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Cartoons Cause Death Among Muslims

dan

Well-Known Member
What are your feelings on the recent riots and protests, as well as the responsibility of cartoonists when handling religious issues? Over twelve people have died so far in protests.

I do an editorial cartoon for the BYU newspaper and am interested in people's opinions. There are several bounties being offered for the heads of the cartoonists, including 100 kilograms of gold, $1,000,000 and a car. The cartoonists are living under 24 hour police surveillance right now and two European countries have just passed laws making blasphemy of any kind illegal. In case you're not keenly aware of the issue, here's some info:

http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/world/europe/4669360.stm

http://cagle.com/news/blog/

http://www.islam-online.net/English/News/2006-02/15/article04.shtml

http://www.islamonline.net/English/Views/2006/02/article03.shtml

http://www.islamonline.net/servlet/Satellite?cid=1138109428606&pagename=IslamOnline-English-Ask_Scholar%2FFatwaE%2FFatwaEAskTheScholar
 

dan

Well-Known Member
MidnightBlue said:
Cartoons don't kill people; religious fanatics kill people.
Actually the only people who intentionally killed anyone in this issue is a security guard in an American bank in Pakistan. It's remarkably easy to boil this down to blaming religious fanaticism, but look at the actual facts, not just an anecdotal quip that you feel encapsulates the struggles of millions of people over thousands of years. I'd like to hear some actual thoughts.
 

Smoke

Done here.
dan said:
Actually the only people who intentionally killed anyone in this issue is a security guard in an American bank in Pakistan. It's remarkably easy to boil this down to blaming religious fanaticism, but look at the actual facts, not just an anecdotal quip that you feel encapsulates the struggles of millions of people over thousands of years.
You mean something like, "Cartoons Cause Death Among Muslims"? :biglaugh:

Religious fundamentalism really is a dangerous and destructive force, not just Muslim fanaticism, but all religious fundamentalism. And I'd expect anybody involved in any kind of newspaper to have figured that out.
 

YmirGF

Bodhisattva in Recovery
It's not just Muhammad cartoons making the Middle East angry - the Iranian embassy in Berlin demanded an apology for a cartoon in a German newspaper that insulted the Iranian football (soccer) team. To quote from iransportsnews.com:


In a statement addressed to chief editor of the daily Der Tagesspiegel, the embassy demanded a "written apology and measures aimed at rectifying this immoral act". The communiqué added the offensive caricature had caused "outrage among the Iranian people".



This subject is not going to go away. The whole thing is going to get crazier and crazier. What disturbs me is how the ignorant, often illiterate, masses are being played like a fiddle. It might prove interesting to survey the attendees of these violent protests to see how many could even read their Holy Qu'ran.​
 

sojourner

Annoyingly Progressive Since 2006
I think it's easy for people to justify fanaticism, caustic remarks, judgmentalism, or any of a number of other atrocities (like bombing, war and terrorism) on the basis of religion. Jimmy Swaggert was excused because he was religious. For years, Catholic priests were excused, because they were religious. Rioting Muslims are excused, because they're rioting for a religious cause. People do these things and, rather than hold them accountable, we tend to say, "Oh, they're religious...it must be OK somehow."

I have to ask, due to my own ignorance...doesn't Mohammed teach the same thing? Doesn't the word "Islam" mean something akin to "peace?"
 

Karl R

Active Member
I'm likely to offend a lot of people on both sides of the issue with my opinions ... but I've never been shy about offending people before.


This problem started with racism and discrimination. Most people feel that racism and discrimination are wrong, but we seem to be a lot more willing to ignore racism when it's happening to muslims (probably out of fear).

Due to this racism, discrimination and double standard, there has been a lot of resentment building up for years in the European muslim communities. The cartoon just provided the flashpoint.


The cartoonists aren't some kind of "free speech" heroes. They're racists who deliberately set out to incite the muslim population. If I go into a bar and insult an angry drunk, he might take the first swing, but I started the fight with my mouth.

These cartoonists (and the publishers) are pondscum. Even though they can't be held legally responsible, they share the moral blame for the deaths that have occurred.


