1. Welcome to Religious Forums, a friendly forum to discuss all religions in a friendly surrounding.

    Your voice is missing! You will need to register to get access to the following site features:
    • Reply to discussions and create your own threads.
    • Our modern chat room. No add-ons or extensions required, just login and start chatting!
    • Access to private conversations with other members.

    We hope to see you as a part of our community soon!

Cartoons Cause Death Among Muslims

Discussion in 'General Religious Debates' started by dan, Feb 17, 2006.

  1. dan

    dan Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Jun 15, 2004
    Messages:
    1,464
    Ratings:
    +96
    What are your feelings on the recent riots and protests, as well as the responsibility of cartoonists when handling religious issues? Over twelve people have died so far in protests.

    I do an editorial cartoon for the BYU newspaper and am interested in people's opinions. There are several bounties being offered for the heads of the cartoonists, including 100 kilograms of gold, $1,000,000 and a car. The cartoonists are living under 24 hour police surveillance right now and two European countries have just passed laws making blasphemy of any kind illegal. In case you're not keenly aware of the issue, here's some info:

    http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/world/europe/4669360.stm

    http://cagle.com/news/blog/

    http://www.islam-online.net/English/News/2006-02/15/article04.shtml

    http://www.islamonline.net/English/Views/2006/02/article03.shtml

    http://www.islamonline.net/servlet/Satellite?cid=1138109428606&pagename=IslamOnline-English-Ask_Scholar%2FFatwaE%2FFatwaEAskTheScholar
     
  2. Smoke

    Smoke Done here.

    Joined:
    Aug 30, 2005
    Messages:
    19,902
    Ratings:
    +3,255
    Cartoons don't kill people; religious fanatics kill people.
     
    • Like Like x 3
  3. dawny0826

    dawny0826 Mother Heathen

    Joined:
    Dec 22, 2005
    Messages:
    14,083
    Ratings:
    +2,195
    Religion:
    Non-Denominational Christian
    You're right.
     
  4. dan

    dan Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Jun 15, 2004
    Messages:
    1,464
    Ratings:
    +96
    Actually the only people who intentionally killed anyone in this issue is a security guard in an American bank in Pakistan. It's remarkably easy to boil this down to blaming religious fanaticism, but look at the actual facts, not just an anecdotal quip that you feel encapsulates the struggles of millions of people over thousands of years. I'd like to hear some actual thoughts.
     
  5. Judgement Day

    Judgement Day Active Member

    Joined:
    Dec 31, 2005
    Messages:
    420
    Ratings:
    +55
    Another thread :faint:?
     
  6. dan

    dan Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Jun 15, 2004
    Messages:
    1,464
    Ratings:
    +96
    My thread has a lot more information than any of the others.
     
  7. Ody

    Ody Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Jan 17, 2006
    Messages:
    4,840
    Ratings:
    +279
    It is a major problem, fanatacism in the middle east.
     
  8. Smoke

    Smoke Done here.

    Joined:
    Aug 30, 2005
    Messages:
    19,902
    Ratings:
    +3,255
    You mean something like, "Cartoons Cause Death Among Muslims"? :biglaugh:

    Religious fundamentalism really is a dangerous and destructive force, not just Muslim fanaticism, but all religious fundamentalism. And I'd expect anybody involved in any kind of newspaper to have figured that out.
     
  9. YmirGF

    YmirGF Bodhisattva

    Joined:
    Nov 21, 2005
    Messages:
    29,091
    Ratings:
    +14,880
    Religion:
    Beyond the Light
    It's not just Muhammad cartoons making the Middle East angry - the Iranian embassy in Berlin demanded an apology for a cartoon in a German newspaper that insulted the Iranian football (soccer) team. To quote from iransportsnews.com:


    In a statement addressed to chief editor of the daily Der Tagesspiegel, the embassy demanded a "written apology and measures aimed at rectifying this immoral act". The communiqué added the offensive caricature had caused "outrage among the Iranian people".



    This subject is not going to go away. The whole thing is going to get crazier and crazier. What disturbs me is how the ignorant, often illiterate, masses are being played like a fiddle. It might prove interesting to survey the attendees of these violent protests to see how many could even read their Holy Qu'ran.​
     
    • Like Like x 2
  10. sojourner

    sojourner Annoyingly Progressive Since 2006

    Joined:
    Jan 18, 2006
    Messages:
    35,709
    Ratings:
    +4,996
    Religion:
    Christian/Shamanic
    I think it's easy for people to justify fanaticism, caustic remarks, judgmentalism, or any of a number of other atrocities (like bombing, war and terrorism) on the basis of religion. Jimmy Swaggert was excused because he was religious. For years, Catholic priests were excused, because they were religious. Rioting Muslims are excused, because they're rioting for a religious cause. People do these things and, rather than hold them accountable, we tend to say, "Oh, they're religious...it must be OK somehow."

    I have to ask, due to my own ignorance...doesn't Mohammed teach the same thing? Doesn't the word "Islam" mean something akin to "peace?"
     
  11. wmam

    wmam Active Member

    Joined:
    Oct 17, 2005
    Messages:
    955
    Ratings:
    +35
    Who were the 12 that got killed? Were they themselves rioters or innocent by-standers?
     
