Can You Do Me a 'Solid?' Would It Really 'Matter?'

[SalixIncendium]

Well that type of instinctive love is a product of evolution. Evolution has basically programmed us in such a way as to insure the survival of our species. Our brains are chemically programmed to respond in certain ways to insure our survival. So I would say that type of love is chemical as well. Do you get physical feelings or emotions when you are around someone you love? That is a sure sign that what you are feeling is in fact a physical, material interaction of sorts.

Evolution is a scientific theory. While it explains what is physical and material, it, in and of it self, is neither.

Unless you can tell me specifically what chemical produces instinctive love and why, wouldn't this just be conjecture?

 

[Runewolf1973]

Evolution is a scientific theory. While it explains what is physical and material, it, in and of it self, is neither.

Unless you can tell me specifically what chemical produces instinctive love and why, wouldn't this just be conjecture?

If you did some reading you would see that this is not just conjecture. There is evidence that oxytocin levels in the brain directly correlate with our feelings of love and nurturing. Being compassionate produces a chemical response in the body which in turns makes us want to be even more compassionate. Go eat a chocolate bar.

As far as the "why", I already told you this... Evolution has programmed us with these chemical responses as part of our need to survive and procreate.

 

[URAVIP2ME]

What material is love made of?

I suppose that depends on what is one's definition of love.
The Greeks I think had four words for love:
1 - agape - principled love
2 - storge - family love
3 - philia - brotherly love
4 - eros - sexual love
Godly love is based on the qualities, or the attributes, as listed and defined at 1 Corinthians 13:4-6.
Galatians 5:22-23 also speaks of the fruit of God's spirit listing cultivating those qualities or attributes.
So, facets of physical love are made of flesh or fleshly material, other facets of love are developed and made of spiritual qualities.

 

[URAVIP2ME]

If you did some reading you would see that this is not just conjecture. There is evidence that oxytocin levels in the brain directly correlate with our feelings of love and nurturing. Being compassionate produces a chemical response in the body which in turns makes us want to be even more compassionate. Go eat a chocolate bar.
As far as the "why", I already told you this... Evolution has programmed us with these chemical responses as part of our need to survive and procreate.

If a serial killer eats a chocolate bar would enough chocolate bars make him more compassionate.
To me I would think one's conscience ( or lack of it ) enters into the picture.
Unless damaged, we all come equipped with an inborn conscience.
Conscience is why the people of the nations know it is wrong to murder, steal, etc.

 

[Runewolf1973]

If a serial killer eats a chocolate bar would enough chocolate bars make him more compassionate.
To me I would think one's conscience ( or lack of it ) enters into the picture.
Unless damaged, we all come equipped with an inborn conscience.
Conscience is why the people of the nations know it is wrong to murder, steal, etc.

Once again, you should do some reading on that. That inborn consciousness is in fact an evolutionary trait. We are programmed to work together for the greater good of our species because our long term survival depends on it. If we all just killed each other, our species would not survive very long would it?

 

[bobhikes]

I'm fascinated by the notion that nothing in our perceived reality is actually solid and that it is everything we perceive as matter is merely constructed of non-solid energy. Admittedly, my knowledge is limited on this subject. I'm studying this independently and would like to know more.

"What we perceive as our physical material world, is really not physical or material at all, in fact, it is far from it."

Nothing Is Solid & Everything Is Energy – Scientists Explain The World of Quantum Physics

One may conclude that we are individual observers that are involved in creating our own reality and that the universe is a perceived construct in our consciousness.

While I'd like input from our science-minded RFers, I would like to hear from others as well who would accept this or attempt to disprove it.

What, if any, are the holes in this view?

Assuming this is true, what role does our ever elusive consciousness play in this?

What are the spiritual/religious implications?

Reading through I think the problem is what we consider solid, there is no solid but constant movement and the movement is so fast you can't pass through it. Electrons and Neutrons are the particles. Think of a fan with 2 blades, the faster it turns the less likely you can get anything through. Most of the area is open space though when stopped. If you made the fan go fast enough and never allowed it to stop you would never be able to pass through, now if you shot at it with a gun the bullet may pass without damaging the fan.

 

[SalixIncendium]

If you did some reading you would see that this is not just conjecture. There is evidence that oxytocin levels in the brain directly correlate with our feelings of love and nurturing. Being compassionate produces a chemical response in the body which in turns makes us want to be even more compassionate. Go eat a chocolate bar.

Snide comments like "if you did some reading" are inflammatory disrespectful, trollish, and unnecessary. You have no idea what I read or how often I read, so let's lose the condescension moving forward, okay?

What initiates the oxytocin variance?

As far as the "why", I already told you this... Evolution has programmed us with these chemical responses as part of our need to survive and procreate.

Humans aren't the only ones on Earth that strive to survive and procreate. Are you submitting that all of the Earth's creatures feel love?

 

[Runewolf1973]

Snide comments like "if you did some reading" are inflammatory disrespectful, trollish, and unnecessary. You have no idea what I read or how often I read, so let's lose the condescension moving forward, okay?

What initiates the oxytocin variance?



Humans aren't the only ones on Earth that strive to survive and procreate. Are you submitting that all of the Earth's creatures feel love?

