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Can you answer my post?Can jw on here answer my post about the soul and spirit?

Frank Goad

Well-Known Member
Soul and Spirit
5, 6. According to the Bible, what is the soul?

5 The Bible shows that the soul is not something inside a person; the soul is the very person himself. For example, when God created Adam, “the man came to be a living soul.” (Genesis 2:7) Adam was not given a soul; he was a soul, a complete person.

6 Consequently, we read that souls are born. (Genesis 46:18) They can eat or fast. (Leviticus 7:20; Psalm 35:13) They weep and faint away. (Jeremiah 13:17; Jonah 2:7) Souls can be kidnapped, pursued, and put in irons. (Deuteronomy 24:7; Psalm 7:5; 105:18) Some Bibles render the original-language word as “soul” in those verses, while others use the words “being,” “creature,” or “person.” All mean the same thing.

7. What Bible verses show that the soul can die?

7 Since the soul is the person, when a person dies, the soul dies. Ezekiel 18:4 says: “The soul that is sinning—it itself will die.” Also, Acts 3:23 says: “Any soul [or, person] that does not listen to that Prophet will be completely destroyed from among the people.” So the soul is not something that survives the death of the body.

I got this from here: https://www.jw.org/en/publications/...0-b9a99dd8e320&insight[search_result_index]=1

The Apostle Paul – Departing to be with Christ

Paul is in prison not knowing whether he will live or die, and on this subject, he says:

“Yes, and I shall rejoice. For I know that through your prayers and the help of the Spirit of Jesus Christ this will turn out for my deliverance, as it is my eager expectation and hope that I shall not be at all ashamed, but that with full courage now as always Christ will be honored in my body, whether by life or by death. For to me to live is Christ, and to die is gain. If it is to be life in the flesh, that means fruitful labor for me. Yet which I shall choose I cannot tell. I am hard pressed between the two. My desire is to depart and be with Christ, for that is far better. But to remain in the flesh is more necessary on your account. Convinced of this, I know that I shall remain and continue with you all, for your progress and joy in the faith, so that in me you may have ample cause to glory in Christ Jesus, because of my coming to you again.” (Ph’p 1:19-26)

Notice his terminology that juxtaposes the spirit and the flesh: “life in the flesh,” “remain in the flesh,” or “depart and be with Christ,” Paul is picturing his soul or spirit living or remaining in the flesh. Paul is contemplating whether he will live or die – “Christ will be honored in my body, whether by life or death.” So that is the subject, whether Paul lives or dies. He doesn’t know which he would prefer – “I am hard pressed between the two. My desire is to depart and be with Christ, for that is far better.” So when Paul dies he is going to depart and be with Christ. That’s crystal clear. Paul concludes by saying it is better for their sake that he not die yet as they still need his ministry.

If Paul did not have an immortal soul then how could he speak this way? How could Paul contrast the concepts “remain in the flesh” with “depart and be with Christ?” If there is no immortal soul Paul will remain in the flesh even when he is dead. The phrase itself “remain in” means there must exist something to be inside or in the flesh. That something would be the soul.

I got this from here: Soul Sleep Disproved | The Christian Answer Man

Soul and Spirit
5, 6. According to the Bible, what is the soul?

5 The Bible shows that the soul is not something inside a person; the soul is the very person himself. For example, when God created Adam, “the man came to be a living soul.” (Genesis 2:7) Adam was not given a soul; he was a soul, a complete person.

In this part of your website it says the soul is not inside a person.But what about what paul says about this in The Apostle Paul- Departing to be with Christ?:confused: What does this have to do with Ecclesiastes 9:5 ?
 
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leov

Well-Known Member
Soul and Spirit
5, 6. According to the Bible, what is the soul?

5 The Bible shows that the soul is not something inside a person; the soul is the very person himself. For example, when God created Adam, “the man came to be a living soul.” (Genesis 2:7) Adam was not given a soul; he was a soul, a complete person.

6 Consequently, we read that souls are born. (Genesis 46:18) They can eat or fast. (Leviticus 7:20; Psalm 35:13) They weep and faint away. (Jeremiah 13:17; Jonah 2:7) Souls can be kidnapped, pursued, and put in irons. (Deuteronomy 24:7; Psalm 7:5; 105:18) Some Bibles render the original-language word as “soul” in those verses, while others use the words “being,” “creature,” or “person.” All mean the same thing.

7. What Bible verses show that the soul can die?

7 Since the soul is the person, when a person dies, the soul dies. Ezekiel 18:4 says: “The soul that is sinning—it itself will die.” Also, Acts 3:23 says: “Any soul [or, person] that does not listen to that Prophet will be completely destroyed from among the people.” So the soul is not something that survives the death of the body.

