• Welcome to Religious Forums, a friendly forum to discuss all religions in a friendly surrounding.

    Your voice is missing! You will need to register to get access to the following site features:
    • Reply to discussions and create your own threads.
    • Our modern chat room. No add-ons or extensions required, just login and start chatting!
    • Access to private conversations with other members.

    We hope to see you as a part of our community soon!

Can you eat meat and be Buddhist ?

Osal

Active Member
namaskaram



one thing my husband cant understand , and I dont realy understand either , ..is how upset I get when someone cuts down a tree , I am usualy mild mannered and dont hate any one , ...untill they needlessly cut a tree , we had an ancient yew in our church yard I tried to get everyone to realise how special it was and to look after it , ....I did hours and hours of volentary work in the church yard trying to clear brabbles and ivy to let theese beautifull trees breathe , and look after the existing wild flower population , .....I tried to get a team together to do it properly without poisonous weedkillers and slash and burn mentality , ....but the neat bregade came in and with strimmers and chain saws and just masacred the place , ...I cant even speak to these people any more , .....some human beings are totaly loathesome , ....

even as a vegan I can more easily accept someone living on a farm or in the forest who eats a rabit out of need , than I can a misserable Ba****d who cuts down a tree for no good reason , ....

Rant over , .....

I can't remember the last time I saw someone cut down a tree just for the hell of it. There's always been a reason.

What have you seen?

I can see someone getting upset when an animal dies needlessly, but a tree? There could be a a lot reasons to cut a tree down and every one of the valid and useful.

Allowing oneself to get upset over it, is perhaps a bit obsessive.
 
Last edited:

ratikala

Istha gosthi
I can't remember the last time I saw someone cut down a tree just for the hell of it. There's always been a reason.

What have you seen?

sadly the tree was begining to get strangled by ivy , we were trying to get a good conservation plan going so I had suggested cutting the ivy stems when they die they fall out naturaly but it lessens the weight on the tree canopy , if you dont do it the ivy will weigh down the branches and split the tree , we are talking about a yew tree possiblt 1000 years old , I think a tree like that deserves due care and respect , ....but would any one listen , ...no instead they just hacked some other things about a bit made a general mess but egnored the yew and the conservation plan , in the winter it split , ...so instead of carfull cuttind back and proping which is the best thing to do with a tree of that age they just came in and butchered it , it was not quite dead last time I saw it but it made me so angry that I am not getting involved any more or doing any voluntary conservation work for animals like this , ....

I can see someone getting upset when an animal dies needlessly, but a tree? There could be a a lot reasons to cut a tree down and every one of the valid and useful.

the usefull and valid reason these guys had was purely selfish , ....if we cut down the tree we can have the fire wood , .... so sadly my summing up of these guys , ..too lazy to do anything responcible , ...., too selfish to think of any one but them selves , ...and too greedy to get their fat hands on some free fire wood , .....

Allowing oneself to get upset over it, is perhaps a bit obsessive.

there are times when I do get angry , and that is when people behave worse than animals , ...at least animals only take what they need to survive , .....they dont have the need to desimate nature unless it is for food and shelter , ....

and please remember that trees house birds and other insects , in this case it was a very ancient tree , which sheltered quite a bit of wild life , .....

I dont think I am over reacting , ...I just wish that people who disslike trees and wild life shouldnt come and live in the countryside , ...I some how think that there are thousands of people who live in cities who would realy love to be so lucky as to live in such a beautifull enviroment , .....I just get a little upset at those who dont apreciate how lucky they are , ...
 

Jainarayan

ॐ नमो भगवते वासुदेवाय
Staff member
Premium Member
another Dilema , ....

there are rats that get in our atic , ...I cant kill them , they just want to over winter in the warm , ....I dont want them in the house though , .....I just have to look at it as my fault for having a nice warm house , and be vigilant about blocling any entry ....thats what you get if you live in the country , .....critters everywhere !

Their droppings can carry some nasty pathogens. Do everything you can to keep them out. If you know anyone who has a cat (or if you do), dump the used cat litter near an entrance(s) you suspect the rats or mice are using. Another deterrent is snake scat. But I think used cat litter is easier to get than walking into a pet store and saying "I'd like 5 lbs of snake crap, please". :D
 

Jainarayan

ॐ नमो भगवते वासुदेवाय
Staff member
Premium Member
I can't remember the last time I saw someone cut down a tree just for the hell of it. There's always been a reason.

What have you seen?

I can see someone getting upset when an animal dies needlessly, but a tree? There could be a a lot reasons to cut a tree down and every one of the valid and useful.

