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Featured Catholic Abuse Scandal was Primarily Homosexual

Discussion in 'Religious Debates' started by KW, Jun 27, 2022.

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  1. 9-10ths_Penguin

    9-10ths_Penguin 1/10 Subway Stalinist
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    I don't know about that, but it's certainly safer since the Catholic Church was forced to close down its slave workhouses and cultural genocide facilities.
     
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  2. Viker

    Viker Spirit in Black

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    Let's just start with the source and then work out way through their skewed conclusion.
     
  3. Revoltingest

    Revoltingest Abnormal before it was fashionable
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    BTW, I'm not convinced that homosexuality was as
    big a component as he thinks. It could very well be
    that sex with boys wasn't about a homosexual
    orientation, but just a way to have sex & human
    contact of any kind. In such a case, it would be
    a perversion, not homosexuality.
     
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  4. firedragon

    firedragon Veteran Member

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    That's just correspondence data. To make this kind of assumption based on the data is either madness or just pure dishonesty.
     
  5. KW

    KW Well-Known Member

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    That's the most thorough analysis of the abuse crisis available.

    There is nothing dishonest about it.
     
  6. Viker

    Viker Spirit in Black

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    Prison sex. The Catholic hierarchy is male. The preferred acolytes are male. Authority=dominance. Throw in sexual repression and you have a creepy Tool video playing out in the real world.
     
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  7. Revoltingest

    Revoltingest Abnormal before it was fashionable
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    You have a way with words.
     
  8. exchemist

    exchemist Veteran Member

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    Aha. This seems to be a far-right publicity organisation that the Catholic church has disavowed: Church Militant (website) - Wikipedia. I quote:

    "St. Michael's Media is a conservative Catholic organization founded by Michael Voris which operates as a lay apostolate and news website in Michigan under the officially-registered assumed name of Church Militant[2] via the website ChurchMilitant.com. It is a Michigan 501(c)4 corporation.[3] It was known as Real Catholic TV until 2012, when the Archdiocese of Detroit notified Michael Voris and Real Catholic TV that "it does not regard them as being authorized to use the word 'Catholic' to identify or promote their public activities".[4] Voris responded by changing the name to Church Militant."

    Regarding the claim you are reporting, I see that the Grand Jury report on abuse in Pennsylvania records some 1000 cases of child sexual abuse by Catholic priests, so if 80% were against boys - something that I cannot at this point corroborate - that leaves 200 cases against girls as well. Hardly a trivial number. All were clearly minors, or they would not be within the scope of the report.

    It comes to something when an attempt is made to downplay this abuse on the grounds that the minors were mainly post-pubescent.

    Regarding the reduction in abuse cases in the last 20 years I see that the first explosive revelations about abuse in the US church took place in 2002 in Boston, exactly 20 years ago. It is to be expected that moves to deal with this scourge would have been taken in the wake of the revelations. Certainly in our diocese in London, there has been for some years now a formal "safeguarding" system in place, at all the churches and church schools.

    The issue here is not whether the sexual inclinations of the priests were technically homosexual, heterosexual or paedophile - that is a red herring, frankly. It is that they abused the position of trust and authority vested in them as priests, to carry out sex crimes on an industrial scale, and that this was then covered up, for decades, by the hierarchy.
     
    #28 exchemist, Jun 27, 2022
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  9. KW

    KW Well-Known Member

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    Typical leftist technique.

    Deal with the facts. You can dispute the conclusion(not rationally) but the facts are no disputed.
     
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  10. Fool

    Fool ALL in all
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    a relationship difference of 5+ years is considered grooming especially between what is considered a psychologically mature adult and an adolescent.

    the relationship is considered unhealthy because the adult is grooming the uninformed adolescent, or psychologically/mentally immature person for something it doesn't quite understand.


    i noticed you didn't mention the other abuses; which you probably call heterosexual. people in places of power and authority, shouldn't be having intimate relationships with subordinates of any kind.
     
