Cancel culture and hero worship

[SomeRandom]

I wasn’t always fully onboard with the so called cancel culture. Insofar as I thought the best way to expose horrible ideologies was to essentially give them enough rope to hang themselves with. But perhaps I was too naive. Too ill informed about the subtle rhetorical devices some can use. Name and shame them might be better, I don’t know. I know my country certainly cancelled some umm “public figures” from giving a circuit tour. The since disgraced Milo, for instance.

Maybe we need some form of “cancel culture” not just to de platform hurtful ideologues, but also just to keep us more aware of our own impact we have by supporting or diminishing the “problematic” acts of certain celebrities or authority figures of mothers or what have you. Because as a society (or rather societies, since many of you are probably American) we do love to hero worship celebrities and “certain authorities” too much.
I guess I didn’t really understand how detrimental a person with a large following could really be.

Recently a certain (used to be) beloved children’s author belied some “TERF” sympathies. I didn’t think that much of it at first. Problematic faves going to err be problematic, I guess. But seeing how hurt and excluded a lot of the fandom felt, I kind of felt compelled to join them in “cancelling” said author out of my life. I will still be a fan, but in an act of solidarity, I have ceased my support of said author.
In saying that, it was yet another demonstration of just how high of a pedestal a lot of us tend to put celebrities and perhaps even other feminists on. And I don’t know how healthy that is.

The author was Rowling, just for clarity’s sake. And on the subject of clarity, TERF is of course referring to Trans Exclusive Radical Feminists, but I was using it in a more casual manner. Since I don’t know if Ms Rowling is a feminist, radical or otherwise.

But what do you guys think of cancel culture? And do you have any criticisms of it?

 

[Stevicus]

But what do you guys think of cancel culture? And do you have any criticisms of it?

It was a term I had to look up.

Call-out culture - Wikipedia

Call-out culture (also known as outrage culture) is a form of public shaming that aims to hold individuals and groups accountable for their actions by calling attention to behavior that is perceived to be problematic, usually on social media.[1] A variant of the term, cancel culture, describes a form of boycott in which someone (usually a celebrity) who has shared a questionable or unpopular opinion, or has had behavior in their past that is perceived to be either offensive or problematic called out on social media is "canceled"; they are completely boycotted by many of their followers or supporters, often leading to massive declines in celebrities' (almost always social media personalities) careers and fanbase.[2][3]

Well, of course, people can boycott anyone or anything they want. If students at a university want to protest or petition their administrators to block an appearance by some controversial figure, then I guess it's up to them.

I don't know if it really does any good, though. It just creates more echo chambers.

 

[Shadow Wolf]

As far as I understand this "cancel culture," it may as well be called "bury your head in the sand and pretend it'll go away on it's own" culture.

 

[Shadow Wolf]

It was a term I had to look up.

Call-out culture - Wikipedia



Well, of course, people can boycott anyone or anything they want. If students at a university want to protest or petition their administrators to block an appearance by some controversial figure, then I guess it's up to them.

I don't know if it really does any good, though. It just creates more echo chambers.

An article I read somewhat recently was discussing that for high schoolers, it can mean being "canceled," or basically ignored by peers, with or without explaining why. It also mentioned that people must be called out for misgenderimg some regardless of context. Which is extremely problematic because context and intention are everything.

 

[Stevicus]

An article I read somewhat recently was discussing that for high schoolers, it can mean being "canceled," or basically ignored by peers, with or without explaining why. It also mentioned that people must be called out for misgenderimg some regardless of context. Which is extremely problematic because context and intention are everything.

I think we called it the "silent treatment" back when I was in school. Seemed kind of silly, looking back. I remember when I was in 5th grade, a couple of classmates were mad at me about something, so they pretended like I didn't exist. It lasted for about a day or two.

 

[Shadow Wolf]

I think we called it the "silent treatment" back when I was in school. Seemed kind of silly, looking back. I remember when I was in 5th grade, a couple of classmates were mad at me about something, so they pretended like I didn't exist. It lasted for about a day or two.

What i read of was longer than that, to the point some targets suffered detrimental effects of it, such as social anxieties and withdrawal. Those things aren't good.

 

[Jesuslightoftheworld]

I wasn’t always fully onboard with the so called cancel culture. Insofar as I thought the best way to expose horrible ideologies was to essentially give them enough rope to hang themselves with. But perhaps I was too naive. Too ill informed about the subtle rhetorical devices some can use. Name and shame them might be better, I don’t know. I know my country certainly cancelled some umm “public figures” from giving a circuit tour. The since disgraced Milo, for instance.

Maybe we need some form of “cancel culture” not just to de platform hurtful ideologues, but also just to keep us more aware of our own impact we have by supporting or diminishing the “problematic” acts of certain celebrities or authority figures of mothers or what have you. Because as a society (or rather societies, since many of you are probably American) we do love to hero worship celebrities and “certain authorities” too much.
I guess I didn’t really understand how detrimental a person with a large following could really be.

