Capitalism and Christianity

[Fool]

Can a christian be a capitalist?

Matthew 6:24
No man can serve two masters: for either he will hate the one, and love the other; or else he will hold to the one, and despise the other. You cannot serve God and mammon.

John 12:6
He did not say this because he cared about the poor but because he was a thief; as keeper of the money bag, he used to help himself to what was put into it.

 

[Sleeppy]

No.

Capitalism requires selfishness/self-righteousness, too burdensome for Christianity to withstand.

 

[syo]

Can a christian be a capitalist?

no. capitalism is satanic.

 

[Sleeppy]

The capitalist Jesus left a bill too large for his capitalist Christian customers.

 

[9-10ths_Penguin]

Can a christian be a capitalist?

IMO, a Christian as described in the Bible would never have enough Earthly power to have a say in which economic system he lives under, except for the internal rules of his community of believers.

 

[sun rise]

Yes if people are honest, charge fair prices, help the poor and so forth. This is one form that is focused that way Social entrepreneurship - Wikipedia

 

[Laika]

Can a christian be a capitalist?

Yes. As an economic system Capitalism developed directly out of Medieval Feudal Christianity. Max Weber argued that the "Protestant Work Ethic" was important for developing Capitalism. The belief in free will, natural rights, man's selfishness driven by his material being and human nature (i.e. the "soul") all have a Christian basis but serve to justify Capitalism as an ideology. Most justifications of Capitalism are ultimately built on philosophical claims which cannot be objectively substantiated and are essentially faith based claims about the natural way of things.

This doesn't mean all capitalists are christian or all Christians are capitalist, but there is a historical relationship between the two and in the United States, "fusionism" is the combination of Christianity and Conservative Capitalism in the Republican Party.

As Capitalism has become a global economic system, so Christianity has- on the back of colonial expansion to increase markets and "civilise" pre-capitalist societies- become the worlds largest religion. Even if you argue that were a geographic co-incidence that Capitalism and Christianity coincide in Europe, you would have expected the two hundred plus years since the industrial revolution to have brought about a more "appropriate" religious worldview. Where there is conflict is that Capitalism needs the development of natural science for the growth of industry, technology and the economy. However religious belief is essential to the preservation of Capitalism as a "scientific" understanding of Society and Man would create the knowledge conditions necessary to "plan" them.

Religion helps us accept that Market Forces "work in mysterious ways" and that a planned society is by definition impossible (we can't "know" god or change the "essence" of man/his soul) or evil (we can't and shouldn't "play" god). The notion of "absolute power corrupts absolutely" has religious origins in the belief that man is a fallen animal condemned to sin by his material desires for wealth and power incapable of achieving divinity or salvation.

 

[Sanzbir]

Can a christian be a capitalist?

Yes.

There's a significant difference between saying "I should donate to the poor" and saying "Everyone should be forced to donate to the poor."

 

[9-10ths_Penguin]

Yes.

There's a significant difference between saying "I should donate to the poor" and saying "Everyone should be forced to donate to the poor."

Which one is "if you don't donate all of your money, God will strike you down"?

Which one is "if you are rich, you'll suffer some unspecified 'woe'"?

 

[Twilight Hue]

No.

Capitalism requires selfishness/self-righteousness, too burdensome for Christianity to withstand.

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[DavidFirth]

Capitalism isn't just about making money and ignoring the needs of others. If you ignore the others too long they will rise up and kill you and take the government away from you.

Capitalism is about providing a good service or product while turning a profit doing it. Of course any financial system needs to be regulated to prevent monopolies, people driving prices up or down with ill intent, etc.

Yes, a Christian can be a capitalist while obeying the teaching of Jesus.

 

[Sleeppy]

Capitalism is just not a socially efficient system.

 

[Sanzbir]

Which one is "if you don't donate all of your money, God will strike you down"?

Which one is "if you are rich, you'll suffer some unspecified 'woe'"?

"Donate your money or God will punish you" is still different than "Donate your money or Christians are here-bye ordered to punish you."

This is like taking a faith that requires vegetarianism and reading that as a mandate to crusade against all meat-eaters.

 

[DavidFirth]

Capitalism is just not an efficient system.

What is, in your opinion?

 

[Twilight Hue]

John 12:6
He did not say this because he cared about the poor but because he was a thief; as keeper of the money bag, he used to help himself to what was put into it.

How did he know? Did he count the money as well?

 

[9-10ths_Penguin]

"Donate your money or God will punish you" is still different than "Donate your money or Christians are here-bye ordered to punish you."