I got this from here: https://www.jw.org/en/publications/...0-b9a99dd8e320&insight[search_result_index]=1

The Apostle Paul – Departing to be with Christ

Paul is in prison not knowing whether he will live or die, and on this subject, he says:

“Yes, and I shall rejoice. For I know that through your prayers and the help of the Spirit of Jesus Christ this will turn out for my deliverance, as it is my eager expectation and hope that I shall not be at all ashamed, but that with full courage now as always Christ will be honored in my body, whether by life or by death. For to me to live is Christ, and to die is gain. If it is to be life in the flesh, that means fruitful labor for me. Yet which I shall choose I cannot tell. I am hard pressed between the two. My desire is to depart and be with Christ, for that is far better. But to remain in the flesh is more necessary on your account. Convinced of this, I know that I shall remain and continue with you all, for your progress and joy in the faith, so that in me you may have ample cause to glory in Christ Jesus, because of my coming to you again.” (Ph’p 1:19-26)

Notice his terminology that juxtaposes the spirit and the flesh: “life in the flesh,” “remain in the flesh,” or “depart and be with Christ,” Paul is picturing his soul or spirit living or remaining in the flesh. Paul is contemplating whether he will live or die – “Christ will be honored in my body, whether by life or death.” So that is the subject, whether Paul lives or dies. He doesn’t know which he would prefer – “I am hard pressed between the two. My desire is to depart and be with Christ, for that is far better.” So when Paul dies he is going to depart and be with Christ. That’s crystal clear. Paul concludes by saying it is better for their sake that he not die yet as they still need his ministry.

If Paul did not have an immortal soul then how could he speak this way? How could Paul contrast the concepts “remain in the flesh” with “depart and be with Christ?” If there is no immortal soul Paul will remain in the flesh even when he is dead. The phrase itself “remain in” means there must exist something to be inside or in the flesh. That something would be the soul.

I got this from here: Soul Sleep Disproved | The Christian Answer Man

Soul and Spirit
5, 6. According to the Bible, what is the soul?

5 The Bible shows that the soul is not something inside a person; the soul is the very person himself. For example, when God created Adam, “the man came to be a living soul.” (Genesis 2:7) Adam was not given a soul; he was a soul, a complete person.

In this part of your website it says the soul is not inside a person.But what about what paul says about this in The Apostle Paul- Departing to be with Christ?:confused: What does this have to do with Ecclesiastes 9:5 ?
Soul-Spirit-Mind is eternal individuality unit. Evolutionary state of consciousness soul with enlightenment turns into spirit. This unit came from G-d, or High Consciousness. Imo.
 

Deeje

Avid Bible Student
Premium Member
5 The Bible shows that the soul is not something inside a person; the soul is the very person himself. For example, when God created Adam, “the man came to be a living soul.” (Genesis 2:7) Adam was not given a soul; he was a soul, a complete person.

In this part of your website it says the soul is not inside a person.But what about what paul says about this in The Apostle Paul- Departing to be with Christ?:confused: What does this have to do with Ecclesiastes 9:5 ?

You are confusing soul and spirit, just as Christendom’ s pastors do. There is no immortal soul....there never was. Ecclesiastes says that the dead are not conscious of anything....they can’t think or plan or do anything. Death is like a sleep from which only God can awaken a person.

Think about it. According to the Bible, intelligent life exists in two very different forms, in two completely different realms.

The spiritual realm existed long before the creation of the material universe according to the book of Job, which has the angels ‘shouting in applause’ in observing the creation of the earth.

Spirit beings have the ability to materialise human form as many did when conveying God’s messages and instructions to his human servants. These ate and drank and presented themselves as human in every way. But when their mission was complete, they simply went back to the immaterial world. In order to exist where God is, a being has to be spirit. Jesus was resurrected with a spirit body, but materialised on many occasions to strengthen his apostles after his death. On one occasion he simply disappeared before their eyes. When he finally left the earthly scene, he disappeared in a cloud.

Spirits can exist on earth, but they are not visible....it’s why they had to materialise in order to be seen. They can exist in our world, but we cannot exist in theirs.

The wicked spirits that materialised in Noah’s day even produced a race of freakish children, but after God destroyed them in the flood, and forced their fathers back to the spirit realm, he stripped them of that ability. Now, the only way they can exist on earth is to anchor themselves to material things...objects, or even people. This is why God forbids all forms of spiritism.

So if you understand what “life” is and how it can exist, you can see that it only has those two forms.

