Candidate faces 109 felony counts of voter fraud

[exchemist]

We are talking about opening a "new" method. So we can't establish a cause/effect in such short notice. The fact that it has been done means we should be more vigilant.

The hell we are.

 

[Shaul]

You've not demonstrated they aren't secure. You've cited attempted fraud and one case of mail dumping. Not examples where fraud made it through and did have an impact on the election.

They are less secure than in person ballots. That isn’t the question. The only question which remains is how much less secure they are.

There are many other cases. For example in the last New York Primary election 84,000 nail in ballots were disqualified. They wouldn’t have been if those ballots had been in person. 84,000 ballots could certainly affect an election.

 

[Shaul]

The incidence of mail voting fraud has been gone over at great length, by the Federal Electoral Commission. It is adamant that it is not a significant problem. Catching one crook does not alter that, however comically people wave it about in indignation.

Risk of US mail-in voter fraud is minuscule

Forget it. Trump is now barking mad and on his way out.

"California is gonna have to ration water. You wanna know why? Because they send millions of gallons of water out to sea, out to the Pacific. Because they want to take care of certain little tiny fish, that aren't doing very well without water." -- Trump

Unfortunately fraud isn’t the only question. There are mail ballots that get destroyed, lost, and disqualified. Specifically because of error prone vote by mail procedures. None of those apply when voting in person.

Mail ballots are also subject to coercion. Nefarious person can and do coopt the ballots of victims. It happens. It extent may be debated.

 

[SkepticThinker]

Yay! One case! We can finally prove it's happening Nationwide, in massive numbers.... Finally.

And, the guy was caught in the act!

 

[exchemist]

Unfortunately fraud isn’t the only question. There are mail ballots that get destroyed, lost, and disqualified. Specifically because of error prone vote by mail procedures. None of those apply when voting in person.

Mail ballots are also subject to coercion. Nefarious person can and do coopt the ballots of victims. It happens. It extent may be debated.

Its extent has been considered and dismissed, by the Federal Election Commission.

One would sort of imagine they would know, if anyone does.

One person with no clue - at all - will be Donald Trump. But then facts have never interested him. He thinks California has a water crisis because it is pumping its water into the sea to help the fish.

 

[SkepticThinker]

I dont think voter fraud is exclusive to one party or another. Most astuite people will know voter fraud will be prevalent across party lines.

I'm sure more such things will crop up in the future.

The good news is whenever those people get caught, it will be one less to worry about in gumming up the works.

Personally I'd rather see a physical paper trail like mail in as opposed to electronic voting all the same.

From what I understand after speaking to some people who live in states like Colorado where they've had mail-in voting for some time, they can actually go home after they've voted and actually check their ballot to make sure it was recorded. That seems like a pretty good paper trail to me.

 

[metis]

M.I.T. and the conservative organization Heritage Foundation, both using long-term studies, determined that mail voting fraud consisted of being an extremely small fraction of well under 1%.

It's a shame that some people so blindly swallow what Trump & Co are hyping, and yet Trump has encouraged mail-in voting in states that tend to vote Republican most of the time.

 

[QuestioningMind]

A Carrollton mayoral candidate was in custody Thursday after being arrested on charges of mail ballot fraud, according to the Texas Attorney General’s Office.

Zul Mirza Mohamed, 39, was taken into custody on Wednesday and he remained in the Denton County Jail on Thursday. A bond has not been set for the Carrollton resident. Carrollton is about 40 miles northeast of Fort Worth.

https://www.star-telegram.com/news/local/crime/article246313825.html

His scheme relied on mail ballots.

I guess it isn't nearly as easy to successfully cheat by mail as the Republicans would have you think.

 

[metis]

I guess it isn't nearly as easy to successfully cheat by mail as the Republicans would have you think.

And if one did, they would have to be almost 100% nuts. They risk is being arrested and charged with a felony, and then for what: one vote that is unlikely to determine the election?

 

[Jayhawker Soule]

M.I.T. and the conservative organization Heritage Foundation, both using long-term studies, determined that mail voting fraud consisted of being an extremely small fraction of well under 1%.

It's a shame that some people so blindly swallow what Trump & Co are hyping, and yet Trump has encouraged mail-in voting in states that tend to vote Republican most of the time.

Perhaps we need a Bootlickers DIR.

 

[Shadow Wolf]

They are less secure than in person ballots. That isn’t the question. The only question which remains is how much less secure they are.

There are many other cases. For example in the last New York Primary election 84,000 nail in ballots were disqualified. They wouldn’t have been if those ballots had been in person. 84,000 ballots could certainly affect an election.

That's not as issue with fraud or insecure voting systems. It's a problem with instruction and communication in how to do a mail in ballot. It's not good, but it's grasping at straws to use it to justify the claim they are less secure. Much like how a USPS carrier dumbing mail doesn't support your claim. Just like a ballot stuffer getting caught doesn't support your claim.

 

[Tambourine]

Personally I'd rather see a physical paper trail like mail in as opposed to electronic voting all the same.

In most systems, it's actually far easier to hide a physical paper trail than an electronic one.

 

[Shaul]

M.I.T. and the conservative organization Heritage Foundation, both using long-term studies, determined that mail voting fraud consisted of being an extremely small fraction of well under 1%.

It's a shame that some people so blindly swallow what Trump & Co are hyping, and yet Trump has encouraged mail-in voting in states that tend to vote Republican most of the time.

The security of the vote is vital to our Democracy. The onus is on those advocating vote by mail to prove it is secure. Not the other way around. Vote by mail can not guarantee that coercion and corruption can not happen. It lacks safeguards against them.

 

[Tambourine]

The security of the vote is vital to our Democracy. The onus is on those advocating vote by mail to prove it is secure. Not the other way around. Vote by mail can not guarantee that coercion and corruption can not happen. It lacks safeguards against them.

Physical voting cannot guarantee a total absence of coercion and corruption, either.

 

[Shaul]

Physical voting cannot guarantee a total absence of coercion and corruption, either.

Yes it can. It isn’t a perfect guarantee but is vastly better than mail balloting. In person polling places are public facilities with security. They are free from campaigning. A person voting in person is alone in the booth. There is no one there with the voter to coerce or intimidate them.

None of those safeguards are guaranteed for those voting by mail.

It isn’t even close. Voting by person is much more secure than by mail.

 

[Tambourine]

Yes it can. It isn’t a perfect guarantee but is vastly better than mail balloting.

That's an unsupported assertion.

In person polling places are public facilities with security. They are free from campaigning. A person voting in person is alone in the booth. There is no one there with the voter to coerce or intimidate them.

There have been plenty of instances of voter intimidation outside voting booths, voters being kept from voting, ballot stations in certain areas closing early without prior announcements etc. How were those not a form of vote manipulation?

 

[metis]

The security of the vote is vital to our Democracy. The onus is on those advocating vote by mail to prove it is secure.

It already has been but you rejected it in order to swallow the the propaganda by this administration.

Nothing is ever 100%, and the hypocrisy of this administration is that they have been encouraging mail-in voting in some states ["red"] but not others.

 

[Tambourine]

How do the ill and the elderly get to exercise their voting rights in America, if not by mail?