Unification
Well-Known Member
Are you ONE with the Father?
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Can someone explain the Trinity please...
- Thread starter Youtellme
- Start date
Are you ONE with the Father?
JM2C
CHRISTIAN
You/jw/nwt are the antichrist.
JM2C
CHRISTIAN
One with Father as the adopted children of God –John 17:21. The Lord Jesus Christ is one with Father as the only begotten God/Son of the Father –John 1:18, John 10:30. You see the difference? The Lord Jesus’ union with His Father is as “the only begotten God –John 1:18” while the True Christians are through adoptions. “He predestined us to adoption as sons through Jesus Christ –Eph 1:5”, “waiting eagerly for our adoption as sons –Romans 8:23. Read also John 1:12-13.
JM2C
CHRISTIAN
The One/Echad/Unified LORD is our God/Elohim, and God/Elohim being plural shows that God, i.e., [God/Father, God/Son, God/Holy Spirit described in John 10:30, John 14:16, and Acts 5:3-4] are all ONE/Echad/Unified LORD, that is more than one, yet is "ONE/ECHAD-SH259 United Jehovah/LORD" and this is what Deuteronomy 6:4 in the OT was saying. Hence, we have the Trinity from the OT to the NT.
Why Maimonides would change the “Echad/united one” to “Yachid/an absolute one”? Can any of the jw/nwt answer this? I guess they/jw/nwt have not corrupted/adulterate Dt 6:4 yet.
“Prior to the days of Moses Maimonides, the unity of God was expressed by echad which, as has been proved beyond a doubt, has as its primary meaning that of a compound unity. Maimonides, who drafted the thirteen articles of faith, in the second one sets forth the unity of God, using the word yachid which in the Tenach is never used to express God's unity. From these facts it is evident that a new idea was injected into this confession by substituting yachid which in every passage carries the primary idea of oneness in the absolute sense for echad which primarily means a compound unity. Hence from the days of Maimonides on, an interpretation different from the ancient one was placed upon this most important passage [Dt 6:4].” -David Cooper.
For more info about "echad/unified ONE" and "yachid/an only one" please follow the link.
The Trinity: The Old Testament Evidence: A Multi-Personal God
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truthofscripture
Active Member
Show me where it says that, because I've studied the scriptures, cover to cover for a LONG time, and have NEVER seen anything like what you just posted. Please, show me with quotations of scripture.
Unification
Well-Known Member
There is problem number 1, "I've studied the scriptures for a LONG time, cover to cover."
Boasting and pride, and oneself studying with with their own wisdom and understanding.
If your intent is pure, message me, we can discuss... Peaceably with scripture.
truthofscripture
Active Member
No, the problem is that you take someone indicating that they've studied, as boasting. That is reading into something what is not there. It appears that discussion wouldn't be valid.
Muffled
Jesus in me
If Jesus was fully God and fully man, how could he possibly be given a name above what he already has? Who can give God a name that he doesn't already have?
In Ex 3:15 Jehovah (YHWH) stated that he has one name that was to be his alone forever. God does not change his name, because he does not need to, but Jesus does. Jesus is not Jehovah, but his created son. Are you your father? What is the point of describing themselves as "father and son" if this is not their true relationship? We humans have a concept of this relationship, yet trinitarians want us to believe that father and son in this relationship are equals. They never were. Even in heaven, YHWH is the God of Jesus. (Rev 3:12)
Again, the truth is right there under your nose. Whose glory does Jesus reflect?
If Jesus is God why is he not promoting his own 'equal' glory? Why did he never once admit to being God Almighty?
If Jesus was God and equal to his Father in every way, how is it that the Father needs to 'give' him authority, "in heaven and on earth", to exercise power? Do you see how ridiculous your argument is?
Since Jesus is a servant of his superior Father, that is not surprising. He alone was given the assignment as Messiah and mediator. Does it never occur to trinitarians that the barrier that separates man from the Father, somehow doesn't apply to his "equal"? If we need a mediator between us and God...how come we don't need a mediator between us and Jesus? Does that make sense to you?
It's all there in the scriptures you quote, but there is a 'blindness' in trinitarians that is not explainable except by 2 Cor 4:3, 4.
I believe Jesus does not have the name Jehovah. I believe that is due to the fact that He did not choose that name for his physical entity.
God can choose to elevate the name of Jesus above the name of Jehovah.
I believe you are confused because God had already done so in Exodus using both JHVH and AYAH.
I believe this is bogus because nowhere does Jesus change the name of God.
I believe you have not proven this and can't.
I believe this is a specious question since there is no comparison between me and God.
I believe this does not change the reality that Jesus is God in the flesh.
I believe this is upside down. If Jesus is God He can't express a separate glory.
I beleive He has.
I believe all the givens are a given. However for those hearing and reading it needs to be spelled out that Authority is in Jesus.
I beleive people ridicule when they aren't able to prove their point.
