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Featured Canonization of the Saints

Discussion in 'Religious Debates' started by Unveiled Artist, Dec 12, 2018.

  1. URAVIP2ME

    URAVIP2ME Veteran Member

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    Less extravagant in miracles to me is that No one can get rid of the Bible even though over the past 2,000 years the Bible has many enemies both from without and from within.
    No one can get rid of Bible people, and No one can stop Bible people from internationally telling others about the message Jesus said to give which is that God's kingdom government of a thousand years will establish Peace on Earth among persons of goodwill. That vast global spiritual work could Not have been done without divine backing.
     
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  2. URAVIP2ME

    URAVIP2ME Veteran Member

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    Christians care just as Jesus cares. That is No argument with the Bible itself.
    I find the main theme of Jesus' teaching and preaching is found at Luke 4:43.
    Sure Jesus fed, cured,etc. but his 'main focus' was on the final cure or healing by God's kingdom of Daniel 2:44.
    That is why Jesus gave the instruction at Matthew 24:14; Acts 1:8 to take that good news kingdom message throughout the whole earth.
    To help further start the preaching work there was organization as per Acts of the Apostles 4:35-37; 2:45.
    The gospel was taught ' without charge ' as per 1 Corinthians 9:18 as Jesus said at Matthew 10:8 B.
    They never passed around any collection plates, etc.
    I find there are worldly affairs today out of harmony with Jesus' teachings - Matthew 26:52; Revelation 13:10.
    James 1:27 is showing an organized manner, as does 1 Corinthians 12:11.
    No where in Scripture do we kind a ' "just do your own thing" free-for-all. Jesus,nor Paul taught No such thing.
    According to Luke, Paul even supported his ministry by making tents as per Acts of the Apostles 18:3.
    Any comments about 1 Thessalonians 2:9_____or 2 Thessalonians 3:10 _____ or 1 Timothy 5:8-18_____
     
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  3. Unveiled Artist

    Unveiled Artist Veteran Member

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    Nothing lasts forever. The Bible (and Dharma. And Star Trek. and) will all come to an end. The scriptures thrown aside. The suttas in runes. Strek the 4245th Generation! Good gosh, I hope not. Things end. The bible had its beginning. The bible will have its end.

    Have you thought about life ending? Even in a smidget of a second where everything you cared about and put faith in didnt exist anymore? Can you entertain that thought? (actual questions)

    Of course they can. All spiritual texts have their lifespan. You mind as well say The Dharma and its over 2,000 scripture will never cease. Politics keeps christianity alive. Can you imagine if christians werent colonizers how pleasant this world would be?

    Mircales (as so Dejee mentioned) stoped at the apostles. I assume you all will be hoping for the resurrection for years to come. I mean, 1999 people were getting their can soups and waters. Prince was on the radio almost 24/7. The News was more concerned about how the world end rather than taking care of the world so it wont end anytime soon.

    We take life for granted. Faith is just that, faith. Its not knowlege. Its not fact.

    Things end.

    Can you give me an example of something that has not ended, decayed, etc outside of our hopes and theories everlasting life? edit Something that has an eternal lifespan on this earth?
     
  4. URAVIP2ME

    URAVIP2ME Veteran Member

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    Religion is in bed with the political.
    Religion wants a union of church and state in order to try to crown or dethrone earth's rulers.
    Not to kill, but to send out those who will kill.
    Even using the pulpit as a recruiting station so parents will sacrifice their young on the Altar of War as if that is the same thing as the Altar of God.
    Religion meddling in world affairs causes attention to religion and places religion on the United Nation's radar.
    With a growing anti-religious atmosphere in feeling and attitudes, then No surprise if drastic action is taken.

    Everything is perishable.
    But, as we can change garments to refresh oneself God refreshes Earth.
    That is why Ecclesiastes 1:4 B says the Earth abides forever.
    Adam was offered an eternal lifespan on this Earth as long as he did Not break God's Law.
    We are Not to blame what Adam and Satan brought upon us.
    Because we are Not to blame is why God sent Jesus to Earth for us.
    There is No mention of can soups at Revelation 22:2 but that there will be ' healing ' for earth's nations.
    The world scene will Not end nor collapse on its own.
    When world powers will be saying, "Peace and Security..." that is a precursor to the coming great tribulation of Revelation 7:14.
    That is what takes place before Jesus, as Prince of Peace, will establish endless lifespan on Earth among persons of goodwill.
     
  5. Unveiled Artist

    Unveiled Artist Veteran Member

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    Nothing is eternal. Everything ends.