    #30 Fool, Jun 27, 2022
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  11. firedragon

    firedragon Veteran Member

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    You misunderstand data, analysis and assumptions. If you read my post, I am speaking about the assumptions. It's the most absurd assumption in honest research I have ever seen.
     
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  12. Bathos Logos

    Bathos Logos Active Member

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    You do know what post-pubescent means, right? It just means "after puberty." As in - there are still plenty of years in there before the age of legal consent in many places. So you can't make the generalization that all these boys were of legal age to be fooling around with. And so, it still remains a problem of these clergy having targeted youth. Underage youth. So you take away the term "pedophile", lets say, assuming all the boys were 13. So what? That makes it less of a problem? Or that makes "homosexuality" as the root cause in your estimation? At the end of the day, these were men willing to break multiple laws to do what they did. Their being homosexual does not represent a law being broken. You get that, right? Please tell me you get that.
     
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  13. exchemist

    exchemist Veteran Member

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    You have presented no facts, though. I await a reference from a reputable source, which "Church Militant" is not, to substantiate the facts you are relying on. Provide such a source of fact, and I will be happy to deal with it.

    You can't just present a page from the National Enquirer and then demand I "deal with the facts".
     
    #32 exchemist, Jun 27, 2022
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  14. Revoltingest

    Revoltingest Abnormal before it was fashionable
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  15. KW

    KW Well-Known Member

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    It was in the article I linked. You are behind.
     
  16. Revoltingest

    Revoltingest Abnormal before it was fashionable
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    Calm down.
    I posted it (again) because some described it without using the term.
     
  17. pearl

    pearl Well-Known Member

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  18. Viker

    Viker Spirit in Black

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  19. Left Coast

    Left Coast The Fabulous
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    Also bear in the mind that until recent years, altar servers were all boys, girls were not allowed. And they are most frequently in close proximity with priests, helping prep for Mass. So it's a question of availability of victims as well. But the far right will always ignore the full picture if it gives them an opportunity to bash gay people.
     
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  20. exchemist

    exchemist Veteran Member

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    In fact, interestingly, this report specifically contradicts the claim in the OP. I quote the relevant section of the summary:

    Individual, Psychological Factors

    • Less than 5 percent of the priests with allegations of abuse exhibited behavior consistent with a diagnosis of pedophilia (a psychiatric disorder that is character- ized by recurrent fantasies, urges, and behaviors about prepubescent children). Thus, it is inaccurate to refer to abusers as “pedophile priests.”

    • Priests with allegations of sexually abusing minors are not significantly more likely than other priests to have personality or mood disorders.

    • Sexual behavior in violation of the commitment to celibacy was reported by 80 percent of the priests who participated in residential psychological treatment, but most sexual behavior was with adults.

    • The majority of priests who were given residential treatment following an allegation of sexual abuse of a minor also reported sexual behavior with adult partners.

    • Those priests who had sexual relationships either before seminary or while in seminary were more likely to also have sexual relationships after ordination, but those relationships were most likely to be with adults. They were not significantly more likely to abuse minors.

    • Priests who had same-sex sexual experiences either before seminary or in seminary were more likely to have sexual behavior after ordination, but this behavior was most likely with adults. These men were not significantly more likely to abuse minors.
    • Priests who were sexually abused as minors themselves were more likely to abuse minors than those without a history of abuse.
    • Priests who lacked close social bonds, and those whose family spoke negatively or not at all about sex, were more likely to sexually abuse minors than those who had a history of close social bonds and positive discus- sions about sexual behavior. In general, priests from the ordination cohorts of the 1940s and 1950s showed evidence of difficulty with intimacy.

      So, as some of us suspected, this Church Militant claim seems to have been a piece of made up disinformation in furtherance of an anti-homosexual agenda - and to lay a few red herrings across the path.
     
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  21. KW

    KW Well-Known Member

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    This is not about bashing gay people. It's about homosexuals abusing others.
     
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