Frank Goad
Well-Known Member
Proverbs 9:18.Isaiah 14:9-11.Ephesians 4:8-10.Philippians 2:10.
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Can you answer my post?And explain these verses back to back?
- Thread starter Frank Goad
- Start date
Fallen Angels/Demons whichever term you prefer.
You are plucking verses out of context again Frank....the truth is not in a verse....but in the context surrounding it...the ones to whom is is directed and the fact that "ALL scripture is inspired of God" (2 Timothy 3:16-17)
Proverbs 9:11...
"For by me your days will be many,
And years will be added to your life."
Highlights From the Book of Proverbs — Watchtower ONLINE LIBRARY
Isaiah 14:9-11....
"Even the Grave [sheol] underneath is stirred up
To meet you when you come.
Because of you, it awakens those powerless in death,
All the oppressive leaders of the earth.
It makes all the kings of the nations rise from their thrones.
10 All of them speak up and say to you,
‘Have you also become weak like us?
Have you become like us?
11 Down to the Grave [sheol] your pride has been brought,
The sound of your stringed instruments.
Maggots are spread beneath you as a bed,
And worms are your covering.’"
This is figurative language made worse if one reads the Bible in archaic English. A modern version of the Bible helps with translation so much better than a dead language can.
This is speaking about "sheol"....not "hell", but mankind's collective grave. We all go there. (Ecclesiastes 9:10)
Ephesian 4:8-10....
"For it says: “When he ascended on high he carried away captives; he gave gifts in men.” 9 Now what does the expression “he ascended” mean but that he also descended into the lower regions, that is, the earth? 10 The very one who descended is also the one who ascended far above all the heavens, so that he might give fullness to all things."
When Jesus left to return to heaven, he gave the congregations "gifts in men"...shepherds who would lovingly guide and direct the flock as he had done.
Jesus "descended" from heaven to become a human on earth.....and after completing his mission, he gained entry back into heaven and he was given a name and position higher than what he had before.....ascending far above any other personage in his Father's family of spirit creatures...."giving fullness (or completion) to all things."
Philippians 2:10.....
"so that in the name of Jesus every knee should bend—of those in heaven and those on earth and those under the ground"
If you read the whole passage....
"Keep this mental attitude in you that was also in Christ Jesus, 6 who, although he was existing in God’s form, gave no consideration to a seizure, namely, that he should be equal to God. 7 No, but he emptied himself and took a slave’s form and became human. 8 More than that, when he came as a man, he humbled himself and became obedient to the point of death, yes, death on a torture stake. 9 For this very reason, God exalted him to a superior position and kindly gave him the name that is above every other name, 10 so that in the name of Jesus every knee should bend—of those in heaven and those on earth and those under the ground— 11 and every tongue should openly acknowledge that Jesus Christ is Lord to the glory of God the Father."
Some things become obvious in this passage only after meditation on what it is actually saying.
Jesus existed "in God's form".......what form is that? John said that "God is a spirit", so all this is saying is that Jesus in his pre-human existence was also a spirit.
He did not want to grasp equality with God.
He humbled himself and offered his life in our behalf and as a reward for his faithful service and endurance, God rewarded him with a superior position and a new name that is higher than any other. If he was God, then those verse make no sense....how do you exalt God to a superior position or give him a name higher than what he already has?
But as the savior of mankind and appointed King over all, every knee should bent to this magnificent King...those living, and those under the ground who will rise at the coming resurrection, will all acknowledge Jesus as King....but to whose glory is all of this to take place?....."to the glory of God the Father".
Frank Goad
Well-Known Member
This isn't the verses i asked you to explain.Maybe you got confused.
In my first post i asked for Proverbs 9:18.Not Proverbs 9:11.
Here is my first post:
Sorry for the mix up but I still don't understand your point....?This isn't the verses i asked you to explain.Maybe you got confused.
In my first post i asked for Proverbs 9:18.Not Proverbs 9:11.
Here is my first post:
Perhaps you need to read your scripture in a modern English Bible? The old archaic English translations are not very accurate in today's world when language usage has changed and increased understanding of the languages of the Bible has increased.
Proverbs 9:18....
"But he does not know that those powerless in death are there,
That her guests are in the depths of the Grave."
The dead are powerless. Sheol is the grave...not hell.
Proverbs 2:18 says...."For down to death her house does sink and down to those impotent in death her tracks."
Job was a very faithful man; in fact God said that there was no one more faithful than Job was at that time....yet Job prayed to God to find relief from his suffering in "Sheol" because he knew that the dead are not conscious. He knew that the dead do not wake up because up to that time, no one ever had......he had no notion of going to heaven, but he believed in the resurrection, as he indicated in Job 14:12-15.....
"12 Man also lies down and does not get up.
Until heaven is no more, they will not wake up,
Nor will they be aroused from their sleep.
13 O that in the Grave [sheol] you would conceal me,
That you would hide me until your anger passes by,
That you would set a time limit for me and remember me!
14 If a man dies, can he live again?
I will wait all the days of my compulsory service
Until my relief comes.
15 You will call, and I will answer you.
You will long for the work of your hands."
Job knew that if he died, the time would come when God would restore his life.....that he would call Job out of death, just like Jesus called Lazarus out of his tomb. (John 11:11-14)
The resurrection will not take place in this world (Job uses the expression "under the sun" to indicate this) Even God's ancient servants knew that a better world was coming. The apostle Peter knew from Isaiah's prophesies that a "new world" where "righteousness" was to be the norm, was coming. (2 Peter 3:13; Isaiah 65:17; Isaiah 66:22)
If you want specific answers, please ask specific questions about the verses you cite.