    Have you entertained the idea that nothing is eternal; and, you will die?
     
  6. URAVIP2ME

    URAVIP2ME Veteran Member

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    Everyone knows they will die, to me that is why people pretend themselves alive in another realm of existence.
    If we could stop sinning we would Not die, because we can't stop sinning is why we die.
    Without Jesus there would be No resurrection for the unconscious dead who know nothing.
    It's the wicked who will be 'destroyed forever' as per Psalms 92:7 so the wicked will be dead (extinct) forever.
    The majority of mankind can have a resurrection during Jesus' coming 1,000-year governmental rule over Earth.
    A happy-and-healthy physical resurrection back to live life forever on a beautiful paradisical Earth forever.
     
  7. Unveiled Artist

    Unveiled Artist Veteran Member

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    Have you entertained the idea you will not live forever (not in spirit nor in flesh)? That you will die; cease to exist?
     
  8. Deeje

    Deeje Avid Bible Student
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    If I may UA.....the Bible has outlasted most other ancient books but it also will cease to be relevant at some time in the future. (Except perhaps as a historical reference)

    It is relevant for the time period it covers....from the fall of man in the Garden of Eden, and the loss of God's favour, to the reintroduction of God's rightful rulership over mankind and the salvation of those who appreciate the right of the Sovereign of the Universe to set the rules for living on his planet.

    The Revelation says that "new scrolls" will be opened to guide us in the future.

    Do you understand that JW's have no belief in life after death?....except by resurrection once the kingdom is established on earth. (Matthew 6:10)

    That means that we believe that our life will end and that our remains will stay where they are until we hear the call of Jesus to come out of our graves. (John 5:28-29) There will be no conscious existence between our death and resurrection, no matter how much time has elapsed. This is what the ancient Jews believed. (Ecclesiastes 9:5; 10)

    I have to agree with you on that score....but the ones who "colonised" the world were not "Christians" in any sense of the world. They may have thought of themselves that way, but I doubt Christ would ever have recognized them as such. Rather than being "no part of the world" as Jesus instructed, they went out and took parts of the world that belonged to others, treating the rightful owners with contempt and disrespect....even committing mass murder. How despicable!

    Missionaries who went to make "Christians" of the "savages" in other lands, did more damage than Jesus ever would have. He did not force Christianity on anyone, nor did he evict people from their own land and squeeze them onto small reservations, depriving them of their own land, liberty and culture. Again nothing "Christian" about that behavior.

    The fact that Jesus and the apostles kept the coming of the kingdom imminent in the minds of their listeners, has little to do with its actual timing. The fact is, God knew that the kingdom was still thousands of years away, but to indicate this, may well have caused many to lose heart having to wait so long for what they all longed for....unending life under Christ's rulership with no sickness, suffering or death. The end of all wickedness. (Revelation 21:2-4)

    The reality is, that no one has to wait for the blessings of the kingdom longer than their own lifetime. When the resurrection takes place, all will awaken as if they closed their eyes only a moment ago. Their hope will be realised, no matter how long they have "slept". That is a real blessing in itself IMO.

    Faith leads people in different directions. We put our faith where our heart is. A heart that belongs to God will stay with God, but a heart that strays, searching for selfish desires, will park in many places, never being satisfied with any of them for long. Their lives are often like a religious revolving door. Such people never feel settled or confident. (James 1:6-8)

    That is true in this present system of things.....but the Bible gives us hope for a wonderful future that will never end.

    The events in Eden prevent humans from enjoying everlasting life now, due to the sentence carried out for disobeying God's only negative command, (Romans 5:12)....living on forever is something that is the natural desire in all of us. No one who enjoys a reasonable quality of life wants to die. It is inbuilt in us to want to go on living, not growing old or getting sick and eventually dying. We are not supposed to look in the mirror or at a photograph and see someone we don't even recognise any more.

    Humans alone were given the opportunity to live forever....there was no everlasting life promised to any other creature. We were supposed to be the caretakers of all that the Creator made to live here on this Goldilocks planet......as custodians, we should be very ashamed. Thankfully God has had a purpose from the beginning that he will carry out at the end. (Isaiah 55:11)

    Nothing will be left in the hands of selfish humans....if it is, we are all doomed.
     
  9. Unveiled Artist

    Unveiled Artist Veteran Member

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    Ima come back to his later. Have you entertained the idea that there is no resurrection and replishening the earth?

    The context of the question is, have you entertained the idea nothing will exist....and everything coms to an end; nothing is eternal.

