Catholicism vs. Christianity

[Unveiled Artist]

Recreating the literal blood and flesh recreates endlessly the sacrifice. This is wrong. There was one sacrifice, for all humanity for all sins, past present and future. Christ said on the cross, "it is finished", and it was. It is a grievous error to believe to that the cross wasn't adequete, and must be repeated

I understand what you're saying. Here are my thoughts. Maybe a Catholic would even disagree. When you go to Mass, you are participating in Christ's 1. Life, 2. Death, and 3. Resurrection. You are basically reliving (edit: better word: Living, his life, being crucified with him, and resurrected in him) during Mass. That is what the Eucharist is about. Christ's Passion.

So, when I used to go to Mass, I remind myself of my baptism by holy water (or salt water, however one sees it). I pray preparing myself to be a part of his body, same worship, same passion. We go through the ceremony (if you like), and afer the transubstantiation, Christ is made real in the Eucharist (which that part I have trouble with though not wrong).

When the priest (in the symbol of Christ, if you like), says "this is blood and this is my body" he isn't re-crucifying Jesus. He is bring Jesus (the Eucharist) to the congregation. Jesus has already been crucified and resurrected. So, it is not the body of Jesus (his flesh, limbs, hair), it is his Spirit.

Think about it, though. If it is finished (which I understand) than no one would have Jesus in them. No Christian would have Jesus because he would have left them and said "you're on your own." However, that isn't the case. Mass included.

So, when Jesus is made present in the Eucharist, he is made present as the body of Christ. His spirit is given to everyone in Mass who have repented (the beginning of Mass), lived his life (by communion with brothers and sisters in christ), died in him (this is my body and this is my blood), resurrected in him (when the priest says "this is the body/blood of Christ" when given the Eucharist. Then the Catholic receives the final blessing from god and stays in final prayer and devotion and the Passion has been relieved lived within the Catholic. It's a literal event just as being born again is.

If it was finished, no one would be Christian-Catholic or not. Taking the Eucharist is a constant confirmation of repentance, forgiveness, blessings, and prayer. It's remembering our baptism and reflecting on our confessions/repentance. It is not a symbol-that's like saying Jesus is a symbol. To many Catholics it is literal. I would venture to say, it is literal because of what I just describe.

Though Catholics have various ways of putting it.

You are right, it is the action that is wrong. We all struggle with thoughts and desires. It takes faith and discipline to not act on these. I know folk with homosexual tendencies who are celibate rather than disobey the commands. The point is, for a true Protestant Christian the Bible is what defines people

Homosexuality (according to scripture) is an action. Gay/Lesbian/Bi/Transgender is not (which is not in scripture hence cant be proven wrong).

People struggle with homosexual tendencies, sure. I never did, thank gosh. I was in an accepting environment where who I am. Which means accepting that I am a person who is spiritually, physically, and mentally attracted to people of the same gender. It has nothing to do with actions. I did nothing when they knew. I did nothing when they accepted me. Just as my being a poet and my being a African American, it is just me. Not many straight people think about this. It's second nature. If people were accepting to everyone, it would be second nature to gay/straight/bi/transgender too. We wouldn't be arguing who we are attracted. It would be normal. We'd (christians) would be more of what people do-straight people included.

So, biblical definitions do not apply to gay/lesbian/bi/transgeder. They apply to All people. Straight people included.

The Bible is not a good resource to determine if gay/lesbian/bi/transgender are GBLT because of what they do. It just says that homosexuality is an action and that anyone straight or not who acts in that manner is a homosexual.

It's like Christians using a fork to eat soap. Unless there is another way to show gay/lesbian/bi/transgender are not who they are and who they identify themselves as, how can you say they are wrong? By what means can you tell them that who they are is wrong?​

This has nothing to do with tendencies, actions, etc. It has to do with the persons themselves.​

 

[metis]

The "report" of the Early Church is contained in the book of Acts. Do you understand what the Holy Spirit was going to do? (Hint: John 16: 13 then read Acts chapters 1 and 2)

That is only part of what the early church wrote, so you might consider reading the many letters and documents from the 2nd century church that actually helps to clarify some items.

To your question, the answer is yes, but it begs the question as to whether you actually know. As to your verses posted, I've read them many, many times, plus I taught it. So, maybe it's best for you to actually get to the point versus just playing some sort of game.

