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Can't We Just Accept?

caminante

Member
Why do we esmerize so much in trying to make others to believe as we do?

i have fund that it doesn't matter how pretty or harsh they tell you the path is going to be, you have to walk it for yourself, you still, even if you have all the knowledge in the world about life, you have to live it.

Is there a God? who knows?

do you feel good by believing in it? then BELIEVE IN IT!!!

i'm just tired, simply tired, of hearing people trying to convince, i'm tired that everyone claims to have the truth. And you know what, everyone has the truth, but a piece of truth, and until we all agree on putting the pieces together, we will never find that truth.

if you are one of those persons, who constantly try to make others to believe as you do, i ask you a favor in the name of peace, accept that we all have differen't pieces of truth, accept others as they are, love them all, even their traditions and beliefs.
 

sahra-t

/me loves frubals
Don't you agree that debating over the truth, with what we each know, can expose the false ideas as false?
I see what you are trying to say about ultimately, everyone having to accept everyone else's views- but I believe it would be to our detriment to simply do this without first examining and criticising each other's ideas to 'weed out' what we can.
 

Cordoba

Well-Known Member
Hello caminante and welcome to the forum.

You're quite right that we should accept others as they are.

Each individual is free to believe in what they find to be most convincing.

The Qur'an clearly states that for each their religion:

"For you is your religion, and for me is my religion" (109:6)

Peace and all the best.
 

Ðanisty

Well-Known Member
sahra-t said:
Don't you agree that debating over the truth, with what we each know, can expose the false ideas as false?
I see what you are trying to say about ultimately, everyone having to accept everyone else's views- but I believe it would be to our detriment to simply do this without first examining and criticising each other's ideas to 'weed out' what we can.
I think what caminante is trying to say is that there are no false ideas. All ideas are part of a big idea that is the truth. Some ideas may seem false, but there is truth in them that you might not be able to see unless you look at the whole picture. I could be wrong, but I think this is what caminante is trying to say.
 

caminante

Member
sahra-t said:
Don't you agree that debating over the truth, with what we each know, can expose the false ideas as false?
I see what you are trying to say about ultimately, everyone having to accept everyone else's views- but I believe it would be to our detriment to simply do this without first examining and criticising each other's ideas to 'weed out' what we can.

oh i understand what you say...

i love to debate, it is good to learn from others, and in fact this can only happen when we SHARE our ideas, no when we try to impose them.

i'm not talking about eliminating all differences, no, differences give us perspectives and different faces to the world. But is intolerance what makes the man blind to other possibilities.

i mean, you can go and debate over religion to a priest, i'm sure he would not change his faith, however, you can accept and understand his belief and he mine, and then we can learn more form each other.

learning does not come from that violence you put into debating. Have you seen the buddhist monks debating? they have like an especial ocasion, and they talk and talk with a lot of energy during hours. They get "angry", well they just get overexcited, but when the debate is over, the other monk still is you friend and everything goes back to normal.

I also put it this way:

there are football clubs, each one of us depending mostly in the place we were born choose a football team. we think they are the best, no matter how bad they do in the league. we sure cannot convinve someone else to change of teams, however we have friends from other teams, and is fun watching the game together:p
if there weren't other teams besides ours, then there will be no football.
so, it is important, to understand that differences keep us alive, however we cannot kill ourselves because of them...

dang, sorry the whole mixing football with religions. (go italy:areyoucra!!):D
 

sahra-t

/me loves frubals
caminante said:
oh i understand what you say...

i love to debate, it is good to learn from others, and in fact this can only happen when we SHARE our ideas, no when we try to impose them.

i'm not talking about eliminating all differences, no, differences give us perspectives and different faces to the world. But is intolerance what makes the man blind to other possibilities.

i mean, you can go and debate over religion to a priest, i'm sure he would not change his faith, however, you can accept and understand his belief and he mine, and then we can learn more form each other.

learning does not come from that violence you put into debating. Have you seen the buddhist monks debating? they have like an especial ocasion, and they talk and talk with a lot of energy during hours. They get "angry", well they just get overexcited, but when the debate is over, the other monk still is you friend and everything goes back to normal.