    I dont know anywhere I can experience, observe, and logically put together your beliefs outside the bible. Usually, when we understand something personally, we get an idea of how it applies to our life and our experiences. If it doesnt add up and/or doesnt exist in our reality as we know it, its internally means nothing.

    So, I will come back to this after my movie. Just keep in mind Im asking context-questions. Im not familar with JW view of scripture nor its history. Also, I didnt (or forgot) @URAVIP2ME wasnt a christian (as I know it). I figure christians have their various views; so, I go by whati is said. Denominations mix things up.
     
  10. URAVIP2ME

    URAVIP2ME Veteran Member

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    Even Adam stepping on a bug could see that death meant ceasing to exist.
    So, to me without God sending Jesus we'd be but dust forever.
     
  11. Deeje

    Deeje Avid Bible Student
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    Nope....it's not in me to even entertain the thought. I am inextricably tied to the Bible and it's author with my whole being.
    I believe that is a requirement for all who worship this God. I have never had to force myself to believe in him.

    No, never. I am not wired that way. Everything in me identifies with what the Bible says and I have never had reason to question its contents or the existence of the one who inspired its writers.

    Having a personal relationship with a real and living God is not easily explained to one without faith.

    If this is our only experience...then why do we humans collectively desire the eternity in peace an happiness that the Bible speaks about?

    I do not know for certain, but from what @URAVIP2ME posts, I believe he/she is one of Jehovah's Witnesses.....that means they are "Christian".
     
  12. Unveiled Artist

    Unveiled Artist Veteran Member

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    How you feel about being dust forever?
     
  13. Unveiled Artist

    Unveiled Artist Veteran Member

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    Hmm. I'm more of an imaginative person. I disagree god exist but I can make sense of it for conversation. There is a lot of things I can entertain (what if two and two is six) it reality is it equals four.

    My friend is more logical/mathematical minded and can't entertain fictional concepts. I don't feel religion is an exclusion to these examples.

    I don't think it's impossible, though. RF makes me go outside my thinking all the time. Some thought I was Christian when I first came. I wasn't raised christian but I'm not against christians in relation to their faith.

    So, there is choice involved. I do think you kinda get what I'm saying if you step out a bit to see in my and other people's shoes. Repeating points and scripture is fine but if you don't know your "enemy" (context), it's difficult to get anywhere noneless learn something g new
     
  14. Unveiled Artist

    Unveiled Artist Veteran Member

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    What would happen if you did (rather than asking if you could) entertain that idea?
     
  15. Unveiled Artist

    Unveiled Artist Veteran Member

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    Hm. When I mention things ending, I mean it as a fact.

    So, when we accept this fact of life, we no longer hope for things that we cant see is true (no longer have faith) but you are or become secured in the idea of nonexistance. Thinking like this makes purpose more of a present focus not a future one. You live in your experience not hope for a better one. Wisdom over faith or knowledge.

    Im no where near that far but after all my experiences, thinking of anything else is a distraction to acceptance. Im not that old and live with elders but then I see elders have so much faith it saves their lives. So, I understand why you couldnt entertain the idea seriously. How do you converse with others and learn something if you purposely stay in your own viewpoint?

    For example, a child may make the mistake of believing he has nine fingers instead of ten. Going into his shoes is understanding how he came to that conclusion. It doesnt mean you are compromising your belief. It just means its not all about you (the parent). Once you get an idea of why he got nine, you have bette idea of how to corect him. If you throw out you-are-wrong all the time, the child learns nothing and the parent reinfirms his ego.
     
  16. Deeje

    Deeje Avid Bible Student
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    I can understand what its like to be an unbeliever as I have close relatives who are not believers, but their lives tell me that I don't want to be like them. They have no answers for anything and no hope for anything getting better that doesn't rest with those who have already proven that they don't care about any of us.

    I have a relationship with a living God who is directly involved with my life in so many meaningful ways......I wouldn't know where to begin to explain to someone who had no connection with him.

    It isn't a case of "wouldn't" but "couldn't" entertain the thought that he didn't exist...it would be like denying my own mother. He is the reason I breathe.

    Anyone who has ever lost a loved one in death knows what 'ending' means. Life ends.....there is no flow on to another dimension. I have lost two of the closest males in my life to death.....my husband and my father. Their deaths were the most final things I have ever felt....yet I am not without hope of seeing them again. This hope is given to me in the Bible. What it says is what I identify with in my heart......you may not. That is up to you.

    The planet has been around a very long time and I don't see it going anywhere any time soon.
    We have a purpose to fulfill here.

