Cashless Societies

[Thief]

oh.....for clarity
cash in hand IS freedom

 

[MNoBody]

also try this out... go to a dealership and present them with a bag of cash and watch them make a deal right now
sure they like the credit layaway plans, that's their bread and butter.... but the cash deals are the icing on the cake and that should be common knowledge by now for anyone who has lived a while in north america
look at the thriving cash and barter market economy in russia
the people openly are in contempt of the gov't scrip system and prefer dollars....wonder why
and you cannot be frozen out of existence if you have fungible assets in hand
electronic currency puts every individual at the mercy of some star chamber type overseer who can freeze you for no just reason, at the stroke of a key.
how does that instill confidence or faith in that system ?

 

[Thief]

just this morning I was watching a YouTube about the Fed printing too much money

perhaps a thread of it's own is worthwhile
if too much money is printed
Hyper inflation follows

your dollar is reduced
and so too your freedom

 

[MNoBody]

just this morning I was watching a YouTube about the Fed printing too much money

perhaps a thread of it's own is worthwhile
if too much money is printed
Hyper inflation follows

your dollar is reduced
and so too your freedom

watered down cash.....saw one of those hyperinflated reichmarks from the early 20th century...not sure of the date, but it was worth millions of marks on the face of it, but they only printed one side to save printing costs....good grief man
one would need a thick sheaf of them a huge roll to settle the coffee tab

but like in India recently, they devalued the existing currency so it was worthless, thus all the cash note hoarders with mattresses stuffed with their savings found it was worthless, traded at pennies on the dollar [so to speak] currency resets are just great [not]

 

[9-10ths_Penguin]

as a former merchant i had to pay fees to get paid through E-means....
not so with fungible assets or legal tender,

Your bank wouldn't charge you a fee to deposit or withdraw cash on a business account? Surprising.

And the costs with cash aren't just about bank transaction fees. There's also costs due to employee theft (or just innocently making mistakes when making change) as well as the cost of security measures to guard against theft. There's also the time and effort involved in taking cash to the bank, and securely storing it until you do.

A retail business doesn't have to get that large before you need a cash room and to hire an armored car service. At that point, the expense of cash is ridiculous.

(Of course, these costs are largely driven by what insurers require to insure a business. If your business was small enough or under-the-table enough, maybe you didn't see the need to insure yourself)

which by the way has printed on it that it is good for settling debts, the basis of legal tender......it covers the bill....zeros out he account..settled closed...

There's no requirement in the US - at least at the federal level - for businesses to accept cash in payment for retail goods.

Apparently, if you have a debt with someone, your creditor is obliged to accept cash in payment, but a business doesn't have to agree to extend you credit to buy something. If they have a product you want to buy, you only have cash, and they don't want to take cash for it, they don't have to sell it to you unless your state law requires it.

There is, however, no Federal statute mandating that a private business, a person, or an organization must accept currency or coins as payment for goods or services. Private businesses are free to develop their own policies on whether to accept cash unless there is a state law which says otherwise.

The Fed - Is it legal for a business in the United States to refuse cash as a form of payment?

right now,no third party, no extra time or processing step....and no additional fees for using that costly mechanism to settle a simple debt.... and no inadequate connection mechanism prone to errors and failures.
[edit- probably why they say cash is king]

Cash also has costs and also has its failures.

 

[MNoBody]

of course cash is a problematic form of exchange...given the ownership of it and all the attachments liens encumbrances obligations associated
we were talking about something else there

 

[9-10ths_Penguin]

@MNoBody

An example of the costs and risks associated with cash:

Before stores regularly took debit cards, I worked in retail at a big department store.

At the end of every day, one of the salespeople would have the job of bringing the day's cash and receipts from each till down to the cash room. One pouch per cash register.

One day, one of the salespeople - not me, luckily - brought the cash down, but a pouch was missing. 4 pouches left the department but only 3 made it to the cash room.

They never really figured out whether it was theft or if he just dropped it, but either way, several thousand dollars disappeared. You don't get these sorts of problems if you don't use cash.

 

[MNoBody]

@MNoBody

An example of the costs and risks associated with cash:

Before stores regularly took debit cards, I worked in retail at a big department store.

At the end of every day, one of the salespeople would have the job of bringing the day's cash and receipts from each till down to the cash room. One pouch per cash register.

One day, one of the salespeople - not me, luckily - brought the cash down, but a pouch was missing. 4 pouches left the department but only 3 made it to the cash room.