I also put it this way:

there are football clubs, each one of us depending mostly in the place we were born choose a football team. we think they are the best, no matter how bad they do in the league. we sure cannot convinve someone else to change of teams, however we have friends from other teams, and is fun watching the game together:p
if there weren't other teams besides ours, then there will be no football.
so, it is important, to understand that differences keep us alive, however we cannot kill ourselves because of them...

dang, sorry the whole mixing football with religions. (go italy:areyoucra!!):D

Love the football analogy, although it doesn't quite work with me because Liverpool are the best. But I get your point ;)

I understand what you said, but a lot of people (especially on this forum, I'd say) can debate in a friendly manner, like the monks you mentioned, without attempting to impose their beliefs on another. No matter whatever people are arguing about, they're still friends- I think there's only a minority of people who take it to heart.
 

Green Gaia

Veteran Member
Depends on what you're asking me to accept.

Some examples of things I cannot accept:

For 14 years, Reverend Fred Phelps has directed a campaign unlike any other. At curbsides, outside funerals, and before state capitols, Phelps and his followers have branded this a nation of sinners, of people bound to live eternally in a fiery hell.

They have called homosexuals the face of evil. They have called fallen American soldiers proof of God’s wrath. They have sneered at every other faith.

It’s simply their duty, they believe, to let it be known that God hates you; that you’re going to hell.

Phelps is pastor of the Westboro Baptist Church in Topeka, Kansas. He and his followers began appearing outside funerals of American troops killed in Iraq since last June. They have attended about 100 so far. Westboro’s protesters first gained widespread attention in 1998 in the matter of Matthew Sheppard’s death in Wyoming. Phelps and his followers showed up at the funeral with signs bearing their trademark message: “God Hates ****.” They chanted “**** die, God Laughs.”

In the many protests since then, they have protested the funerals of homosexuals, and also at memorials for Mister Rogers and even the 9/11 victims.
July 4, 1999:[FONT=&quot]
[/FONT]Bloomington, Indiana. – A gunman who targeted minorities in a deadly shooting spree in the Chicago area struck again yesterday, killing a Korean-American man outside a church, police said. The shooter, linked to a white supremacist group, had also allegedly fired at Asians and blacks in two Illinois cities on Saturday. “This man is on a spree,” Chicago police commander William Hayes said. “He’s shooting people all over.” Police issued an arrest warrant for ….. Benjamin Nathaniel Smith, [age] 21. Bloomington Police Chief Jim Kennedy said Smith is [a] member of the World Church of the Creator, an organization that distributed anti-minority and anti-Semitic literature in Bloomington last year, when Smith was a student at Indiana University. The church is led by the Reverend Matt Hale, who said of Smith: “He was a thoughtful, dedicated person who believed essentially our creed, our religion.
From the Associated Press, June 15, 1999:

Dhaka, Bangaladesh – Police have exhumed the body of a teenager they say died after an Islamic cleric ordered her flogged for having premarital sex and inducing an abortion.
Friday, June 01, 2001
By Tom Gibb, Pittsburgh Post-Gazette
HOLLIDAYSBURG, Pa. -- Dennis and Lorie Nixon went to prison yesterday, convicted of letting their teen-age daughter die, giving her prayers when the law said they should have gotten her medical help.

"Why didn't we seek medical treatment? The answer is we didn't feel it's right because of our religion," Nixon said yesterday. "I'm not trying to persuade anybody to see things my way. I just have my beliefs, and I want to be accepted for them."

The beliefs are a mainstay for members of Faith Tabernacle Congregation. A decade ago, those beliefs meant the death of the Nixon's 8-year-old son, consumed by what doctors testified was a treatable ear infection. In 1996, daughter Shannon Nixon, 16, died of diabetes acidosis, a treatable condition. They opted for prayer over medicine, she fell into a coma and died.
Recently in rural Appalachia, a snake handling minister’s set of religious beliefs caused five young children to become orphans because of their parents being bitten by rattlesnakes during church services.
In Afghanistan, women were beaten and stoned in public for not having the proper attire, even if this means simply not having the mesh covering in front of their eyes.

Women were not allowed to work or even go out in public without a male relative; professional women such as professors, translators, doctors, lawyers, artists, and writers were forced from their jobs and stuffed into their homes.

Women are still severely restricted and treated as subhuman in the name of Fundamentalist Islam in many countries. The testimony of a woman is worth only half the testimony of a man in court according to one interpretation of Islamic law.

Should I accept these atrocities simpy because they are someone's religious beliefs?
 

michel

Administrator Emeritus
Staff member
caminante said:
Why do we esmerize so much in trying to make others to believe as we do?

i have fund that it doesn't matter how pretty or harsh they tell you the path is going to be, you have to walk it for yourself, you still, even if you have all the knowledge in the world about life, you have to live it.