Oh, btw, the book of Acts was chosen by the C.C. to be part of the canon, and this was done in the 4th century. The book of Acts, plus the rest of the "N.T.", did not chose itself nor did it chose the church, so you're quite confused in terms of cause-and-effect and probably early church history in general.

 

[metis]

Catholicism changes its stance on nearly everything - notice the pope said "Who am I to judge" when it came to homosexuality. This church is an apostate church, void of truth.

Well, since the RCC teaches about Jesus being "God's only son", and that followers must believe in Jesus, then what you are saying is that what the scriptures say about Jesus is wrong. And here I thought you were a Christian.

 

[metis]

From wiki:
The Catholic Church teaches that Protestant churches are not in fact real churches as they do not have apostolic tradition of ordinations, and therefore, do not have valid Eucharist, nor are they in full communion with the successor of Saint Peter, the Pope.

Soooooo, it seems the Catholic Church rules that "other" Christian denominations
aren't Christian.
Humph!
So only Baptized Catholics are favored by "god" and go to Catholic "heaven"?
Thoughts?

No, that is not the correct interpretation of what RCC Canon Law actually says. Quite the reverse, matter of fact.

 

[metis]

A Christian believes in Christianity. A Catholic believes in Catholicism.

Catholicism is one branch of Christianity, and it happens to be by far the largest one.

 

[metis]

Terrywoodenpic says:
"It took the authority of Augustine to establish the the primacy of that church."
Likely more a political move than any "religious" conversion.
Thoughts?
(never mind what the t-v media suggests)

The primacy of the church can actually be found in Acts, which clearly states that Jesus' message and power were passed on to the apostles and who they appointed.

 

[jeager106]

Catholicism is one branch of Christianity, and it happens to be by far the largest one.

Yes this^^^.
That does NOT make it the right one.
We Are Right. Short version is...............
W.A.R.
Or war for short.


https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Catholic_Church

Reports the approx. number of Catholics, members of the largest Church.

 

[metis]

Yes this^^^.
That does NOT make it the right one.
We Are Right. Short version is...............
W.A.R.
Or war for short.


https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Catholic_Church

Reports the approx. number of Catholics, members of the largest Church.

I certainly would not claim that it is the "right one", but neither would I claim "W.A.R." with one exception, and that is if one takes Joseph Campbell's approach of "... and the myth becomes the reality". IOW, what is "right" is what is right for each of us.

 

[Palehorse]

Catholicism is one branch of Christianity, and it happens to be by far the largest one.

OK you are right. I am circumcized and that is a Jewish/Christian practice. You have now converted me back to being a Christian. I will stop at the store and get the latest UP(porcupine Press) Bible. U betcha der heh.

Tonights snack is...

Join ups

 

[metis]

OK you are right. I am circumcized and that is a Jewish/Christian practice. You have now converted me back to being a Christian. I will stop at the store and get the latest UP(porcupine Press) Bible. U betcha der heh.

Tonights snack is...

Join ups

Nah, what you need to eat is da official Yooper seven-course meal-- a pasty flushed down with a six-pack.

BTW, the place that sells the above is walking distance from my place here. By chance, have you been up here in "God's country"?

 

[Palehorse]

Nah, what you need to eat is da official Yooper seven-course meal-- a pasty flushed down with a six-pack.

BTW, the place that sells the above is walking distance from my place here. By chance, have you been up here in "God's country"?

I find just as much truth from that UP magazine as a Bible, a Christian would most likely disagree. Knowledge is humor. The porcupine is a very sacred animal to the natives.

Humour (in Commonwealth English), or humor (in American English) is the tendency of particular cognitive experiences to provoke laughter and provide amusement. The term derives from the humoral medicine of the ancient Greeks, which taught that the balance of fluids in the human body, known as humours (Latin: humor, "body fluid"), controlled human health and emotion.


I walked over the Marinette bridge, and went up to the Spaulding Light by the casino for a few hours, other than that...no.

You know, since Michigan is going broke and all, how about giving the UP back to Meskonsing, would solve your problems.

 

[metis]

You know, since Michigan is going broke and all, how about giving the UP back to Meskonsing, would solve your problems.

Actually, we're not doing too bad financially even though we've got truly wacko state congressmen with a governor to match, but none of them are even stupid enough so as to give da cheese-heads da U.P.