Recently a certain (used to be) beloved children’s author belied some “TERF” sympathies. I didn’t think that much of it at first. Problematic faves going to err be problematic, I guess. But seeing how hurt and excluded a lot of the fandom felt, I kind of felt compelled to join them in “cancelling” said author out of my life. I will still be a fan, but in an act of solidarity, I have ceased my support of said author.
In saying that, it was yet another demonstration of just how high of a pedestal a lot of us tend to put celebrities and perhaps even other feminists on. And I don’t know how healthy that is.

The author was Rowling, just for clarity’s sake. And on the subject of clarity, TERF is of course referring to Trans Exclusive Radical Feminists, but I was using it in a more casual manner. Since I don’t know if Ms Rowling is a feminist, radical or otherwise.

But what do you guys think of cancel culture? And do you have any criticisms of it?

.

Wow, I like this concept because I am a Christian but I am die hard superhero movie fan. I love The Advengers and The Transformers! However, I feel as though I am kind of worshipping a false idol. My son and I discuss how the world always loves the hero and then we remind each other that there is and will always be only one true hero; Jesus Christ. I wonder if I should cancel that culture in our lives. Thanks for that!

 

[Shadow Wolf]

I couldn't find the article I was referencing earlier, but I found these. One about the negatives, especially how it provides for little to no room for growth, and Obama explaining that it's not activism.
Youthsplaining: Everything You Need to Know About Cancel Culture - InsideHook

You may have heard the term “cancel culture” pop up just last week when comedian Sarah Silverman said on an episode of “The Bill Simmons Podcast” that she thought “cancel culture” should itself be canceled, adding that social shaming is “really scary” and referring to the whole thing as “righteousness porn.” Silverman was fired from a movie recently, after a 2007 photo of her in blackface resurfaced, even though she has since apologized for the photo, going so far as to draw attention to it in an interview for GQ last year. The comedian argued on the podcast that cancel culture leaves no room for growth. “I’m not saying, ‘Don’t hold me accountable,’ ” she said. “I held myself accountable. I can’t erase that I did that, but I can only be changed forever and do what I can to make it right for the rest of my life.”
...
But then many have also brought up that the mob-mentality of cancel culture can be toxic, and as Sarah Silverman pointed out, these mass social media campaigns against a person can actually hinder them from growing and learning from their mistakes. Instead of “canceling” them, we should be educating them.
...
Many have argued that cancel culture exists only in the Twitter bubble. It can seem as if a celeb’s entire existence is finished when thousands of users start hashtagging “___IsOverParty,” but in the real world, it might not even cross people’s minds. Which might be why bigger name celebs have an easier time bouncing back from scandals, and why YouTubers and Instagram influencers whose businesses and brands live solely in the realm of the internet are more often the subjects of cancelation campaigns — and have a harder time bouncing back.

https://www.washingtonpost.com/vide...5cd7af-5709-457a-8ca5-a5d258cf3dd0_video.html

 

[Stevicus]

I couldn't find the article I was referencing earlier, but I found these. One about the negatives, especially how it provides for little to no room for growth, and Obama explaining that it's not activism.
Youthsplaining: Everything You Need to Know About Cancel Culture - InsideHook

https://www.washingtonpost.com/vide...5cd7af-5709-457a-8ca5-a5d258cf3dd0_video.html

It seems like it's a form of political correctness on steroids. I agree with Obama that "it's not activism," since PC was never about activism in the first place. True activism is risky and dangerous. True activism means being willing to face police dogs, fire hoses, tear gas, and possibly even being gunned down by National Guard troops. It means holding an unpopular view and being willing to take the heat for it. That's what the oft-maligned "Boomers" did, but today's youth don't even come close to anything like that.

This "cancel culture" seems almost the exact opposite. It holds to the current popular view that's already well-established within public policy and the political culture, and it attacks those who express extremely unpopular views and are, essentially, "easy targets." It doesn't require a great deal of bravery or political backbone. It's mainly a glorified version of "going along with the crowd" and succumbing to peer pressure just for its own sake. Today's youth seem far more risk-averse and unwilling to rock the boat.

The closest today's youth ever came to genuine political activism was Occupy Wall Street, but even that fizzled out rather quickly.

 

[SomeRandom]

.

Wow, I like this concept because I am a Christian but I am die hard superhero movie fan. I love The Advengers and The Transformers! However, I feel as though I am kind of worshipping a false idol. My son and I discuss how the world always loves the hero and then we remind each other that there is and will always be only one true hero; Jesus Christ. I wonder if I should cancel that culture in our lives. Thanks for that!