My suggestion that you read up on the subject was in no way meant to be snide, disrespectful, or trolling. That was not my intention. It was simply a suggestion because you will get far more information from other sources than you will from me. Just because I don't have the patience to write you a three page essay on what causes the feeling of love, doesn't mean that what I did tell you was merely "conjecture". It is backed up by evidence. Look it up if you don't believe me.

 

[URAVIP2ME]

Once again, you should do some reading on that. That inborn consciousness is in fact an evolutionary trait. We are programmed to work together for the greater good of our species because our long term survival depends on it. If we all just killed each other, our species would not survive very long would it?

I did Not say inborn consciousness, but that we are born with an inborn 'conscience'.
I wonder how one proves one's conscience ( Not consciousness ) evolved rather than created.
If mankind, as it is today, is programmed for the greater good I wonder why we see so much violence today.
I heard on the radio this week things are so bad in Venezuela that children are prostituting themselves for food.
I wonder why there is religious terrorism or just terrorism in general, and domestic violence, and drug thefts/crime.
'Programmed for the greater good ' should show less sales for locks on windows and doors, less weapon sales.
One job I had employees were cut throats. They would Not help one another, plus when one receptionist was training a replacement because she was leaving she was training the new hire how to do things wrong.
I heard from a woman who has a friend or relative in Germany that things are now so bad in Germany that what is Not fastened down is now missing. Is the jail population growing, if it is how is that showing the greater good.....

 

[SalixIncendium]

My suggestion that you read up on the subject was in no way meant to be snide, disrespectful, or trolling. That was not my intention. It was simply a suggestion because you will get far more information from other sources than you will from me. Just because I don't have the patience to write you a three page essay on what causes the feeling of love, doesn't mean that what I did tell you was merely "conjecture". It is backed up by evidence. Look it up if you don't believe me.

If I misconstrued your intent, I apologize. Rest assured, I do plenty of reading, but often I get more out of discussion with those of varying views than I do out of simply reading articles, which can be easily referenced in conversation anyway.

Also, just because I question you doesn't mean that I don't believe you. I question to learn, and perhaps some of my questions will affect others to be open to considerations that hadn't thought of.

 

[Runewolf1973]

I did Not say inborn consciousness, but that we are born with an inborn 'conscience'.
I wonder how one proves one's conscience ( Not consciousness ) evolved rather than created.
If mankind, as it is today, is programmed for the greater good I wonder why we see so much violence today.
I heard on the radio this week things are so bad in Venezuela that children are prostituting themselves for food.
I wonder why there is religious terrorism or just terrorism in general, and domestic violence, and drug thefts/crime.
'Programmed for the greater good ' should show less sales for locks on windows and doors, less weapon sales.
One job I had employees were cut throats. They would Not help one another, plus when one receptionist was training a replacement because she was leaving she was training the new hire how to do things wrong.
I heard from a woman who has a friend or relative in Germany that things are now so bad in Germany that what is Not fastened down is now missing. Is the jail population growing, if it is how is that showing the greater good.....

Unfortunately, I think there is more to that evolutionary programming. Survival meant acquiring resources, protecting those resources with your life and also hoarding as much as possible to plan for the future. I think this basic survival instinct eventually morphed into what we know know as greed. Greed results in a lot of bad things.

 

[Runewolf1973]

If I misconstrued your intent, I apologize. Rest assured, I do plenty of reading, but often I get more out of discussion with those of varying views than I do out of simply reading articles, which can be easily referenced in conversation anyway.

Also, just because I question you doesn't mean that I don't believe you. I question to learn, and perhaps some of my questions will affect others to be open to considerations that hadn't thought of.

I'm just not the best when it comes to expressing what I mean sometimes. It has a tendency to come out sounding harsh or overly simplistic. My apologies.

 

[URAVIP2ME]

Unfortunately, I think there is more to that evolutionary programming. Survival meant acquiring resources, protecting those resources with your life and also hoarding as much as possible to plan for the future. I think this basic survival instinct eventually morphed into what we know know as greed. Greed results in a lot of bad things.

To me a well-trained conscience serves as a guard against greed.
One man told me he gave a 'hand' to greed and it took his 'whole body' to the point he could Not stop being greedy.
Greed is a part of our ' fallen flesh ' so to speak, because mankind leans / towards unrighteousness.
( works of the physical flesh (not spirit) as mentioned at Galatians 5:19-21)
History shows man has dominated man to man's hurt or injury.
A guided conscience leans straight toward uprightness. Guided by the Golden Rule, etc.

 

[Runewolf1973]

To me a well-trained conscience serves as a guard against greed.
One man told me he gave a 'hand' to greed and it took his 'whole body' to the point he could Not stop being greedy.
Greed is a part of our ' fallen flesh ' so to speak, because mankind leans / towards unrighteousness.
( works of the physical flesh (not spirit) as mentioned at Galatians 5:19-21)
History shows man has dominated man to man's hurt or injury.
A guided conscience leans straight toward uprightness. Guided by the Golden Rule, etc.

I think a person's life experiences whether good or bad may result in a little "reprogramming" if you know what I mean.

 

[URAVIP2ME]

I think a person's life experiences whether good or bad may result in a little "reprogramming" if you know what I mean.

In a nut shell, I find re-programming starting with the Golden Rule.
Perhaps progressing to experiencing Jesus' New commandment as found at John 13:34-35 to have the same self-sacrificing love for others as he has. After all, who was ever arrested for keeping the Golden Rule.