 

[shmogie]

I understand what you're saying. Here are my thoughts. Maybe a Catholic would even disagree. When you go to Mass, you are participating in Christ's 1. Life, 2. Death, and 3. Resurrection. You are basically reliving (edit: better word: Living, his life, being crucified with him, and resurrected in him) during Mass. That is what the Eucharist is about. Christ's Passion.

So, when I used to go to Mass, I remind myself of my baptism by holy water (or salt water, however one sees it). I pray preparing myself to be a part of his body, same worship, same passion. We go through the ceremony (if you like), and afer the transubstantiation, Christ is made real in the Eucharist (which that part I have trouble with though not wrong).

When the priest (in the symbol of Christ, if you like), says "this is blood and this is my body" he isn't re-crucifying Jesus. He is bring Jesus (the Eucharist) to the congregation. Jesus has already been crucified and resurrected. So, it is not the body of Jesus (his flesh, limbs, hair), it is his Spirit.

Think about it, though. If it is finished (which I understand) than no one would have Jesus in them. No Christian would have Jesus because he would have left them and said "you're on your own." However, that isn't the case. Mass included.

So, when Jesus is made present in the Eucharist, he is made present as the body of Christ. His spirit is given to everyone in Mass who have repented (the beginning of Mass), lived his life (by communion with brothers and sisters in christ), died in him (this is my body and this is my blood), resurrected in him (when the priest says "this is the body/blood of Christ" when given the Eucharist. Then the Catholic receives the final blessing from god and stays in final prayer and devotion and the Passion has been relieved lived within the Catholic. It's a literal event just as being born again is.

If it was finished, no one would be Christian-Catholic or not. Taking the Eucharist is a constant confirmation of repentance, forgiveness, blessings, and prayer. It's remembering our baptism and reflecting on our confessions/repentance. It is not a symbol-that's like saying Jesus is a symbol. To many Catholics it is literal. I would venture to say, it is literal because of what I just describe.

Though Catholics have various ways of putting it.



Homosexuality (according to scripture) is an action. Gay/Lesbian/Bi/Transgender is not (which is not in scripture hence cant be proven wrong).

People struggle with homosexual tendencies, sure. I never did, thank gosh. I was in an accepting environment where who I am. Which means accepting that I am a person who is spiritually, physically, and mentally attracted to people of the same gender. It has nothing to do with actions. I did nothing when they knew. I did nothing when they accepted me. Just as my being a poet and my being a African American, it is just me. Not many straight people think about this. It's second nature. If people were accepting to everyone, it would be second nature to gay/straight/bi/transgender too. We wouldn't be arguing who we are attracted. It would be normal. We'd (christians) would be more of what people do-straight people included.

So, biblical definitions do not apply to gay/lesbian/bi/transgeder. They apply to All people. Straight people included.

The Bible is not a good resource to determine if gay/lesbian/bi/transgender are GBLT because of what they do. It just says that homosexuality is an action and that anyone straight or not who acts in that manner is a homosexual.

It's like Christians using a fork to eat soap. Unless there is another way to show gay/lesbian/bi/transgender are not who they are and who they identify themselves as, how can you say they are wrong? By what means can you tell them that who they are is wrong?​

This has nothing to do with tendencies, actions, etc. It has to do with the persons themselves.​