Well I mean, you do you. Liking or wanting to emulate a Superhero doesn’t mean you worship them though. The purpose of a superhero is to be a loose moral guide for children. They’re supposed to be somewhat inspiration and aspirational. Hero worshipping celebrities behind the people on screen is probably unhealthy though

 

[SomeRandom]

It was a term I had to look up.

Call-out culture - Wikipedia



Well, of course, people can boycott anyone or anything they want. If students at a university want to protest or petition their administrators to block an appearance by some controversial figure, then I guess it's up to them.

I don't know if it really does any good, though. It just creates more echo chambers.

True. But I wonder if this is actually a new phenomenon or if the youth are just doing what capitalism has taught them. And because they are more aware than ever of their buying choices, are just experimenting with that.
I mean whenever a celebrity is caught in a scandal, they can either fade into obscurity or make a comeback after a cooling off period. Society has canceled people like Kevin Spacy, Epstein and Jared “the subway guy.” Society will always come to the defence of companies picking and choosing who associates with their brand in the public eye. Capitalism has employed cancel culture just as a byproduct of PR.
People seem to want more ethical choices in their consumerism. We learnt that from the Boomers before us. Or at least the hippy variety. Kids see that and do their own version, emulating the culture around them. Sometimes that goes too far or is misplaced. But at the same time, that’s to be expected. They’re kids who are still learning.

 

[Shadow Wolf]

The purpose of a superhero is to be a loose moral guide for children.

Too bad more people didnt get that memo, and instead we have tons of adults looking to children's stories and comic books for those things.

 

[SomeRandom]

Too bad more people didnt get that memo, and instead we have tons of adults looking to children's stories and comic books for those things.

Nostalgia mixed with other factors, perhaps?

 

[Shadow Wolf]

Nostalgia mixed with other factors, perhaps?

From what I've gathered, people refusing to grow up and take on things more suitable for their age. Some comics like X Men can be wonderful tools to help children learn about social issues, minority issues, fitting in amd being different. But adults saying its how they learn about those things, from the "great writing" in comics? Indulgence and simple things are fine, but adults shouod be learning about the real Dr. King and Malcolm X by reading about them and what they wrote, not the simplified versions found in Charles Xavier and Magneto. Material and literature about AIDs amd the gay community, not picture books.

 

[Stevicus]

True. But I wonder if this is actually a new phenomenon or if the youth are just doing what capitalism has taught them. And because they are more aware than ever of their buying choices, are just experimenting with that.
I mean whenever a celebrity is caught in a scandal, they can either fade into obscurity or make a comeback after a cooling off period. Society has canceled people like Kevin Spacy, Epstein and Jared “the subway guy.” Society will always come to the defence of companies picking and choosing who associates with their brand in the public eye. Capitalism has employed cancel culture just as a byproduct of PR.
People seem to want more ethical choices in their consumerism. We learnt that from the Boomers before us. Or at least the hippy variety. Kids see that and do their own version, emulating the culture around them. Sometimes that goes too far or is misplaced. But at the same time, that’s to be expected. They’re kids who are still learning.

Sometimes I wonder if capitalists are directing the "cancel culture" from behind the scenes. It seems that the ones who are targeted on the basis of ethics are people who are either expendable or those nobody ever really cared about anyway. Other boycotts, such as against companies which are associated with sweatshops, don't seem to fare as well. And there have been some ethical concerns about the big social media companies, but would they ever boycott them?

 

[Stevicus]

Too bad more people didnt get that memo, and instead we have tons of adults looking to children's stories and comic books for those things.

And Star Trek, too.

 

[Shadow Wolf]

And Star Trek, too.

What of it?

 

[Stevicus]

What of it?

Nothing, except it seemed to be similar to comic books and children stories in terms of being a loose moral guide.

 

[Shadow Wolf]

Nothing, except it seemed to be similar to comic books and children stories in terms of being a loose moral guide.

Its going off topic, but a quick comment is Star Trek is abit more than a childs level due to it presenting ethical and moral positions that are deeper than the simplistic black and white morality featured in many comic books (or Star Wars, for that matter). But, still better to read the philosophers amd other sources Star Trek borrows from to better grasp the ideas presented.

 

[SomeRandom]

Sometimes I wonder if capitalists are directing the "cancel culture" from behind the scenes. It seems that the ones who are targeted on the basis of ethics are people who are either expendable or those nobody ever really cared about anyway. Other boycotts, such as against companies which are associated with sweatshops, don't seem to fare as well. And there have been some ethical concerns about the big social media companies, but would they ever boycott them?

Perhaps. Capitalists will follow the money. If people were more tolerant of racists, there’d be fewer boycott’s of companies or people who espoused racist like rhetoric.
So I don’t know if they care that much about ethical values, just what ethical values are socially acceptable today