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Can the Living Pray for the Dead & Vice Versa?
- Thread starter metis
- Start date
No. Ecclesiastes 9:5; Psalms 146:3-4; Psalms 115:17. They're "sleeping." John 11:11-13
metis
aged ecumenical anthropologist
So, you don't believe there are any people now in heaven?
Actually, yes, I do. But they have to be "chosen", since they fulfill a purpose: they rule with Jesus as kings. (Revelation 5:9-10) [10b“Over.” Gr., e·piʹ, with the genitive, as in Revelation 9:11; Revelation 11:6.] Not everyone can be a king, because kings have subjects. I believe the vast majority of those who have died **will be** resurrected back to life on Earth.(John 5:28-29, note future tense). A paradise Earth, with all corruption being gone. Psalms 37:9-11,29; Isaiah 11:6-9; Matthew 6:9-10, "thy will be done on Earth."
Take care.
metis
aged ecumenical anthropologist
So, then please revisit the original question, namely can the living pray for the dead and the dead pray for the living? If not, why not, especially based on what you wrote above?
Here's something you might find interesting: two groups that have Jesus' -- and God's -- approval....Matthew 25:31-46.
Notice "the sheep", but then in vs. 40, Jesus mentions "my brothers", different from the sheep.
Kelly of the Phoenix
Well-Known Member
I don't see if they "pray". However, I think they can guide from beyond.
Well, I guess there's no need for us to pray for them, once in Heaven, they've gotten their reward.
But the Bible does call them "priests", so in that capacity, they might be working in our behalf (they certainly will later, once this System is destroyed and survivors are left over (Revelation 7:9-14), and the dead begin to be resurrected). If that would entail prayer.....well, they're with Jesus and His Father; they could just talk to them, to help us.
Well, my point was, that there are two separate groups, indicating two different hopes: Jesus' brothers would be taken to Heaven, whereas the sheep would live on Earth, under that kingdom rule.
lostwanderingsoul
Well-Known Member
I missed that verse about Jesus brothers going to Heaven. Can you quote it?
Oh, sorry.... I thought you were Metis, I replied to the wrong person! My bad.
Good question.
There really is no one verse. The understanding is extrapolated from several, dealing with the subject.
If I may ask, who do you think Jesus' brothers are, and why does Jesus mention them as separate from the sheep mentioned in Matthew 25:31-33? Keep in mind, one specific group in the Bible can be called by many things, just as Jesus called himself "Son of man", "Son of God", "the Master", etc.
lostwanderingsoul
Well-Known Member
Jesus brothers are those who God adopts as His children when they receive His holy spirit. You could still mention the "several verses" so that I can extrapolate from them. Jesus will rule His kingdom on earth and His brothers will rule with Him. I see nothing about Heaven.
Jesus called it, "the Kingdom of the Heavens", in many places: Matthew 4:17; Matthew 5:10; Matthew 10:7; Matthew 11:11.
lostwanderingsoul
Well-Known Member
There is a big difference between OF and IN. It is also called the Kingdom of God. That means it is ruled by God who is in Heaven but God could rule a kingdom that is not in Heaven. There is no need to extrapolate. The Bible says Jesus will stand on the Mount of Olives (on earth). And a new Jerusalem will come down FROM Heaven and Jesus will rule from there (on earth). The Kingdom OF God or Kingdom OF Heaven is not IN Heaven. There is a branch of the Bank of England in New York City. It is run, controlled, owned by people in England but the bank itself is not located in England.
Yes and Yes. But I see it more as sending positive light and energy. And even asking for the intercession of a higher level soul can be successful. (Light and energy are figurative for things beyond our normal vibrations and three-dimensions). The highest teaching is that we are all an inter-connected One so these things can and do work.
metis
aged ecumenical anthropologist
This really isn't about "proving" anything but more about what different people may believe for whatever reason.
The living praying for the dead? Sure: happens all the time. Whether those prayers have any effect is a separate question.
The dead praying for the living? I've never seen a dead person pray for anything or anyone.
metis
aged ecumenical anthropologist
In regards to the latter, you wouldn't see them because they would be in heaven-- unless you're already there?
