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Featured Catholic radio is full of kooky stuff regarding sexuality.

Discussion in 'General Religious Debates' started by Jonathan Bailey, Jul 18, 2019.

  1. Jonathan Bailey

    Jonathan Bailey Active Member

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    I'm hearing:

    1. homesexuality is evil
    2. the scriptures condemn homosexuality
    3. sex is only for procreation
    4. God does not approve of contraceptives
    5. homosexualty is "false" love
    6. sexual orientation is a "choice"


    I don't personally believe above in any of the above.

    II Samuel reveals a love between King David and Jonathan. King David favored the love for Jonathan over the love of women. There is nothing false about King David's love for Jonathan.

    Homosexuality, bisexuality and hetrosexuality are all natural in spite of the claims of some. Some people are born inclined toward one orientation over another. Many of us are probably more bisexual than we realize. Many "heterosexual" relationships are probably largely forced by some societal code. Pretending to be hetero and living in that mold is living a lie. It's phony. Nobody that I know of fakes homosexuality or bisexuality. Burn that closet down once and for all.

    People often don't feel free to engage in the kind of sexuality that mother nature called them to participate in.

    There is nothing in the Holy Bible that is written that will have me believing that if one man's penis goes into another man's rectum that either of the men are going to forever burn in hell.

    I stand with gay-affirming churches on homsexuality and bisexualty.

    I have no problem with using condoms or having vasectomies to control population. Wise and compassionate people should learn to adopt children in need of homes and stop that egotistical reproduction just for the sake of selfishness. A true Christian parent could love a child not even of his or her own blood just the same.Think of that old couple in Superman with Christopher Reeve and Marlon Brando, 1978. The baby boy comes from outer space with a big bang and they adopt and take him into their arms and their home as a gift from God in their own way of believing.


    Here is where I do agree with Catholic and/or other Christian churches:

    1. no abortion except to save the life of the mother or in case of rape or incest
    2. no cloning, test-tube babies, embryo implants/transplants or otherwise manufacturing "human beings"
    3. I believe new life should be made as God had intended as in "Adam knew his wife Eve and she conceived"

    I don't have a problem with fit-to-parent-and-provide-with-love same-sex couples' adopting or fostering children. Many hetrosexual parents are abusive, unfit, unloving and deadbeats.
     
    #1 Jonathan Bailey, Jul 18, 2019
    Last edited: Jul 18, 2019
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  2. JJ50

    JJ50 Well-Known Member

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    The catholic doctrine is garbage, imo.
     
  3. Amanaki

    Amanaki Living in the moment

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    The bible dont condem those who are homosexual or other forms of sexual orientation, but it condemn the action these people take when having sex with a same-sex person, So it is the act that is a sin, not the person who happens to be homosexual.
    But from a biblical standpoint it only speak about Christians/Catholics not for example atheists
     
  4. Musing Bassist

    Musing Bassist Well-Known Member

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    There's nothing kooky about Catholic sexual ethics. Ethics that were more or less universally accepted by all Christians until the 1930's. This universally accepted ethic can be boiled down to this:

    That the only legitimate place for sex is within the marital bond between a man and a woman. The purpose of sexual union is both and inseparably unitive and procreative. Any and all deviations from this constitutes grave sin.

    You don't have to like it, but your personal opinions are frankly not a factor. Nor are tortured, agenda driven readings of the Scripture designed to avoid its face value condemnations of sexual perversion. Especially in regards to homosexuality.
     
    #4 Musing Bassist, Jul 18, 2019
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  5. JJ50

    JJ50 Well-Known Member

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    This is nothing wrong with gay sex. That guy, Jesus, never condemned it, but then he could have been gay, having a specific disciple whom he loved.
     
  6. Amanaki

    Amanaki Living in the moment

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    Well it is written in the bible that it is a sin, so for a Christian or catholic if hey are to follow the bible they should not take part in sexual act with same sex. But as i said for atheists it does not matter if they do or dont.