  12. Jayhawker Soule

    Jayhawker Soule <yawn> ignore </yawn>
    Premium Member

    Joined:
    May 15, 2004
    Messages:
    39,586
    Ratings:
    +13,483
    Religion:
    Judaism
    Do you have performance anxiety? That was the most childish retort I've heard in some time.
     
  13. dan

    dan Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Jun 15, 2004
    Messages:
    1,464
    Ratings:
    +96
    So what?
     
  14. Darkdale

    Darkdale World Leader Pretend

    Joined:
    Sep 5, 2005
    Messages:
    3,216
    Ratings:
    +413
    :biglaugh: I like this thread.
     
  15. Karl R

    Karl R Active Member

    Joined:
    Feb 14, 2006
    Messages:
    716
    Ratings:
    +268
    I'm likely to offend a lot of people on both sides of the issue with my opinions ... but I've never been shy about offending people before.


    This problem started with racism and discrimination. Most people feel that racism and discrimination are wrong, but we seem to be a lot more willing to ignore racism when it's happening to muslims (probably out of fear).

    Due to this racism, discrimination and double standard, there has been a lot of resentment building up for years in the European muslim communities. The cartoon just provided the flashpoint.


    The cartoonists aren't some kind of "free speech" heroes. They're racists who deliberately set out to incite the muslim population. If I go into a bar and insult an angry drunk, he might take the first swing, but I started the fight with my mouth.

    These cartoonists (and the publishers) are pondscum. Even though they can't be held legally responsible, they share the moral blame for the deaths that have occurred.


    Regardless, the violent response that some muslims have engaged in is wrong.

    I was reading a post in the Islam forums that contained a message from Amr Khaled. In it, he relates how Mohammad was merciful, even to those who persecuted him, stoned him, and injured him. When others sought to smite his enemies, he instructed them to be merciful and prayed to Allah (God) to forgive them.

    Extrapolating from this behavior, what do you believe Mohammad's reaction would be if someone slandered him? I believe he would react the same way. I think Mohammad would counsel mercy on the offenders and pray that they find guidance to Allah (God).

    The short form of Amr Khaled's message to the West (if I understood it correctly) was: Mohammad is a man who deserves nothing but respect from everyone. The evidence he offered was quite convincing. (It completely convinced me, at least.)

    My conclusions were a bit different, however. Why bother reacting to some Danish clowns who are attempting to slander such a great man? Mohammad is a great man. His greatness cannot be diminished, no matter how hard they try.

    In addition, it's entirely possible that this insult to Mohammad is offensive to Allah (God). If that's true, there's no way I would touch the cartoonists. God (Allah) is completely capable of dealing with anyone who offends him, and I wouldn't want to accidentally spoil his plans.

    Finally, this entire controversy reminds me of an old saying: "The dogs may bark, but the caravan keeps moving." The caravan's business is too important to be interrupted by a few barking dogs.

    But in this case, the caravan hasn't kept moving. Instead, it has come to a halt in order to deal with a few barking dogs.
     
    • Like Like x 3
  16. Jayhawker Soule

    Jayhawker Soule <yawn> ignore </yawn>
    Premium Member

    Joined:
    May 15, 2004
    Messages:
    39,586
    Ratings:
    +13,483
    Religion:
    Judaism
    Perhaps, and perhaps not. Perhaps you are pond scum, and perhaps not - but my guess is that you know absolutely nothing about the cartoonists yet refuse to let that ignorance get in the way of tiresome liberal apologetics.
     
  17. Karl R

    Karl R Active Member

    Joined:
    Feb 14, 2006
    Messages:
    716
    Ratings:
    +268
    Quite frequently I am. I'm not certain how that disproves my previous statements.

    I probably haven't done my homework sufficiently to meet dan's criteria, but I did do it sufficiently to run across dan's post.

    But I didn't form my initial impression off dan's post. I formed it off personal experience. When I accidentally insult someone, I immediately apologize profusely for the unintentional insult. If I start implying that it's their fault that they felt insulted, it's quite likely that I intended to insult them. The cartoonists are reacting the same way I do when I intentionally insult someone.

    I may be pondscum ... but I'm fairly perceptive pondscum.
     
    • Like Like x 1
  18. gnostic

    gnostic The Lost One

    Joined:
    Jan 12, 2006
    Messages:
    17,263
    Ratings:
    +4,912
    Religion:
    Pi π
    Are prophet now The God?

    I just think it is plain stupid that people would equate insult to any prophet with blasphemy.

    I am afraid that people in Islam have elevated a human to godhood, because that the only way you can link cartoon with blasphemy. In essence, Muslims are treating their prophet like their idol, and therefore idol-worhipping.

    I have no sympathy for any rioter's death, particularly if they kill or injure people or destroy properties.
     
    • Like Like x 1
  19. wmam

    wmam Active Member

    Joined:
    Oct 17, 2005
    Messages:
    955
    Ratings:
    +35
    I'm beginning to like you allot.:highfive:
     
  20. wmam

    wmam Active Member

    Joined:
    Oct 17, 2005
    Messages:
    955
    Ratings:
    +35
    I suppose no one knows who died? Again I ask if anyone knows if it where rioters or innocent by-standers?
     
Loading...