The only difference is in who does the punishment.

 

[DavidFirth]

How did he know? Did he count the money as well?

Jesus knew all and I feel sure that at one time or another at least one of the other disciples noticed Judas was stealing from the bag or that the bag was lighter after Judas had it.

 

[Sanzbir]

The only difference is in who does the punishment.

So what?? If it isn't the state punishing people for not paying into welfare, then it isn't state welfare now is it?? The difference in who does the punishment is pretty significant because if it's God and not a government then that government could still be "capitalist" now couldn't it??

 

[9-10ths_Penguin]

So what?? If it isn't the state punishing people for not paying into welfare, then it isn't state welfare now is it?? The difference in who does the punishment is pretty significant because if it's God and not a government then that government could still be "capitalist" now couldn't it??

I think you need to go back in the thread and read my first post again: if we're talking about the sort of Christianity described in the Bible, then no Christians would have enough earthly power to influence what the state is going to do.

The Gospels present Christianity as a fringe, persecuted minority. Once we start talking about Christians having enough political power to dictate government policy, we aren't talking about the Christianity of the Bible any more. In that model, the only people a Christian would be in a position to force their ideas on would be other members of their marginalized Christian community.

 

[metis]

Can a christian be a capitalist?

To a limited extent, yes. Where the problem may and often does come in is what is society's responsibility to the poor since in any free-enterprise system there'll be "winners" but also "losers" financially.

Under Jewish Law, the poor and the widows had to be taken care of, and it was never viewed that charity alone was enough. There's around 10 Commandments that deal with helping the poor, and only one of them deals with us providing charity.

Would Jesus abandon the poor and say to just let capitalism run its course? Highly unlikely based on what he said, such as in the Sermon On the Mount. If he felt Jewish Law was wrong on it's demand that the poor must be helped, he certainly didn't show it. Matter of fact, he basically stated that following what the minimum that the Law puts forth may not be enough. Indeed, in Judaism both then and now, it is expected that we provide charitable relief besides any legal obligation.

One final point. In Jesus' time we did not have our own sovereignty, so the mandated Laws went through the Great Sanhedrin and the Temple priests to enforce and administer. At no time was it ever assumed that we didn't have both a legal and a charitable obligation to help the poor.

 

[Fool]

Yes. As an economic system Capitalism developed directly out of Medieval Feudal Christianity. Max Weber argued that the "Protestant Work Ethic" was important for developing Capitalism. The belief in free will, natural rights, man's selfishness driven by his material being and human nature (i.e. the "soul") all have a Christian basis but serve to justify Capitalism as an ideology. Most justifications of Capitalism are ultimately built on philosophical claims which cannot be objectively substantiated and are essentially faith based claims about the natural way of things.

This doesn't mean all capitalists are christian or all Christians are capitalist, but there is a historical relationship between the two and in the United States, "fusionism" is the combination of Christianity and Conservative Capitalism in the Republican Party.

As Capitalism has become a global economic system, so Christianity has- on the back of colonial expansion to increase markets and "civilise" pre-capitalist societies- become the worlds largest religion. Even if you argue that were a geographic co-incidence that Capitalism and Christianity coincide in Europe, you would have expected the two hundred plus years since the industrial revolution to have brought about a more "appropriate" religious worldview. Where there is conflict is that Capitalism needs the development of natural science for the growth of industry, technology and the economy. However religious belief is essential to the preservation of Capitalism as a "scientific" understanding of Society and Man would create the knowledge conditions necessary to "plan" them.

Religion helps us accept that Market Forces "work in mysterious ways" and that a planned society is by definition impossible (we can't "know" god or change the "essence" of man/his soul) or evil (we can't and shouldn't "play" god). The notion of "absolute power corrupts absolutely" has religious origins in the belief that man is a fallen animal condemned to sin by his material desires for wealth and power incapable of achieving divinity or salvation.

the Amish, Mennonite, and Hutterite seem to fare quite well without capitalism among their specific communities.


also, the disciples of the character jesus attempted to create a community like the essenes.

32 And the multitude of them that believed were of one heart and of one soul: neither said any of them that ought of the things which he possessed was his own; but they had all things common. 33 And with great power gave the apostles witness of the resurrection of the Lord Jesus: and great grace was upon them all. 34 Neither was there any among them that lacked: for as many as were possessors of lands or houses sold them, and brought the prices of the things that were sold, 35 And laid them down at the apostles' feet: and distribution was made unto every man according as he had need.