Hi Frank : You asked about these four verses :
Proverb 9:18 But he knoweth not that the dead are there; and that her guests are in the depths of hell.
Isaiah 14: 9-11 Hell beneath was embittered meeting you. All the great ones ruling the earth, the ones rising from their thrones rose up together against you. The ones ruling from their thrones. All the kings of the nations. rose up against you. All shall answer and say to you. Are you reckoned among us and captured even as we (are)? Your great gladness and your glory descended into Hades. Beneath you they shall spread decay and (the) worm shall cover you.
Ephesians 4:8-10 Wherefore he saith, When he ascended up on high, he led captivity captive, and gave gifts unto men.9 Now that he ascended, what is it but that he also descended first into the lower parts of the earth? 10 He that descended is the same also that ascended up far above all heavens, that he might fill all things.
Phillipians 2:10 That at the name of Jesus every knee should bend, (whether of) heaven, and earth, and under (the) earth). 11. And every tongue will acknowledge that Jesus Christ is Lord, to the Gory of God (the) Father.
Hi @Frank Goad
I am not sure what (specifically) you are trying to ask about, or what connection you are making between these four verses. However, the connection you appear to be making between them seems to involve the relationship between individuals in hades, that is, the devil/satan who in early Christian theology was there, and Jesus, who in early Christian theology descended into Hades as a spirit (during the three days his body lay lifeless), to free the spirits held captive there.
While I cannot reference all of the later Christian theories and their interpretations, I can point out that In early Christian tradition, Hades was in the earth and all who died left their decaying bodies in the grave while their spirit “descended” into hades to await their release as part of the Messiahs accomplishments.
The early Christian literature indicates the belief that the Messiah was to descend from his place in heaven and he was to be incarnated (“take on flesh”) by being born into this world like all other men. He was to accomplish the atonement and the resurrection for mankind, which formed the basis of the atonement and resurrection of the rest of mankind as part of the Fathers plan. Thus, the early Christian decensus literature describes the visit of the Messiah to hades and the freeing of the spirits of those spirits held captive there.
For example, it seems Proverbs 9:18 and Isaiah 14:9-11 reference Hades, the place to which all individuals who die, (even “all the chief ones of the earth”) entered, and, as a sort of “way station”, remained there while they awaited the atonement of Jesus and their resurrection.
Ephesians 4:8-10 references the early Christian teaching regarding both the descent of Christ into Hades (the “lower parts of the earth” when he released the captive spirits there) as well as his ascent into his place of honor where he reigns over his Kingdom and “every knee” bows to him in honor and gratitude for who he is and what he has accomplished for mankind.
In any case Frank and whatever these things mean to you, Good luck in your own spiritual journey.
Clear
τωειδρω
Proverb 9:18 But he knoweth not that the dead are there; and that her guests are in the depths of hell.
Isaiah 14: 9-11 Hell beneath was embittered meeting you. All the great ones ruling the earth, the ones rising from their thrones rose up together against you. The ones ruling from their thrones. All the kings of the nations. rose up against you. All shall answer and say to you. Are you reckoned among us and captured even as we (are)? Your great gladness and your glory descended into Hades. Beneath you they shall spread decay and (the) worm shall cover you.
Ephesians 4:8-10 Wherefore he saith, When he ascended up on high, he led captivity captive, and gave gifts unto men.9 Now that he ascended, what is it but that he also descended first into the lower parts of the earth? 10 He that descended is the same also that ascended up far above all heavens, that he might fill all things.
Phillipians 2:10 That at the name of Jesus every knee should bend, (whether of) heaven, and earth, and under (the) earth). 11. And every tongue will acknowledge that Jesus Christ is Lord, to the Gory of God (the) Father.
Hi @Frank Goad
I am not sure what (specifically) you are trying to ask about, or what connection you are making between these four verses. However, the connection you appear to be making between them seems to involve the relationship between individuals in hades, that is, the devil/satan who in early Christian theology was there, and Jesus, who in early Christian theology descended into Hades as a spirit (during the three days his body lay lifeless), to free the spirits held captive there.
While I cannot reference all of the later Christian theories and their interpretations, I can point out that In early Christian tradition, Hades was in the earth and all who died left their decaying bodies in the grave while their spirit “descended” into hades to await their release as part of the Messiahs accomplishments.
The early Christian literature indicates the belief that the Messiah was to descend from his place in heaven and he was to be incarnated (“take on flesh”) by being born into this world like all other men. He was to accomplish the atonement and the resurrection for mankind, which formed the basis of the atonement and resurrection of the rest of mankind as part of the Fathers plan. Thus, the early Christian decensus literature describes the visit of the Messiah to hades and the freeing of the spirits of those spirits held captive there.
For example, it seems Proverbs 9:18 and Isaiah 14:9-11 reference Hades, the place to which all individuals who die, (even “all the chief ones of the earth”) entered, and, as a sort of “way station”, remained there while they awaited the atonement of Jesus and their resurrection.
Ephesians 4:8-10 references the early Christian teaching regarding both the descent of Christ into Hades (the “lower parts of the earth” when he released the captive spirits there) as well as his ascent into his place of honor where he reigns over his Kingdom and “every knee” bows to him in honor and gratitude for who he is and what he has accomplished for mankind.
In any case Frank and whatever these things mean to you, Good luck in your own spiritual journey.
Clear
τωειδρω
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