    Jesus did see the good in the disciple you speak about because he saw good in him, That does not mean he was gay, it only means they understood each other on a spiritual level.
     
  7. Jonathan Bailey

    Jonathan Bailey Active Member

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    I don't believe that and neither do gay-affirming churches.

    The Bible, Christianity and Homosexuality | GayChurch.org

    SCRIPTURE STUDY CONCLUSION
    As we see, the Bible really does not fully address the topic of homosexuality. Jesus never talked about it. The prophets never talked about it. In Sodom homosexual activity is mentioned within the context of rape (raping angels nonetheless), and in Romans 1:24-27 we find it mentioned within the context of idolatry (Baal worship) involving lust and dishonorable passions. 1 Corinthians 6:9 and 1 Timothy 1:10 talk about homosexual activity in the context of prostitution and possibly pederasty. Nowhere does the Bible talk about a loving and committed homosexual relationship.* The only thing the authors of the Bible knew about homosexuality was that which they saw expressed in the pagan worship of Baal, the temple prostitution, et cetera. To use the Bible to condemn homosexuality, as we see, involves a projection of ones own bias and a stretching of the Biblical text beyond that of which the scriptures speak. Historically, however, the Bible has been taken out of context and twisted to oppress almost every minority one could imagine including women, African Americans, children, slaves, Jews, and the list goes on. Do we truly understand the greatest commandments? “You shall love the Lord your God with all your heart, and with all your soul, and with all your mind. This is the great and first commandment. And a second is like it, You shall love your neighbor as yourself. On these two commandments depend all the law and the prophets.” (RSV Mat. 22:36-40)

    *What about second Samuel?

    David loved Jonathan more than women. (II Samuel 1:26) - Good Hope MCC, Cape Town, South Africa


    “Saul and Jonathan, beloved and lovely!
    In life and in death they were not divided;
    they were swifter than eagles,
    they were stronger than lions.
    How the mighty have fallen in the midst of battle!
    Jonathan lies slain upon your high places.
    I am distressed for you my brother Jonathan;
    Greatly beloved were you to me;
    your love to me was wonderful, passing the love of women.”


    (2 Samuel 1:23, 26-27, emphasis added)

    Here it is in black and white. David states the love he shared with Jonathan was greater than what he had experienced with women. Have you ever heard a heterosexual man say he loved his male friend more than his wife? This goes well beyond deep friendship between two heterosexual men.

    In this story, we have a direct biblical answer to our question: Can two people of the same sex live in a loving, committed relationship with God’s favor? The answer is “yes,” because Jonathan and David did, and the Bible celebrates their relationship.
     
    #7 Jonathan Bailey, Jul 18, 2019
    Last edited: Jul 18, 2019
  8. Amanaki

    Amanaki Living in the moment

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    The two cities of Sodoma and Gomora were destroyed because of the homosexual acts that was taking place there over many years, and if the bible is correct they did get warnings many times before they actually were destroyed.
    I am aware of that the bible has been translated differently from the time it first was written down until today. But the main teaching is still there.
     
  9. Musing Bassist

    Musing Bassist Well-Known Member

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    Never underestimate the ability of people to construct elaborate arguments on why the Bible isn't saying what it's obviously saying.
     
  10. JJ50

    JJ50 Well-Known Member

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    You wish that to be true.:D
     
  11. Amanaki

    Amanaki Living in the moment

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    Leviticus 18:22
    "Do not practice homosexuality, having sex with another man as with a woman. It is a detestable sin." (NLT)
    1 Corinthians 6:9-11
    Don't you realize that those who do wrong will not inherit the Kingdom of God? Don't fool yourselves. Those who indulge in sexual sin, or who worship idols, or commit adultery, or are male prostitutes, or practice homosexuality, or are thieves, or greedy people, or drunkards, or are abusive or cheat people --none of these will inherit the Kingdom of God. Some of you were once like that. But you were cleansed; you were made holy; you were made right with God by calling on the name of the Lord Jesus Christ and by the Spirit of our God. (NLT)

    I think God was/is very clear of what is the way in to heaven or what will make someone not able to reach his kingdom
     
  12. Skwim

    Skwim Veteran Member

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    Yeah, I've always thought that sex between marriage partners past the age of procreation, or where one or both are infertile/sterile, or even while the wife is pregnant was a sure way to send oneself to Hell.