In order to fulfil his promise to take some humans to heaven to rule with Christ, he has to transform them into spirit beings, because flesh and blood cannot exist in heaven (the spirit realm) This is a transference of life from one form to another, but it only pertains to the “elect” and it requires either a resurrection to spirit life for those in the grave, or an instant transformation (in the twinkling of an eye) when Christ manifests at the end of this present system.

What Paul was expressing was a collective desire for the chosen ones to be transformed into spirit creatures......it has nothing to do with immortal souls, but simply put, they looked forward to being transformed into beings that could dwell in heaven with Jesus when the appointed time came.

If you read the JW.ORG article again you will see what the scriptures teach.
 
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Hockeycowboy

Witness for Jehovah
Premium Member
@Deeje , once again, you are right on!

You have an eloquent way, my sister.

Isn’t it great, that all 8.5 million of us are unified, & speak in agreement? 1 Corinthians 1:10

And all of us ‘beating our swords into plowshares’! (Isaiah 2:2-5) Gotta love it!
 

Frank Goad

Well-Known Member
The Apostle Paul – Departing to be with Christ

Paul is in prison not knowing whether he will live or die, and on this subject, he says:

“Yes, and I shall rejoice. For I know that through your prayers and the help of the Spirit of Jesus Christ this will turn out for my deliverance, as it is my eager expectation and hope that I shall not be at all ashamed, but that with full courage now as always Christ will be honored in my body, whether by life or by death. For to me to live is Christ, and to die is gain. If it is to be life in the flesh, that means fruitful labor for me. Yet which I shall choose I cannot tell. I am hard pressed between the two. My desire is to depart and be with Christ, for that is far better. But to remain in the flesh is more necessary on your account. Convinced of this, I know that I shall remain and continue with you all, for your progress and joy in the faith, so that in me you may have ample cause to glory in Christ Jesus, because of my coming to you again.” (Ph’p 1:19-26)

Notice his terminology that juxtaposes the spirit and the flesh: “life in the flesh,” “remain in the flesh,” or “depart and be with Christ,” Paul is picturing his soul or spirit living or remaining in the flesh. Paul is contemplating whether he will live or die – “Christ will be honored in my body, whether by life or death.” So that is the subject, whether Paul lives or dies. He doesn’t know which he would prefer – “I am hard pressed between the two. My desire is to depart and be with Christ, for that is far better.” So when Paul dies he is going to depart and be with Christ. That’s crystal clear. Paul concludes by saying it is better for their sake that he not die yet as they still need his ministry.

If Paul did not have an immortal soul then how could he speak this way? How could Paul contrast the concepts “remain in the flesh” with “depart and be with Christ?” If there is no immortal soul Paul will remain in the flesh even when he is dead. The phrase itself “remain in” means there must exist something to be inside or in the flesh. That something would be the soul.

I got this from here: Soul Sleep Disproved | The Christian Answer Man

Soul and Spirit
5, 6. According to the Bible, what is the soul?

5 The Bible shows that the soul is not something inside a person; the soul is the very person himself. For example, when God created Adam, “the man came to be a living soul.” (Genesis 2:7) Adam was not given a soul; he was a soul, a complete person. I got this from here: https://www.jw.org/en/publications/...0-b9a99dd8e320&insight[search_result_index]=1

In this part of your website it says the soul is not inside a person.But what about what paul says about this in The Apostle Paul- Departing to be with Christ?:confused: What does this have to do with Ecclesiastes 9:5 ? How does what paul says in Philippians 1:19-26 fit into Ecclesiastes 9:5 ? :confused:
 

Deeje

Avid Bible Student
Premium Member
Frank...choose whom you want to believe...I have answered your questions to the best of my knowledge.

"For to me to live is Christ, and to die is gain. If it is to be life in the flesh, that means fruitful labor for me. Yet which I shall choose I cannot tell. I am hard pressed between the two. My desire is to depart and be with Christ, for that is far better. But to remain in the flesh is more necessary on your account. Convinced of this, I know that I shall remain and continue with you all, for your progress and joy in the faith, so that in me you may have ample cause to glory in Christ Jesus, because of my coming to you again.” (Ph’p 1:19-26)

It is the desire of all anointed ones to be in heaven with Christ....it is a strong desire implanted by God's spirit.

Paul contrasted his desire to be with Christ in heaven (he did not have any way to know how long it would be before his being transformed into a spirit being like all of his brothers in Christ) and his desire to serve his Master's interests whilst still in the flesh. So whilst he was still earth bound, he would serve to the best of his ability....but his heart yearned for the life he would live in heaven with his Lord whom he only knew by spirit.
 
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