Allowing oneself to get upset over it, is perhaps a bit obsessive.

Don't forget to ask the land spirits' permission to cut down the tree, and explain why you're cutting it down.
 

Jainarayan

ॐ नमो भगवते वासुदेवाय
Staff member
Premium Member
critters invading the home are always a dilemma. Around here, it's possible that mice can carry hantavirus. Squirrels are known to carry plague. Raccoons can have rabies as can skunks. If animals like that, get into the attic or crawlspaces it cab be a dangerours them-or-us proposition. There are humane solutions in some cases but not all.

Tell me about it. $2500 last year to have raccoons and squirrels humanely trapped and relocated from my attic. Around here it's illegal (not to mention dangerous) to trap and release them yourself, so you need a professional. When people do trap them, they don't release them into a wild area or far enough away, so the raccoons come back, and they've learned they've been trapped. It becomes harder to outsmart them.
 

ratikala

Istha gosthi
namaskaram Thorbjorn ji

Their droppings can carry some nasty pathogens. Do everything you can to keep them out. If you know anyone who has a cat (or if you do), dump the used cat litter near an entrance(s) you suspect the rats or mice are using. Another deterrent is snake scat. But I think used cat litter is easier to get than walking into a pet store and saying "I'd like 5 lbs of snake crap, please". :D

I only wish I knew how they were getting in ???
but some one from one of the farms said they can just run up drainpipes and get in under the eaves and into the roofspace , ...occaisonaly one gets in the house and we have to use the humane traps then drive them a very long way away from habitation , ...

A lot of people here keep cats , ..we dont , but I am begining to understand why they keep them , ....do dogs deter them ?

at the moment we are trying those sonic deterents apparently they work on a frequency which is anoyingly audiable to the rat but not to us , .....and I havent heard so much running arround in the roof just lately .
 

Jainarayan

ॐ नमो भगवते वासुदेवाय
Staff member
Premium Member
namaskaram Thorbjorn ji



I only wish I knew how they were getting in ???
but some one from one of the farms said they can just run up drainpipes and get in under the eaves and into the roofspace , ...occaisonaly one gets in the house and we have to use the humane traps then drive them a very long way away from habitation , ...

A lot of people here keep cats , ..we dont , but I am begining to understand why they keep them , ....do dogs deter them ?

at the moment we are trying those sonic deterents apparently they work on a frequency which is anoyingly audiable to the rat but not to us , .....and I havent heard so much running arround in the roof just lately .

They can get in the house in the most unbelievable ways and smallest openings. They can climb and jump like nobody's business. Even a raccoon can shimmy up a drain pipe. My drain pipes had the paw prints to prove it. My trapper said he saw one at another job hanging by one arm and rip the soffet from under the eaves to get in. He stood there with his mouth open. I don't know if dogs are as much of a deterrent as cats are.
 

ratikala

Istha gosthi
one year we had rooks trying to peck holes in the soffits to get in , I'd got up early and was quietly reading I could hear this loud resounding drumming noise , I couldnt work out where it was coming from , then I noticed that they had tried to get in a small broken edge , but I think it was too small for them and I think they went back to their favorite occupation of trying to block up everyones chimneys , ....
 

Osal

Active Member
sadly the tree was begining to get strangled by ivy , we were trying to get a good conservation plan going so I had suggested cutting the ivy stems when they die they fall out naturaly but it lessens the weight on the tree canopy , if you dont do it the ivy will weigh down the branches and split the tree , we are talking about a yew tree possiblt 1000 years old , I think a tree like that deserves due care and respect , ....but would any one listen , ...no instead they just hacked some other things about a bit made a general mess but egnored the yew and the conservation plan , in the winter it split , ...so instead of carfull cuttind back and proping which is the best thing to do with a tree of that age they just came in and butchered it , it was not quite dead last time I saw it but it made me so angry that I am not getting involved any more or doing any voluntary conservation work for animals like this , ...?



the usefull and valid reason these guys had was purely selfish , ....if we cut down the tree we can have the fire wood , .... so sadly my summing up of these guys , ..too lazy to do anything responcible , ...., too selfish to think of any one but them selves , ...and too greedy to get their fat hands on some free fire wood , .....



there are times when I do get angry , and that is when people behave worse than animals , ...at least animals only take what they need to survive , .....they dont have the need to desimate nature unless it is for food and shelter , ....

and please remember that trees house birds and other insects , in this case it was a very ancient tree , which sheltered quite a bit of wild life , .....

