Cargo Cults

[ameyAtmA]

the problem is that idealists and realists both want to believe one creates the other. they don't. they are the same thing being manifested in varying forms at the 3rd dimension and in lower dimensions

Consciousness is beyond physical matter-energy, and is the subtlest. Not creation, but causes and effects, concurrent states in multiple dimensions, unmanifest and manifest, substratum and descent, potential-concrete... is all the same thing. Different way of looking at it.

At least what VedAnta does is sort out the eternal-unchanging from the transient-fleeting-transforming-ever-changing.

Former is Sat, latter is asat.

 

[Fool]

Consciousness is beyond physical matter-energy, and is the subtlest. Not creation, but causes and effects, concurrent states in multiple dimensions, unmanifest and manifest, substratum and descent, potential-concrete... is all the same thing. Different way of looking at it.

At least what VedAnta does is sort out the eternal-unchanging from the transient-fleeting-transforming-ever-changing.

Former is Sat, latter is asat.

brahman, or consciousness, is something. consciousness, or awareness, isn't beyond itself and it's active.

we already know matter is nothing but vibrations and gives off radiation. consciousness is detectable, discernible of itself.


you've always the ability to come home dorothy. those ruby red slippers aren't as magical as you believe but as you know ahaṁ brahmāsmi.


which brahman am i? the one 15 yrs ago? the one 25? maybe the one 33 yrs ago? or may the 2 yr old? or the one before my body was formed in the womb?

 

[ameyAtmA]

If the car were a puppet its reaction would be controlled by a person -- which it is not. The driver is not the puppeteer, the car senses an obstacle, makes a decision and executes an action all on its own.

What I mean is it was clearly manufactured and programmed by humans.
So, indirectly, its reactions are programmed, predictable, and indirectly controlled by humans.

 

[ameyAtmA]

*Dr. Subhash Chandra Bose showed...

Correction: It is Jagdish Chandra Bose, and sorry about the confusion. As a scientist he did not want to prove about the feelings. He only journaled what could be proved.

 

[ameyAtmA]

brahman, or consciousness, is something. consciousness, or awareness, isn't beyond itself and it's active.

Certainly not beyond Itself, but although immanent in the appearance (pervades it), it is also transcendental to it.

we already know matter is nothing but vibrations and gives off radiation.

Yes, true. This is why it is called appearance.

you've always the ability to come home dorothy. those ruby red slippers aren't as magical as you believe but as you know ahaṁ brahmāsmi.

There is no room for "belief" , it is all experience. This local mind has experienced the wonder of those ruby red slippers or should I say VAsudev's space-chariot? (without having read scripture) The local mind has [unexpectedly] experienced the wonder called VAsudev and drank the honey that Lakshmi fed from an urn - and this is just the tip of the iceberg.
Yes, I am Brahman', these are My forms. Our Leela is a book. This was just an excerpt.
KRshNAya vAsudevAya haraye paramAtmane |
praNata klesha nAshAya govindAya namo namah: ||

which brahman am i? the one 15 yrs ago? the one 25? maybe the one 33 yrs ago? or may the 2 yr old? or the one before my body was formed in the womb?

The eternal unchanging one. What you have listed is just fleeting transient local dream states.

 

[Fool]

Certainly not beyond Itself, but although immanent in the appearance (pervades it), it is also transcendental to it.

nothing can't be beyond itself

contradictory and subjective

 

[ameyAtmA]

nothing can't be beyond itself

contradictory and subjective

What Consciousness pervades and transcends (the object), is not truly Itself (subject) in the highest dimension, but rather, a derivation, a manifestation at a lower dimension.

So consciousness transcends the gross appearance, and simultaneously pervades it, but is not the gross directly. Apples to Apples.
When we say the lower dim is also Brahman, that is indirect. The lower dimension is not the Absolute because it is constantly changing, and is therefore mithya per VedAnta.

Like water pervades ice, but Water is beyond ice-ness, not beyond itself.

BG 9.4 Just as water pervades ice, I pervade this world and sustain it. However, in reality, I am not the world (i.e. I transcend it).

-----
...pashya me yogamaishwaryam! Behold My Yoga [of immanence and transcendence]

 

[Fool]

What Consciousness pervades and transcends (the object), is not truly Itself (subject) in the highest dimension, but rather, a derivation, a manifestation at a lower dimension.

So consciousness transcends the gross appearance, and simultaneously pervades it, but is not the gross directly. Apples to Apples.
When we say the lower dim is also Brahman, that is indirect. The lower dimension is not the Absolute because it is constantly changing, and is therefore mithya per VedAnta.

Like water pervades ice, but Water is beyond ice-ness, not beyond itself.

BG 9.4 Just as water pervades ice, I pervade this world and sustain it. However, in reality, I am not the world (i.e. I transcend it).

-----
...pasha me yogamaishwaryam! Behold My Yoga [of immanence and transcendence]

again you're talking about forms, images, states, conditions, aspects, facets. there are those things that are unconditional, formless and yet still physical. in other words the ABSOLUTE has no contrast; so it takes no condition that is discernible to something else but it is discernible to itself. to discern is an action. doesn't have to be to something apart from self, there is nothing to contrast it to, or to reflect upon. it is most definitely aware of itself.


brahman dreams; otherwise the little "I" i'm not.




And finally, you would dream where you are now. You would dream the dream of living the life that you are actually living today.

That would be within the infinite multiplicity of choices you would have. Of playing that you weren't God, because the whole nature of the godhead, according to this idea, is to play that he is not. So in this idea then, everybody is fundamentally the ultimate reality, not God in a politically kingly sense, but god in the sense of being the self, the deep-down basic whatever there is. And you are all that, only you are pretending you are not.

 

[Valjean]

This thread is talking at cross-levels.

Everything is conscious: agree.
Only a few things are conscious: agree.

Reality is different at different levels. Consciousness is different at different levels.
It might be helpful to cite your level.

 

[siti]

This thread is talking at cross-levels.

Everything is conscious: agree.
Only a few things are conscious: agree.

I don't see how you can have both of these...unless by "everything" you mean "all"...IOW - I can envisage a universe that is 'conscious' when not all its constituent parts are 'conscious' - but I'm struggling to understand how such an holistic expression of 'consciousness' can be said to be fundamental - because clearly (to my mind) that would have to 'emerge' as a 'function' of the whole, not an intrinsic property of the parts - wouldn't it?

 

[Valjean]

Can you envisage a dream being different from a waking-state 'reality'?

There are different realities. You can speak of more than one.
I believe in computers and cats. I also believe they have no reality and exist only in my mind. Both are true -- at different levels.

 

[siti]

I believe in computers and cats.

Just cats for me! I don't believe in computers at all...and I certainly didn't dream up our cat - she is very stubbornly and persistently real - even when - especially when - I am not thinking about her.