Regardless, the violent response that some muslims have engaged in is wrong.

I was reading a post in the Islam forums that contained a message from Amr Khaled. In it, he relates how Mohammad was merciful, even to those who persecuted him, stoned him, and injured him. When others sought to smite his enemies, he instructed them to be merciful and prayed to Allah (God) to forgive them.

Extrapolating from this behavior, what do you believe Mohammad's reaction would be if someone slandered him? I believe he would react the same way. I think Mohammad would counsel mercy on the offenders and pray that they find guidance to Allah (God).

The short form of Amr Khaled's message to the West (if I understood it correctly) was: Mohammad is a man who deserves nothing but respect from everyone. The evidence he offered was quite convincing. (It completely convinced me, at least.)

My conclusions were a bit different, however. Why bother reacting to some Danish clowns who are attempting to slander such a great man? Mohammad is a great man. His greatness cannot be diminished, no matter how hard they try.

In addition, it's entirely possible that this insult to Mohammad is offensive to Allah (God). If that's true, there's no way I would touch the cartoonists. God (Allah) is completely capable of dealing with anyone who offends him, and I wouldn't want to accidentally spoil his plans.

Finally, this entire controversy reminds me of an old saying: "The dogs may bark, but the caravan keeps moving." The caravan's business is too important to be interrupted by a few barking dogs.

But in this case, the caravan hasn't kept moving. Instead, it has come to a halt in order to deal with a few barking dogs.
 

Jayhawker Soule

-- untitled --
Premium Member
Karl R said:
These cartoonists (and the publishers) are pondscum.
Perhaps, and perhaps not. Perhaps you are pond scum, and perhaps not - but my guess is that you know absolutely nothing about the cartoonists yet refuse to let that ignorance get in the way of tiresome liberal apologetics.
 

Karl R

Active Member
Jayhawker Soule said:
Perhaps you are pond scum
Quite frequently I am. I'm not certain how that disproves my previous statements.

Jayhawker Soule said:
my guess is that you know absolutely nothing about the cartoonists yet refuse to let that ignorance get in the way of tiresome liberal apologetics.
dan said:
The cartoons were drawn in response to a request by a Newspaper looking for cartoons for a piece they were doing about how they had the right to blaspheme God. It was a deliberate slap to Islam and was designed only to sensationalize the paper. Everyone has to take responsibility here. If you comment about the issue then you better have done your homework, because I am an editorial cartoonist and I know this issue inside and out.
I probably haven't done my homework sufficiently to meet dan's criteria, but I did do it sufficiently to run across dan's post.

But I didn't form my initial impression off dan's post. I formed it off personal experience. When I accidentally insult someone, I immediately apologize profusely for the unintentional insult. If I start implying that it's their fault that they felt insulted, it's quite likely that I intended to insult them. The cartoonists are reacting the same way I do when I intentionally insult someone.

I may be pondscum ... but I'm fairly perceptive pondscum.
 

gnostic

The Lost One
Are prophet now The God?

I just think it is plain stupid that people would equate insult to any prophet with blasphemy.

I am afraid that people in Islam have elevated a human to godhood, because that the only way you can link cartoon with blasphemy. In essence, Muslims are treating their prophet like their idol, and therefore idol-worhipping.

I have no sympathy for any rioter's death, particularly if they kill or injure people or destroy properties.
 

wmam

Active Member
Karl R said:
Quite frequently I am. I'm not certain how that disproves my previous statements.

I probably haven't done my homework sufficiently to meet dan's criteria, but I did do it sufficiently to run across dan's post.

But I didn't form my initial impression off dan's post. I formed it off personal experience. When I accidentally insult someone, I immediately apologize profusely for the unintentional insult. If I start implying that it's their fault that they felt insulted, it's quite likely that I intended to insult them. The cartoonists are reacting the same way I do when I intentionally insult someone.

I may be pondscum ... but I'm fairly perceptive pondscum.
I'm beginning to like you allot.:highfive:
 

wmam

Active Member
I suppose no one knows who died? Again I ask if anyone knows if it where rioters or innocent by-standers?
 
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