves that the g-d of the New Testament breeds confusion and contempt amongst like minded individuals.
     
  12. The Ocelot

    The Ocelot Member

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    Actually, there is a huge difference. Let's look at what a catholic believes compared to what the bible says:

    Catholic: Jesus said that St. Peter would start the church.
    Bible: Jesus said, "This is the rock on which I will build my church." (meaning himself)

    Catholic: I can be faithful through good works and always going to church.
    Bible: Good works come out of faith, but no good works can compensate for sin.

    Catholic: I pray through saints.
    Bible: Prayer to anything other than God is idol worship.

    I have school now, i will finish this later.
     
  13. Anberlin Finch

    Anberlin Finch New Member

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    All Christianity is Idol worship. You all pray to Jesus instead of YHWH. The Jewish messiah prophesied about was never to be considered a god in the flesh. This new age Christ of yours is pure toiletry. Now on to my point in the first post.

    Christians believe that Jesus will overlook and forgive sins to anyone that comes to him in his fathers name. Since NO Christian is considered perfect then why are you saying that Catholics arent perfect? Are they less perfect then you and therefore cannot reach Heaven? You do know that Catholicism introduced your religion to you right? The Christians took the religion that was given them and changed to fit their ideals. Just like every sect of Christianity. From Holy rollers to Seventh Day Adventists. Christianity is a melting pot of beliefs and ideals. The war comes for narrow minded individuals buying into what their(business men) preacers tell them. You know why people go from Church to church? Because they are looking for a religion THEY agree with! Now understand that salesman Preacher has his Church denomination in big bold letters on that sign to attract people who agree with him because he knows if you agree then youll help with the bills.
     
  14. Master Vigil

    Master Vigil Well-Known Member

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    Catholic priests and monks don't worry about money as much as the protestant denominations do. And are you reading the king james bible, cuz in the bible i always read said, you are the rock on which i will build my church. meaning st. peter. I'd quote it but i can't find my bible. And the second, catholics believe both of what you said. going to church is necessary only for communion every week. That is there main purpose of mass. And thirdly, have you ever asked someone to pray for you?? i'm sure you have, its the same with saints. however, saints are dead and therefore closer to god, so why not have a saint pray for you. So they don't pray TO saints, they ask saints to pray for them. Many misconceptions about the catholic church.
     
  15. Lightkeeper

    Lightkeeper Well-Known Member

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    The Catholics worship Mary and communicate through saints. With other Christian denominations it is God and Jesus only that are worshipped. In Mexico Mary is worshipped more than Jesus. Catholics have formal confession.
     
  16. Anberlin Finch

    Anberlin Finch New Member

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    Well I dont take anything into my heart that the NT has to offer. I was born and raised a christian but my eyes are wide open now as I have an undeniable urge to know the truth. I tried for so long to keep from turning away from what I had learned but eventually research and study sang a whole different tune from what I was used to and I liked it because it was undeniable truth.

    On the topic: All believers in Jesus should just accept one another as their salvational message is the same.
     
  17. anders

    anders Well-Known Member

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    To address the original question: All Catholics are Christians, but there are Christians who are ‎not Catholics. And there are Catholics who are not Roman Catholics, like the Orthodox churches.‎

    The differences between the Catholic (C) and Protestant (P) faiths may seem small to outsiders, ‎but you can fill books with them. Some “major” points which come to my mind are: P does not ‎recognise saints as mediators. C has a dogma on Mary’s virginity before, during and after Jesus’ ‎birth. Few P agree on all of it, and do not believe that Mary’s conception was “immaculate” as C ‎do. C says that the bread and wine used in the Eucharist are transformed into Jesus’ very flesh and ‎blood (transubstantiation), but keeps all outwardly signs of bread and wine. P says that the bread ‎and wine still are there (consubstantiation), but that Jesus’ very flesh and blood is there too ‎‎(between the bread and wine molecules?)‎

    There is nothing even remotely resembling the authority of the C Pope and patriarchs in P. The ‎Archbishop of Sweden is positive to the rights of homosexuals, sceptical to Jesus’ miracles, does ‎not believe in he resurrection of Christ or in Jesus' virgin birth. (Very sensible views, if you ask ‎me.) The only persons who could remove him are his Swedish bishop peers. And they do not.‎