When Christ said "it is finished" he meant the sacrifice for humanity. His blood ran that one time, and it was sufficient. His flesh was ripped and torn, that one time, and it was sufficient , for all time. Never again would there ever be a need for his blood or broken body. So neither can be literally reproduced by hocus pocus, because there is no need for it. You are right about the proper attitude toward communion, introspection, repentance, contemplation on the agony of the crucifixion, thankfulness for it, reaffirming faith in public by partaking of the emblems which are representative of the spilled blood and torn flesh. He sent the Holy Spirit for guidance and instruction, in his place on earth, and he is ever present with believers. Now, to the homosexuality issue. If I were an evolutionist, I would tell you that the purpose of sex was the continued survival of the species. I would say that all the pleasure of sex is simply a mechanism to ensure reproduction. Therefore homosexuality would be an evolutionary blind alley. It cannot be a mechanism for reproduction, and if it ever became, somehow, dominant, the species would cease to exist. There are some who speculate that there is an evolutionary purpose for homosexuality in some obscure way, but since no homosexual gene has ever been identified, one wonders how natural selection could have brought it about. I am not an evolutionist, or at least a macro evolutionist. I believe God created humanity in a perfect state, with sex both for pleasure within the confines of marriage and reproduction. Homosexuality was not intended by God. Within the framework of a perfect creation, humanity in it's infancy rebelled and was inherently marred by what God called evil. We pitiful humans have been struggling with it in all it's manifestations ever since. We are all infected with it, we are all out of harmony with God, and redemption from those evil manifestations are why Christ came. I was part of the 60's generation that opened pandora's box, we said and believed "if it feels good do it", "different strokes for different folks", and all the other crazy stuff. We shredded belief in God and totally blurred the lines between right and wrong. My generation, old now, created the secular, atheistic society that exists now. Homosexuality was considered a psychological condition, "not normal" until secular liberalism decided that people were "born as homosexuals" and " that's who they are" although they can't identify the biological reason why they are born that way. So now, for many, homosexuality is normal. I might add that there are many now saying pedophiles "are born that way" and "that's just who they are". A health minister in Germany published a paper saying that sexual experiences for children were not harmful, including toddlers and babies. She also published a guide for those adults who might be involved in these experiences, "if it feels good, just do it". So what does God say about this ? It is perfectly clear, homosexuality, pedophilia, sex with the dead, sex with animals, sex outside of marriage, sadism and many many non sexual acts ( see the 10 commandments, Gospels) are wrong, contrary to Gods will. Habitually practicing them without repenting, without trying to overcome them, makes a person lost, totally out of sync with God. We all have a choice, and we can choose the "do anything I want" lifestyle, whether it involves sex, drugs, alcohol, crime, whatever. We are perfectly free to choose what we choose.

 

[Unveiled Artist]

When Christ said "it is finished" he meant the sacrifice for humanity. His blood ran that one time, and it was sufficient. His flesh was ripped and torn, that one time, and it was sufficient , for all time. Never again would there ever be a need for his blood or broken body. So neither can be literally reproduced by hocus pocus, because there is no need for it. You are right about the proper attitude toward communion, introspection, repentance, contemplation on the agony of the crucifixion, thankfulness for it, reaffirming faith in public by partaking of the emblems which are representative of the spilled blood and torn flesh. He sent the Holy Spirit for guidance and instruction, in his place on earth, and he is ever present with believers. Now, to the homosexuality issue. If I were an evolutionist, I would tell you that the purpose of sex was the continued survival of the species. I would say that all the pleasure of sex is simply a mechanism to ensure reproduction. Therefore homosexuality would be an evolutionary blind alley. It cannot be a mechanism for reproduction, and if it ever became, somehow, dominant, the species would cease to exist. There are some who speculate that there is an evolutionary purpose for homosexuality in some obscure way, but since no homosexual gene has ever been identified, one wonders how natural selection could have brought it about. I am not an evolutionist, or at least a macro evolutionist. I believe God created humanity in a perfect state, with sex both for pleasure within the confines of marriage and reproduction. Homosexuality was not intended by God. Within the framework of a perfect creation, humanity in it's infancy rebelled and was inherently marred by what God called evil. We pitiful humans have been struggling with it in all it's manifestations ever since. We are all infected with it, we are all out of harmony with God, and redemption from those evil manifestations are why Christ came. I was part of the 60's generation that opened pandora's box, we said and believed "if it feels good do it", "different strokes for different folks", and all the other crazy stuff. We shredded belief in God and totally blurred the lines between right and wrong. My generation, old now, created the secular, atheistic society that exists now. Homosexuality was considered a psychological condition, "not normal" until secular liberalism decided that people were "born as homosexuals" and " that's who they are" although they can't identify the biological reason why they are born that way. So now, for many, homosexuality is normal. I might add that there are many now saying pedophiles "are born that way" and "that's just who they are". A health minister in Germany published a paper saying that sexual experiences for children were not harmful, including toddlers and babies. She also published a guide for those adults who might be involved in these experiences, "if it feels good, just do it". So what does God say about this ? It is perfectly clear, homosexuality, pedophilia, sex with the dead, sex with animals, sex outside of marriage, sadism and many many non sexual acts ( see the 10 commandments, Gospels) are wrong, contrary to Gods will. Habitually practicing them without repenting, without trying to overcome them, makes a person lost, totally out of sync with God. We all have a choice, and we can choose the "do anything I want" lifestyle, whether it involves sex, drugs, alcohol, crime, whatever. We are perfectly free to choose what we choose.