Is there a God? who knows?

do you feel good by believing in it? then BELIEVE IN IT!!!

i'm just tired, simply tired, of hearing people trying to convince, i'm tired that everyone claims to have the truth. And you know what, everyone has the truth, but a piece of truth, and until we all agree on putting the pieces together, we will never find that truth.

if you are one of those persons, who constantly try to make others to believe as you do, i ask you a favor in the name of peace, accept that we all have differen't pieces of truth, accept others as they are, love them all, even their traditions and beliefs.

Hi caminante,

I thought I would take the opportunity to welcome you to Religious Forums;

Please feel free to check out our guide for our newer members (from which there is a link to the Forum Rules that you ought to see).

Also, please know that you can be comfortable asking questions at any time!

As far as your point is concerned in the OP, I think you are absolutely correct with
no matter how hard the path is going to be, you have to walk it for yourself, you still, even if you have all the knowledge in the world about life, you have to live it.
I came to the conclusion a long time ago that second hand experiences are worth little; you need to experience things for yourself if you are going to learn.

i'm just tired, simply tired, of hearing people trying to convince, i'm tired that everyone claims to have the truth. And you know what, everyone has the truth, but a piece of truth, and until we all agree on putting the pieces together, we will never find that truth.

You are probably right in what you say here, too. But, one of the Rules of the Forum is that no one is allowed to try and 'convert' another member, so (here at least) you won't find people trying to make you believe in anything.
I hope you enjoy your stay with us, and I look forward to reading your posts.:)
 

caminante

Member
hey, no i mean, this place is great...but i was like talking in general..like outside.

is actually cuz a friend's mom started to questioning me about my beliefs, (it was a while ago) and she wouldn't want me to hang out with my friend. My friend and i use just to discuss about some religious isues, but no big deal, was just joking around....but his mom thought i was a terrible influence to him, and that i was going to send him to hell.

what a bad friend i am, sending him to hell, wow
=)

hey thanks anyway, this site is great!
 
You make a very good point and I agree with you 100%. We Catholics do not believe in proselytizing and you will never see a Catholic priest or follower asking someone else to convert. And yet, there are many more converts to Catholicism in any given year than there are for all other world religions put together. Why is that? We Catholics believe that Christianity is a way of life. We practice our religion by doing good works and we believe that faith without good works is nothing more than empty words. Mother Teresa is a good example of how we Catholics practice our religion. Mother Teresa, never asked a single person to convert to the Catholic faith. Yet, she was responsible for converting millions to the Catholic faith. How did she do it? Others saw Christ working through her and they wanted Christ to work through them as well. She didn’t have to say a word. Her actions and he works of charity said more than any proselytizing protestant preacher could ever utter from his soap box.

I have seen more than a few so called missionaries going to other countries for the sole purpose of proselytizing to poor nomadic rural people in Africa and South America. These so called “good people” actually thought that they were doing good works through their preachings. But, the truth is that what is important in the life of a Christian is what you do and not what you say. Many who call themselves Christians have yet to learn that.

:cool:
 

caminante

Member
Saint George said:
You make a very good point and I agree with you 100%. We Catholics do not believe in proselytizing and you will never see a Catholic priest or follower asking someone else to convert. And yet, there are many more converts to Catholicism in any given year than there are for all other world religions put together. Why is that? We Catholics believe that Christianity is a way of life. We practice our religion by doing good works and we believe that faith without good works is nothing more than empty words. Mother Teresa is a good example of how we Catholics practice our religion. Mother Teresa, never asked a single person to convert to the Catholic faith. Yet, she was responsible for converting millions to the Catholic faith. How did she do it? Others saw Christ working through her and they wanted Christ to work through them as well. She didn’t have to say a word. Her actions and he works of charity said more than any proselytizing protestant preacher could ever utter from his soap box.

I have seen more than a few so called missionaries going to other countries for the sole purpose of proselytizing to poor nomadic rural people in Africa and South America. These so called “good people” actually thought that they were doing good works through their preachings. But, the truth is that what is important in the life of a Christian is what you do and not what you say. Many who call themselves Christians have yet to learn that.

:cool:


I feel very glad to know a, can i call you, real christian?