    .
     
  13. Amanaki

    Amanaki Living in the moment

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    W
    What Gay people does is none of my business and I could not care less, as long they dont hit on me they can do what they want, but this tread is about what the Christian teaching says so that is what i answer on
     
  14. Musing Bassist

    Musing Bassist Well-Known Member

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    The act must be open to procreation, that is, potentially procreative in principle. A completed act of coitus is always fertile in principle, regardless if the couple in question are incidentally infertile. Sexual acts that are rendered infertile by artificial means (contraception) or are intrinsically infertile by nature (sodomy) are always sinful even when engaged in by a married couple.

    The Catholic position isn't that every and all sexual acts must always result in conception. It is rather that you cannot deliberately separate the unitive and proactive.
     
  15. Skwim

    Skwim Veteran Member

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    Double talk never did impress me. It still doesn't.

    .
     
  16. Musing Bassist

    Musing Bassist Well-Known Member

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    If you sincerely (I doubt) cannot see the distinction between the incidental and the deliberate, then perhaps there's an issue of intellect and or comprehension on your part.

    Otherwise, what impresses you is an irrelevance. Nor do I find post after post ideological snark and your tiresome fixation on sex impressive.
     
    #16 Musing Bassist, Jul 18, 2019
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  17. Jonathan Bailey

    Jonathan Bailey Active Member

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    These are just new phony "translations" of the original King James Version. Somebody put newfangled words in the "bible's" mouth.
     
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  18. Jonathan Bailey

    Jonathan Bailey Active Member

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    I shall believe as I wish. I still take the side of the gay-affirming churches. I get tired of hearing Catholic radio gay-bashing day after day in my kitchen while cooking or doing dishes. Catholic radio seems so fixated on ex talk. How impressive and "refreshingly-non tiresome" is that? Trying to get me to side with the gay-bashers is about as productive as beating a dead horse. Lately, I've been turning off my radio more and more and putting hunting and gun videos on my TV as well as CNN and Fox News. I hate CNN's gun-rights-bashing as well.

    I wish the rainbow churches would have their own pro-gay radio programs.

    Nobody here wants to comment on what I said about II Samuel. The hypocrites censor unfavorable parts of the Good Book as always. The same hypocrites will eat shrimp cocktails and crab salad ignoring the OT laws against shellfish consumption. I believe Paul says in the NT that we are dead to the old law but alive in the Spirit under the new law of love.
     
    #18 Jonathan Bailey, Jul 18, 2019
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  19. Amanaki

    Amanaki Living in the moment

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    If king James write homosexuality is ok by God, his translation is wrong
     
  20. Amanaki

    Amanaki Living in the moment

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    From king James translation of bible.

    Leviticus 18:22 - Thou shalt not lie with mankind, as with womankind: it [is] abomination.

    1 Corinthians 6:9-11 - Know ye not that the unrighteous shall not inherit the kingdom of God? Be not deceived: neither fornicators, nor idolaters, nor adulterers, nor effeminate, nor abusers of themselves with mankind, (Read More...)

    Leviticus 20:13 - If a man also lie with mankind, as he lieth with a woman, both of them have committed an abomination: they shall surely be put to death; their blood [shall be] upon them.

    Romans 1:26-28 - For this cause God gave them up unto vile affections: for even their women did change the natural use into that which is against nature: (Read More...)

    1 Timothy 1:10 - For whoremongers, for them that defile themselves with mankind, for menstealers, for liars, for perjured persons, and if there be any other thing that is contrary to sound doctrine;

    Mark 10:6-9 - But from the beginning of the creation God made them male and female. (Read More...)
     
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