I want to read and reply with what you have; but, from experience, can you create another thread in "general religious debates" or "religious debates" to continue this further?

I get your view as so far I know without reading this. You have my explicit permission to quote me. (Everyone has my permission to quote me)

 

[C-Faith]

Catholicism is one branch of Christianity, and it happens to be by far the largest one.

Catholicism had roots in Christianity, but left those roots long ago......

1 Timothy 4: 1-4

 

[C-Faith]

The primacy of the church can actually be found in Acts, which clearly states that Jesus' message and power were passed on to the apostles and who they appointed.

Catholic church can't be found in bible..............

 

[Unveiled Artist]

When Christ said "it is finished" he meant the sacrifice for humanity. His blood ran that one time, and it was sufficient. His flesh was ripped and torn, that one time, and it was sufficient , for all time. Never again would there ever be a need for his blood or broken body. So neither can be literally reproduced by hocus pocus, because there is no need for it. You are right about the proper attitude toward communion, introspection, repentance, contemplation on the agony of the crucifixion, thankfulness for it, reaffirming faith in public by partaking of the emblems which are representative of the spilled blood and torn flesh. He sent the Holy Spirit for guidance and instruction, in his place on earth, and he is ever present with believers. Now, to the homosexuality issue. If I were an evolutionist, I would tell you that the purpose of sex was the continued survival of the species. I would say that all the pleasure of sex is simply a mechanism to ensure reproduction. Therefore homosexuality would be an evolutionary blind alley. It cannot be a mechanism for reproduction, and if it ever became, somehow, dominant, the species would cease to exist. There are some who speculate that there is an evolutionary purpose for homosexuality in some obscure way, but since no homosexual gene has ever been identified, one wonders how natural selection could have brought it about. I am not an evolutionist, or at least a macro evolutionist. I believe God created humanity in a perfect state, with sex both for pleasure within the confines of marriage and reproduction. Homosexuality was not intended by God. Within the framework of a perfect creation, humanity in it's infancy rebelled and was inherently marred by what God called evil. We pitiful humans have been struggling with it in all it's manifestations ever since. We are all infected with it, we are all out of harmony with God, and redemption from those evil manifestations are why Christ came. I was part of the 60's generation that opened pandora's box, we said and believed "if it feels good do it", "different strokes for different folks", and all the other crazy stuff. We shredded belief in God and totally blurred the lines between right and wrong. My generation, old now, created the secular, atheistic society that exists now. Homosexuality was considered a psychological condition, "not normal" until secular liberalism decided that people were "born as homosexuals" and " that's who they are" although they can't identify the biological reason why they are born that way. So now, for many, homosexuality is normal. I might add that there are many now saying pedophiles "are born that way" and "that's just who they are". A health minister in Germany published a paper saying that sexual experiences for children were not harmful, including toddlers and babies. She also published a guide for those adults who might be involved in these experiences, "if it feels good, just do it". So what does God say about this ? It is perfectly clear, homosexuality, pedophilia, sex with the dead, sex with animals, sex outside of marriage, sadism and many many non sexual acts ( see the 10 commandments, Gospels) are wrong, contrary to Gods will. Habitually practicing them without repenting, without trying to overcome them, makes a person lost, totally out of sync with God. We all have a choice, and we can choose the "do anything I want" lifestyle, whether it involves sex, drugs, alcohol, crime, whatever. We are perfectly free to choose what we choose.

Copy and paste your reply here: Catholicism vs Christianity and I will reply.

 

[C-Faith]

Copy and paste your reply here: Catholicism vs Christianity and I will reply.

When Jesus said "it is finished" it means He fulfilled the Old Law (Matthew 5: 17).

 

[Unveiled Artist]

When Jesus said "it is finished" it means He fulfilled the Old Law (Matthew 5: 17).

From experience, I cannot defend my point here. You're making it into a debate by challenging what I say rather than discussing the topic and learning from each other's points of view (interfaith). I will reply, just switch forums.

 

[C-Faith]

From experience, I cannot defend my point here. You're making it into a debate by challenging what I say rather than discussing the topic and learning from each other's points of view (interfaith). I will reply, just switch forums.

The thread is about "Catholicism VS. Christianity"..............