It is great to start putting into action our beliefs.
 

bunny1ohio

Active Member
Saint George said:
We Catholics do not believe in proselytizing and you will never see a Catholic priest or follower asking someone else to convert.


[FONT=Arial, Helvetica, sans-serif]"The Church is once again taking over the country of Slovakia to create a new fascist stronghold. Through the 'Catholic Party' it runs the ministry of justice, education and interior. Despite the fact that they have few seats in Parliment they have been able to gain strategic control over the most important institutions.
[FONT=Arial, Helvetica, sans-serif]They have mandated Catholic 'religious' education in all public schools, banned many competiting religions as 'cults' while allowing mind control cults such as the Unification Church, Hare Chrisna, and Church of Scientology. The Slovak taxpayers are required to pay the salaries of priests. The largest land owner in the country, it pays zero taxes. In a special pact with the Vatican Slovakia all but ceded its sovereignty over to the Church."[/FONT]
[FONT=Arial, Helvetica, sans-serif][/FONT]
[FONT=Arial, Helvetica, sans-serif] From http://www.truthforachange.info/articles/catholics.php[/FONT]

Saint George said:
We practice our religion by doing good works and we believe that faith without good works is nothing more than empty words.

"Catholics ignore the fact that the catholic ban on birth control has ensured that tens of millions of unwanted children live unimaginable lives of deprivation and grow up (those that survive) to prey upon the societies that forsake them. The millions of preventable cases of AIDS caused by Vatican policy also goes ignored. They ignore the financial scandals, the fact that the church supported the Nazi's and other other fascists and helped smuggle the worst war criminals to safety from justice. They ignore the unforgivable crimes of the holy inquisitors and the fact that the catholic church invented some of the most heinous forms of torture that could never be anything but satanic. Catholics never mention their genocide committed against the peoples of the 'new world'."

From the same website

[/FONT]
Saint George said:
I have seen more than a few so called missionaries going to other countries for the sole purpose of proselytizing to poor nomadic rural people in Africa and South America. These so called “good people” actually thought that they were doing good works through their preachings. But, the truth is that what is important in the life of a Christian is what you do and not what you say. Many who call themselves Christians have yet to learn that.
Saint George said:

And many have yet to learn that the religion does not dictate the actions of its individual members, leaders, or even general philosphy. These things will change through time and people in ALL religions have done bad things... Catholocism... some of the worst things imaginable....

"Pavelic, his goons and Catholic priests butchered anyone who was not Aryan or Catholic or couldn't afford to buy special high-priced certificates of conversion. The degree of horror unleashed was unmatched by any of Hitler's troops. Children, women, men and the aged were butchered alive in death camps, in their homes and in public displays. Some of the most heinous acts were organized and carried out by Catholic priests and monks."

"[FONT=Arial, Helvetica, sans-serif]The Vatican had long had cozy ties with the mafia and after the war it was involved in a number of criminal conspiracies. Its secretive Vatican bank is beyond the reach of anyone except the Pope and is used for laundering billions of dollars each year in criminal funds. [FONT=Arial, Helvetica, sans-serif]The infamous BCCI scandal exposed a money laundering operation conducted by the mafia, the CIA and the catholic church."[/FONT][/FONT]

Like you said George.... it's not what you say, but what you do that matters... :sheep:
 

Scuba Pete

Le plongeur avec attitude...
This reminds me of Lilly Von Schtup's song in blaxzing saddles...

I'm tired
Sick and tired of love
I've had my fill of love
From below and above
Tired, tired of being admired
Tired of love uninspired
Let's face it
I'm tired


So, get some rest and renew your inner inspiration! This is a great place to do it!
 

blueman

God's Warrior
caminante said:
Why do we esmerize so much in trying to make others to believe as we do?

i have fund that it doesn't matter how pretty or harsh they tell you the path is going to be, you have to walk it for yourself, you still, even if you have all the knowledge in the world about life, you have to live it.