    Again that is very convoluted. My belief is very simple....God created everything...that is a basic truth that no one has ever proven false to me.
    He has a purpose for our being here, all outlined in the Bible. Again, what it says resonates with something inside me over which I have no say.

    I don't have to question that in which I have absolute confidence. The only ones who question are those who do not have faith....its not something you can order off eBay. You either build it like a wall, brick by brick, or you put it in the "too hard" basket and you have an empty space in your life where it should be. Bricks make strong walls....vacuums remain empty and have no purpose.

    Its not difficult to feel empathy when you spend your life helping others. I have had close contact with all kinds of people in my ministry and I see what they do, and understand how they think....and it sometimes makes me sad that some can't ever get out of their own 'fog' long enough to see the way ahead clearly, as I do. Confidence comes from knowing what you believe and why. I don't have to live it to understand it. Just like you don't need to eat garbage to know it tastes bad....

    Some have been victims of abuse or traumatized by some past experience. Others were not raised by loving parents and find it difficult to parent their own children because of poor role modeling. Some were handicapped by mental health issues, which, despite all efforts many cannot be healed in this system. Some were disadvantaged and just needed a hand up, not a hand out.Some were just looking for God and hadn't found him anywhere else.

    I found that those who had no spiritual direction from childhood are those who fought with the most doubt. I have dealt with other viewpoints for over 40 years. I understand them, but I don't hold them myself.

    I guess that all depends on the ego (self esteem) of the one reading the responses. Someone who can't be told isn't going to take kindly to any correction, so on an internet forum like this, the person with whom you are speaking has a few interested people standing behind them, listening to the conversation.....they might be the ones who are moved by the things being said rather than the one to whom the post is directed....we have no idea who is reading the comments here. Let them make up their own minds.....we each have something to teach them.

    Every conversation has food for thought helping people make decisions about all kinds of things.
     
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  17. Unveiled Artist

    Unveiled Artist Veteran Member

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    I guess I kinda understand. I can imagine my mother not being here without feeling internally convoluted. With my art, it is full self expression. You should see my apartment, I got stuff everywhere. Im glad I live alone or it would be even more of a mess. I can kinda imagine my being without it; and, if I did, it makes me more appreciative that I do have it.

    Likewise with god (or ones mother or wife). When you (not required) think of how you could or see them without, it really tells how they are important beyond, in my opinion, taking life for granted. A lot of things we say we know and then we are attached to it so much, when we look outside we get scared or uncomfortable. Its a natural human reaction. Its like telling you to hold your breathe. I can see that.

    On the other hand, I do think it is possible. Not because they are skeptics or dont know the truth, but because you know what you have when you experience the lost. The same thing with death. With that hope, its like believing your mother exist only because she says she is your mother. Many children grow up thinking their adopted mothers are biological mothers. So, it doesnt matter either way, just hope you see my point.

    I honestly got this far because my loved ones passed away. Some say she is in a better place. Heaven. Rebirth. Looking down on me. Its nice intent and on the other hand, I feel better just knowing she isnt here. Its death staring me in the face. The more I accept it, the more peace I would be.

    I can imagine there is a heaven or a replenished earth. Its not part of my reality, but I can entertain the thought. Is it that I want to is the key, not so much if I could-for me.

    Im jumping around reading your posts.
     
  18. Unveiled Artist

    Unveiled Artist Veteran Member

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    I think this is an example of my point. Entertaining the idea without god (or mother etc) is not being a skepting, compromising your faith, and so forth. Its very handy when you have empathy. My friend is not connected to art whatsoever. She doesnt like music! Nothing creative. Numbers. Logic. Things like that. Ive never been around anyone like that.

    But, I can see it in her shoes. Im not compromising or being a skeptic. I know who I am in my self expression. But then, as my friend, we dont speak the same language. If I want to understand her, should I just throw her crayons and cut the music to sooth her? Or find ways that she would understand and help her more? (Rethorical questions)

    There are different methods of showing empathy of course. In my opinion, stepping into the other persons shoes is a major foundation of it.
     
  19. URAVIP2ME

    URAVIP2ME Veteran Member

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    I am wondering how you feel about being dust before you were pro-created by your parents.
    Those who end up ' dust forever ' it will be as if they never existed.
     
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  20. Unveiled Artist

    Unveiled Artist Veteran Member

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    Yes. I mentioned how I felt and gratitude because of it. How do you feel about being dust?

    Im sure it makes a lot of people uncomfortable; hence, why we have so many beliefs.
     
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