    Some points raised: Catholic and Protestant mass are structurally very close, but in P mass ‎practice there is no running back and forth with bread and wine, no use of holy water, extremely ‎seldom making the sign of the cross, no incense waving, no little bells ringing etc. etc. (Correct ‎me if I have misunderstood the C mass; I have never been inside a C church. P refers in this case ‎to the Church of Sweden (which is Lutheran))‎

    I do not understand the comment “Catholic priests and monks don't worry about money as much ‎as the protestant denominations do.” That may be something American. My Swedish community ‎had no more financial worries than any other secular or religious community; probably less, ‎because of the predictable level of the church tax, levied together with national and local ‎community tax. So there is no need for the clergy to “sell” something, because there are no ‎donations. What is given as collection during mass is often for special projects, often nation-wide, ‎and has then nothing to do with the funding of the running of the community.‎

    ‎“Using Christian thought, Id say anyone at all that asks Jesus to be their savior will be saved.” ‎Unfortunately, that is not true for Lutherans. It is a very firm and basic Lutheran dogma that you ‎cannot come to believe in God through your own efforts, but only through God’s grace. Luther ‎and several others even thought that God already has decided who will go to heaven and who will ‎go to hell (the thesis of the double predestination). That is, I think, very contrary to C belief.‎
     
  18. The Ocelot

    The Ocelot Member

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    Keep also in mind that not all Presbyterian/Evangelical-Free churches are Lutheran. I believe what comes straight out of the bible. And the bible seems to point way away from predestination.
     
  19. anders

    anders Well-Known Member

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    OK, schoolmaster Ocelot, I should perhaps have been more clear in pointing out that my view of mass is the Swedish Lutheran one.

    Regarding predestination, I tried to explain that the views I discussed are those of Luther and several other reformators. On the other hand, in the first sentence of my last paragraph in my previous post, I referred to the accepted view of all Lutheran churches.

    As for Bible passages that can be interpreted as support for predestination, I suggest 2 Corinthians 3:5 and John 15:5, and perhaps also Phil. 2:13. You are most welcome to quote counterexamples.
     
  20. Quilter

    Quilter New Member

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    I am a former Catholic and am very familiar with Catholic doctrine.
    There is a HUGE difference between Biblical Christianity and CAtholic teaching. Perhaps the biggest difference can be summed up with this term: "The Sufficiency of Christ". Please allow me to explain. Catholicism teaches that Christ did not or could not completely redeem mankind at Calvary, hence the necessity of continuing the work of redemption through the Mass and Eucharist. Biblical Christianity, on the other hand, asserts that Christ completed His perfect work of redemption when He died on the cross, leaving NOTHING for sinful man to do (re: his salvation) except by faith trust that Christ did what He said He did. What?!! You mean to tell me just a simple act of faith can approopriate Christ's death and sin payment on my behalfl? Yes, it's simple yet profound. You see, it gives ALL the glory to Christ and none to sunful me, since I am unable to do anything that would be acceptable to Holy God for my own atonement. ANd remember, God's word says we cannot respond in faith unless the Spirit of God calls us. The good news is that He calls everyone--even the native in the bush who has never heard the name of Christ--read Romans Chapter 1. What will your answer be when Almighty God asks you why He should let you into His heaven? Will it be "I trusted Christ alone to save me" or "Well, God, I've done this, this and this, and oh yes, I've trired to follow the commandments and I attended church faithfully and received the Eucharist too, etc., etc."
    The world tells us that you don't get something for nothing and sadly, most world religions (including Catholicism) are in agreement. The good news , i.e., the gospel message, is this: We are all sinners bound for hell but Christ died in our place, making complete atonement for our sins so that God will find us fully acceptable--based on what His Son did NOT on anything we could ever do. That's more than good--that's GREAT AWESOME news!
    When you deny the redemption was insufficieint it opens a huge Pandora's box--examples: other mediators, merited salvation, purgatory, tradition and magesterial authority taking precedence over Scripture, indulgences, good works as means to appease God, etc.
    One more note on differences: Catholic grace is merited while biblical grace is unmerited. Same word but opposite meaning.
    Hate the apostacy---Love the apostate!
     
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