Is there a God? who knows?

do you feel good by believing in it? then BELIEVE IN IT!!!

i'm just tired, simply tired, of hearing people trying to convince, i'm tired that everyone claims to have the truth. And you know what, everyone has the truth, but a piece of truth, and until we all agree on putting the pieces together, we will never find that truth.

if you are one of those persons, who constantly try to make others to believe as you do, i ask you a favor in the name of peace, accept that we all have differen't pieces of truth, accept others as they are, love them all, even their traditions and beliefs.
I think the more important issue is sharing the message of Christ with you and the fact that a loving Saviour died for you and was resurrected extending redemption to you and a relationship with the Almighty God. It is not my agenda to convince you of anything because God gave you free will to choose what you believe in. All religions have some truth to it, but there has to be one that is the truth? If it is the former, we have nothing to lose, but if it is the latter, the consequences can be devastating. I would just ask that you approach the message with an open mind and know the following about the Bible, purely from a intellectual and objective viewpoint (from another thread):


2 Timothy 3:16,17 tells us that scripture has been God inspired and throughout the past 100 years, the authenticity of the Bible has been validated through historical, arhceaoligical and circumstantial evidence. If you compare modern text of the Holy Bible with some of the 2nd century transcripts that exists today, the context is consistent regarding the message relayed in both the Old and New Testament. Books written 1500-1700 years ago are still valid today. Even when the Bible makes reference to scientific issues (Job 26:7, Jeremiah 33:22), it is valid in the 21st century. There are hundreds of prophecies regarding Christ (Psalms 22, Micah 5:2, Isaiah 7, 9 and 53, Zechariah 11:12) that have been fulfilled. Man has not changed these events, all we did throghout history has translated the Bible into over 1/3 of the known languages in this world so that millions may know the truth regarding God and His Word. The consistency regarding the theme is a miracle in itself due to the fact that God's Holy Bible was written by over 40 authors (prophets, kings, shepherds, poets, fisherman, tax collector, historians, military officials, princes, scholars, common laborers, etc.)tax from different walks of life over a 1700 year period focused on the following: (1) It is God-centric, (2) It's theme is redemption, (3) It's hero is Jesus, (4) It's villian is Satan and (5) It's purpose is to glorify the Almighty God.
 

caminante

Member
I accept what you say, it has validity, and i hope you to be very happy and comfort with what you believe.

My beliefs extend far more, and i could say i'm a cbinations of some buddhist philosophy, plus some hindu and plus my christian roots...i have found in all relgions a message of hope, that unfortunately is distorsioned because of some people who believe for themselves....
i just do not like to believe in an specific religion, i think they all have very important things to say, and i want to listen to them all..

maybe before i die i will chose a religion, but after i have seen is the right, i don't know...i don't belong, and i feel good...
 

blueman

God's Warrior
caminante said:
I accept what you say, it has validity, and i hope you to be very happy and comfort with what you believe.

My beliefs extend far more, and i could say i'm a cbinations of some buddhist philosophy, plus some hindu and plus my christian roots...i have found in all relgions a message of hope, that unfortunately is distorsioned because of some people who believe for themselves....
i just do not like to believe in an specific religion, i think they all have very important things to say, and i want to listen to them all..

maybe before i die i will chose a religion, but after i have seen is the right, i don't know...i don't belong, and i feel good...
God bless you and I hope you have and continue to find peace in your life. One final thought. Try to get past the idea of organized religion and understand that God wants a personal and loving relationship with you through Christ. Salvation is not a matter of our feelings, but it is through the matter of faith and trust in Christ. It is through this experential relationship that you will find joy (not that all events in life will be joyful) in the fullness and loving nature of Jesus Christ. Take care.
 

Purple Thyme

Active Member
I accept what you say, it has validity, and i hope you to be very happy and comfort with what you believe.

My beliefs extend far more, and i could say i'm a cbinations of some buddhist philosophy, plus some hindu and plus my christian roots...i have found in all relgions a message of hope, that unfortunately is distorsioned because of some people who believe for themselves....
i just do not like to believe in an specific religion, i think they all have very important things to say, and i want to listen to them all..

maybe before i die i will chose a religion, but after i have seen is the right, i don't know...i don't belong, and i feel good...

Good for you!!!! I feel the same way and your last line well I have always thought the same but maybe I'll never choose one.:clap :clap :clap
 

caminante

Member
blueman said:
God bless you and I hope you have and continue to find peace in your life. One final thought. Try to get past the idea of organized religion and understand that God wants a personal and loving relationship with you through Christ. Salvation is not a matter of our feelings, but it is through the matter of faith and trust in Christ. It is through this experential relationship that you will find joy (not that all events in life will be joyful) in the fullness and loving nature of Jesus Christ. Take care.

believe me, i will understand what you say, and i will pay attention to the organized religion thing you told me...believe me, anything someone has to say, stays in my mind and makes part of my "path" so thank you, and God bless you too...
 
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