I dont think I am over reacting , ...I just wish that people who disslike trees and wild life shouldnt come and live in the countryside , ...I some how think that there are thousands of people who live in cities who would realy love to be so lucky as to live in such a beautifull enviroment , .....I just get a little upset at those who dont apreciate how lucky they are , ...

I wouldn't be so quick to laud the nobility of animals. Ive seen trees dropped by beaver where less than a quarter of the wood was usefull to them. a 75-year old cottonwood gone. I've seen wolf kills where 3/4 of the carcass was left to rot. I've also seen where a wolf killed a coyote and just left the carcass.

Don't be so quick to condemn others. They have a different way of looking at things and in their view a dead or dying tree is of more value as firewood. It's wonderfull to see old growth, but not everyone shares our sensibility. Getting upset, only makes matters worse. Relax a little. You'll live a longer happier life.
 

ratikala

Istha gosthi
namaskaram , ....
I wouldn't be so quick to laud the nobility of animals. Ive seen trees dropped by beaver where less than a quarter of the wood was usefull to them. a 75-year old cottonwood gone. I've seen wolf kills where 3/4 of the carcass was left to rot. I've also seen where a wolf killed a coyote and just left the carcass.

OK lets re phrase that , ...''the majority of animals only take what they need to survive , ''.....

unlike humans a large majority of which are a bit more excessive when it comes to striping the enviroment of anything they deem usefull , ....that I term as greed and wrong livlihood , ...an animal dosent have to live by the eight fold path , however being born as a human being we should at least respect the Dharma that we are fortunate to have come in contact with , ....

but as it looks like you are going to argue this one out for ever and a day to defend your own oppinion , ... good luck to you , ...you just carry on doing what you want , you know the concequences as regards to Karma , ....


Don't be so quick to condemn others. They have a different way of looking at things and in their view a dead or dying tree is of more value as firewood. It's wonderfull to see old growth, but not everyone shares our sensibility. Getting upset, only makes matters worse. Relax a little. You'll live a longer happier life.

in all honesty I am probably alot more relaxed than most people about many things , ....but sometimes it is worth letting rip , there is no point just sitting there being chilled out saying ''Im allright jack'' whilst the idiots destroy the place for future generations and for the wild life that canot speak for it self , .....this is not responcible human behavior , ...

this is however a conversation about ethics , ...so dont expect there not to be opinions , ...
the real crunch here is the issue of responciblity , if I want to comment on un nececary and un etical behavior this is the place to do it , ....I dont see the point of just sitting back and not rasing objections , that is not responcible behavior , but what realy matters is that we try to do the right thing without getting undely attatched to the outcome , ...otherwise yes you can become emotionaly envolved and suffer needlessly ,....
 

psychoslice

Veteran Member
I see myself as a Buddha, not a Buddhist, and I see also that nothing dies or nothing is born, that is what a Buddhist is.
 

Rick O'Shez

Irishman bouncing off walls
Actually, diet isn't that big of a deal in real world Buddhism.

In the real world each Buddhist tradition has their own view on this question. It becomes contentious when people from different traditions start discussing different views, which tends to happen more online.
 

Rick O'Shez

Irishman bouncing off walls
I see myself as a Buddha, not a Buddhist, and I see also that nothing dies or nothing is born, that is what a Buddhist is.

How do you mean "nothing dies or nothing is born"? In practical terms lots of cows and pigs die to meet humans' dietary preferences.
 

Rick O'Shez

Irishman bouncing off walls
An interesting perspective here: http://www.sciencedaily.com/releases/2015/05/150518121442.htm

The 4Ns described are quite familiar from debates like this.

A common fifth excuse on Buddhist forums is that not eating meat doesn't eliminate suffering, though actually this is a straw-man because it does considerably reduce the suffering caused. A variation on this is the argument that plants experience pain too, though in fact there is no evidence that plants feel pain in the way that animals do.
 
Last edited by a moderator:

illykitty

RF's pet cat
An interesting perspective here: http://www.sciencedaily.com/releases/2015/05/150518121442.htm

The 4Ns described are quite familiar from debates like this.

A common fifth excuse on Buddhist forums is that not eating meat doesn't eliminate suffering, though actually this is a straw-man because it does considerably reduce the suffering caused. A variation on this is the argument that plants experience pain too, though in fact there is no evidence that plants feel pain in the way that animals do.

Plus let's suppose plants do feel pain, you reduce the suffering by eating vegetarian, because a meat diet consume a vast amount more plants than just eating them directly. It's a very easily debunked view, requires little thought, if you know about the vast quantity of resources necessary for meat production. If the person cared so much about plants, they wouldn't be saying this.
 
Top