I believe it makes sense. God does not have a mouth to speak but anyone can hear Jesus.
cataway
Well-Known Member
how many times does it have to be in the bible until you admit its there ?
truthofscripture
Active Member
It isn't the name that gets elevated, it is the person. God's title is God, His name is Jehovah. If Jesus were his father, and his father was His son, it would be pretty weird. If Jesus begat himself, that would be even more strange, because Jesus would have to existed before he existed, which is impossible. Jesus did not send himself, pray to himself, resurrect himself, teach himself for countless millions of years before he sent himself to Earth. How could Jesus not know what his Father knows, and still be his own father? Saying that Jesus is God is following PAGAN beliefs in a trinity or triune God. Holy spirit is not an individual, it is God's active force through which things are created, people are taught, resurrected, and healed. You cannot fill a person with a person, or divide a person up amongst thousands of other people. There is no trinity and Jesus cannot possibly be God, his father. That is insane to think so. The concept of Jesus being God didn't even exist until the beginning of the fourth century, LONG after Jesus was dead and resurrected. Religions teach these falsehoods, not God, not Jesus, and not the scriptures. I cannot understand why you would believe men over God, who created all men. You are in essence saying that men, who were created by God, are smarter and more intelligent than God who created them. THAT IS INSANE. Get out of religion now before it's too late, and study God's word instead. If you fail to do this, you will be condemned to destruction like the rest of man made religion, religionists, and all the others whom God said He will destroy in the final battle. If you actually STUDIED carefully, the scriptures, you would not believe the lies that you believe.
Desert Snake
Veteran Member
Do you believe everything in the Bible word for word?
truthofscripture
Active Member
One should believe everything in the inspired word of God. Most English translations of the scriptures, however, are NOT the inspired word of God. They are FILLED with mistranslations, deliberately, to deceive the reader. They are also filled with pagan traditions.
Desert Snake
Veteran Member
First you said this..
Now, you are saying this.
Do you want us to believe the Bible, or not?
truthofscripture
Active Member
It is the inspired word of God that we should believe, not mistranslated versions of it. I get the feeling that you don't care if it's accurate or not. Your favorite translation is what you will use regardless of the deliberate errors in it. Regardless of the pagan traditions contained in it. Out of 38 or so modern English translations, only three are accurate, or close to accurate.
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Muffled
Jesus in me
I believe when you actually prove it is there and you haven't.
Muffled
Jesus in me
I believe your mind has been corrupted by JW teaching so that you aren't able to see the truth. None of those arguments holds water. I am going to limit my self to just one for now.
It is the name just as scripture states: Php 2:9 Wherefore also God highly exalted him, and gave unto him the name which is above every name;
truthofscripture
Active Member
Since you haven't a clue, apparently, what the Christian Congregation learns, then your argument is.not valid. The Witnesses for God learn nothing more than the scriptures. So you are saying that the inspired word of God is a corrupting influence. That's a less than intelligent thing for you to say. God's word is NOT corrupting. Your taking Php. 2:9 out of context and believing it has a meaning other than what was intended isn't helping your case any. That is a tactic of false religion, so I'm not surprised in your doing that. What I posted that you are complaining about is completely accurate and true. Your choosing to disbelieve God is your business and your choice. Leave me out of it.
Muffled
Jesus in me
I believe JW's claim to follow the scripture but the fact is that they follow a corrupted view of the scripture. I have never known a JW who didn't learn from a teacher and learned from scripture instead and even learning from scripture on ones own is dangerous.
I believe I am saying that the teachers have learned a corrupted view themselves and teach it.
I believe that is why I didn't say it but you did, lol.
I believe context is important so let me guess that you have some fancied notion about the context that is just as unlikely as other JW beliefs but I am willing to listen to your argument since it is so much fun to show you where you have gone wrong.
I don't beleive anyone can read intentions into scripture but I do have information from the Holy Spirit so I would be able to tell that way.
Actually I studied with the JW's for a while and the Holy Spirit would indicate where the teaching had gone wrong after each session. I also have a JW brother-in-law and have witnessed how teaching is done with him. Someone else with no experience might not have a clue but I am well informed.
truthofscripture
Active Member
It appears that your opinion of God's named people is a corrupted one. God's witnesses learn from the scriptures. You are unable to show me where I've gone wrong, because I haven't gone wrong. It's amazing that you never consider that you could be wrong. That's the opposite of the humility Jesus taught us to posess. It's also unlikely that holy spirit is used in your case. Your belief is contrary to the scriptures and God will not use holy spirit on such a person. He said as much. You're making things up and pretending to be one of God's people. Upon no one else is holy spirit used. You claim to be well informed. It is falsehoods to which you are well informed.
Muffled
Jesus in me
I believe you should not go by appearances. I don't believe the Holy Spirit to be a corrupting influence.
I believe that to be true but that does not mean that JW's are learning correctly.
My experience is that most people and particulary JW's don't admit they are wrong even when it is proven that they are but I beleive I can show you where you go wrong.
I believe most debaters would view this as hubris but I simply believe that is your belief whether valid or not.
I believe you have not had enough experience with me to say "never" and I did not say it. I just believe having the Holy Spirit guarantees that I will be right most of the time.
I believe you have no basis for determining likelihood in my case.
I believe you have things backward. Your wrong view of scripture does not mean that I don't have the Holy Spirit but my right view of scripture means that I do have the Holy Spirit. Notice that you haven't claimed to have the Holy Spirit as your guide in understanding scripture.
I bel;ieve you have no evidence to support this view and I deny it.
I believe it is difficult to ascerttain what you mean by this. I certainly believe there are other people who have the Holy Spirit as guides.
I believe you are calling the Holy Spirit a false guide.