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Can the universe create itself when it does‘t exist?

Twilight Hue

Twilight Hue

Twilight, not bright nor dark, good nor bad.
paarsurrey said:
Can the universe create itself when it does‘t exist?

I understand it cannot. Right, please?

Regards
___________
With thanks to friend @PruePhillip post #244
Click to expand...
Possibly. I think we live in a continuum so there is likely an enternal component somewhere awaiting to be discovered if at all.

Plus what we see as 'nothing' might be just too small for us to detect.

I also tend to think micro macro dimensions are just as endless in context of how big or small you can go.

Those are just my running thoughts on it.
 
Polymath257

Polymath257

Think & Care
Staff member
Premium Member
To 'create' requires time. And time is part of the universe. So, no, the universe didn't create itself.

It simply exists without a cause. At least, that's how I see it.
 
Brickjectivity

Brickjectivity

wind and rain touch not this brain
Staff member
Premium Member
paarsurrey said:
Can the universe create itself when it does‘t exist?

I understand it cannot. Right, please?

Regards
Click to expand...
People often wonder how there can be existence. In ancient times they said that everything arose from chaos. In modern times we don't, however it is thought that there is actually chaos in subspace. I'm not sure about the details. The fact is that if there is a creator then the question becomes where does that creator come from. Its possible, however, that creation is unnecessary if we aren't real. If we aren't real then all we have to be is form without substance.

Thief said:
I have posted for years......Spirit First
Click to expand...
Yeah something like that I think.
 
paarsurrey

paarsurrey

Veteran Member
Nowhere Man said:
Possibly. I think we live in a continuum so there is likely an enternal component somewhere awaiting to be discovered if at all.

Plus what we see as 'nothing' might be just too small for us to detect.

I also tend to think micro macro dimensions are just as endless in context of how big or small you can go.

Those are just my running thoughts on it.
Click to expand...
Is it from religion or science what one has expressed,please?

Regards
 
Polymath257

Polymath257

Think & Care
Staff member
Premium Member
paarsurrey said:
"It simply exists without a cause."

Isn't it unreasonable, please?

Regards
Click to expand...

Why do you think it is? Is there anything else *you* might think exists without a cause? Like a deity, perhaps?

Why is it more reasonable to assume a deity exists without a cause than to assume the universe does? At least we have evidence that the universe does, in fact, exist.
 
Thief

Thief

Rogue Theologian
paarsurrey said:
I don't get one exactly. Please elaborate.

Regards
Click to expand...
I believe in science

nothing moves without something to move it

the universe is moving.....Something set it into motion

I further note....science believes an object in motion will move in a straight line
and....for every action there is an opposite and equal reaction

from the 'point' of the primordial singularity....
a simple expansion would be a hollow sphere of energy
equal in all manner
expanding uniformily

THAT is NOT what we see when we look up

rotation, orbit, spiral

for all that we see to be as we see it....
the rotation would need to be in play BEFORE the expansion began

that would be the pinch and snap......
of God's Fingers upon the singularity
 
Hellbound Serpiente

Hellbound Serpiente

Active Member
paarsurrey said:
Can the universe create itself when it does‘t exist?

I understand it cannot. Right, please?

Regards
___________
With thanks to friend @PruePhillip post #244
Click to expand...

My apologies, but I don't understand why people think that universe can't always existed eternally much like they think God can. What if I say universe is an unfolding and folding mass that always existed?

Don't get me wrong, I am personally more inclined towards the idea of God being the first cause, but my inclination doesn't make the idea more rational.
 
Nakosis

Nakosis

Non-Binary Physicalist
Premium Member
paarsurrey said:
Can the universe create itself when it does‘t exist?

I understand it cannot. Right, please?

Regards
___________
With thanks to friend @PruePhillip post #244
Click to expand...

When you see a tree, do you ask who created it?

Did the ground create it? Did the seed create it Did the rain create it?

Before there was nothing, now there is a tree which anyone can see. When did the tree start being a tree? When does a tree stop being a tree?

When did the universe start being a universe? When does it stop being one?
 
paarsurrey

paarsurrey

Veteran Member
Brickjectivity said:
People often wonder how there can be existence. In ancient times they said that everything arose from chaos. In modern times we don't, however it is thought that there is actually chaos in subspace. I'm not sure about the details. The fact is that if there is a creator then the question becomes where does that creator come from. Its possible, however, that creation is unnecessary if we aren't real. If we aren't real then all we have to be is form without substance.

Yeah something like that I think.
Click to expand...
"The fact is that if there is a creator then the question becomes where does that creator come from. Its possible, however, that creation is unnecessary if we aren't real."

I understand that there is G-d who created it, and has claimed it in so many truthful words and given clues as to how and for what purposes. It is the religious knowledge as authentic, if not more or the most, in its domain as is science in its domain while science is not finished with its homework as yet. Right,please?

Regards
 
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