They never really figured out whether it was theft or if he just dropped it, but either way, several thousand dollars disappeared. You don't get these sorts of problems if you don't use cash.

well, let's hope that optimism covers you when the phone lines aren't working, yet again
which is only one aspect of the potential issues involved here, not being addressed.
but whatever, i am not here to argue about things or be talked down to....is this a debate or a place seeking answers?

 

[Thief]

and luck has some sway to it

you pump gas
you have a debit card to pay for it
but as you do so.....the machine faults and won't work

no cash in pocket?

ooops

same thing in grocery stores
if the slide won't work
you need your money in hand

 

[Thief]

when your info is stolen
your bank might freeze your account to stop a run on it

I've had that happen
then.....when attempting to draw cash for my pocket
I find I cannot

good thing I was at an atm
not the grocery line or the gas pump

 

[Heyo]

Your bank wouldn't charge you a fee to deposit or withdraw cash on a business account? Surprising.

And the costs with cash aren't just about bank transaction fees. There's also costs due to employee theft (or just innocently making mistakes when making change) as well as the cost of security measures to guard against theft. There's also the time and effort involved in taking cash to the bank, and securely storing it until you do.

A retail business doesn't have to get that large before you need a cash room and to hire an armored car service. At that point, the expense of cash is ridiculous.

(Of course, these costs are largely driven by what insurers require to insure a business. If your business was small enough or under-the-table enough, maybe you didn't see the need to insure yourself)


There's no requirement in the US - at least at the federal level - for businesses to accept cash in payment for retail goods.

Apparently, if you have a debt with someone, your creditor is obliged to accept cash in payment, but a business doesn't have to agree to extend you credit to buy something. If they have a product you want to buy, you only have cash, and they don't want to take cash for it, they don't have to sell it to you unless your state law requires it.



The Fed - Is it legal for a business in the United States to refuse cash as a form of payment?


Cash also has costs and also has its failures.

Of course e-payment is convenient. If it wasn't, people wouldn't use it. And as long as the costs to handle cash are higher than the costs of e-payment it makes commercial sense.
The problem comes when people lose the ability to fall back on cash when e-payment gets more expensive. When cash is no longer an option, there is nothing to stop the banks from extracting ridiculous fees.

 

[Notanumber]

Of course e-payment is convenient. If it wasn't, people wouldn't use it. And as long as the costs to handle cash are higher than the costs of e-payment it makes commercial sense.
The problem comes when people lose the ability to fall back on cash when e-payment gets more expensive. When cash is no longer an option, there is nothing to stop the banks from extracting ridiculous fees.

You are right. China was convenient and look what happened there.

 

[9-10ths_Penguin]

The problem comes when people lose the ability to fall back on cash when e-payment gets more expensive. When cash is no longer an option, there is nothing to stop the banks from extracting ridiculous fees.

... nothing besides market forces, you mean. Banks aren't monopolies.

 

[Heyo]

... nothing besides market forces, you mean. Banks aren't monopolies.

True, but banks are also low competition (I wouldn't say they are oligopolies but the entry threshold is high and if one comes up with a method to extract more money the others usually follow).

 

[Notanumber]

It looks like the CCP virus is taking us another step closer to a cashless society.

Most shops in the UK are now refusing or at least very reluctant to take cash payments.

Interest rates are already close to zero and would become fully negative if the cash alternative was no longer an option.

 

[Notanumber]

Retailers do not like cash because it is not as convenient and is more costly than electronic payments.

In the UK, you will be lucky to find a retailer that will currently accept cash because of the CCP virus.

If we ever recover from this pandemic those retailers, will have got used to being cashless and will be reluctant to change back to old system.

You can’t use cash if you buy on line so cash will become useless.

Once everyone is forced into the digital system, you will have big brother watching you and you could be forced to pay the bank interest on your savings.

 

[Thief]

just caught eye of a report......
many places are to reopen while not accepting cash

and laws are being passed to stop that trend

seems more the 6% of America does NOT have bank accounts
the term is ...unbanked

about 14million people

 

[Notanumber]

just caught eye of a report......
many places are to reopen while not accepting cash

and laws are being passed to stop that trend

seems more the 6% of America does NOT have bank accounts
the term is ...unbanked

about 14million people

The traveller community in the UK deals in cash and they are a protected minority.

Hopefully, this will be enough to prevent us from being forced to go cashless.

If we did go cashless, it would open the door for this - The Bank of England admitted for the first time it's considering negative interest rates, but analysts don't believe it will follow through | Markets Insider

 

[Heyo]

I could imagine to live in a moneyless society but the moment our government stops printing and minting money, I start to print my own.

@Quagmire : The above wasn't meant to be funny. See:
Local currency - Wikipedia