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Featured Can secularism be oppressive to any religious believer?

Discussion in 'Interfaith Discussion' started by F1fan, Aug 24, 2021.

  1. Valjean

    Valjean Veteran Member
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    Did you see the Op-Ed on MSNBC last week, comparing the growing, religiously motivated, GOP sponsored, restrictions on American womens' rights compared to Taliban oppression?
    Interesting article. Opinion | The GOP cares about women's rights — when it's convenient

    "If the GOP wants to show that it is sincerely concerned with the rights of the women in Afghanistan, it can start by first championing the human rights of women in the U.S. But instead, it is doing all it can to prevent gender equality while oppressing women based on its members’ extreme religious beliefs. Sound familiar?"
     
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  2. alypius

    alypius Active Member

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    What does 'true belief in an absolute sense' mean in this thread?
     
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  3. Augustus

    Augustus the Unreasonable

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    It ultimately has its origins far further back in Christian theology, power disputes between the Pope and Holy Roman Emperor that established clear boundaries between religious and secular authority and centuries of religious and political evolution from the Middle Ages through to the Modern Period.
     
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  4. Augustus

    Augustus the Unreasonable

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    I didn't compare it to religion in general, but to a religious principle in the sense that they are making competing truth claims.
    To be neutral is a stance. To be silent is not.

    The stance will depend on the broader ideology for all issues other than the basic definition of secularism.
     
  5. GardenLady

    GardenLady Active Member

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    Do you see the teaching of science in a science classroom as religious oppression? Do you think religious beliefs should be taught in a science class?
     
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  6. oldbadger

    oldbadger Skanky Old Mongrel!

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    Yes. Of course secularism can oppress some theists.
    Would it be oppressive for some secularists to live within a Theistic community, like a theocracy?

    Secularism inhibits, prohibits and/or reduces the freedoms of Theism.
    Theism inhibits, prohibits and/or reduces the freedoms of Secularism.

    Which part of that is hard to understand?
     
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  7. Valjean

    Valjean Veteran Member
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    How would teaching science in science class be oppressive?
    Religion is pretty much the opposite of science, so I can't see how it could possibly be classified as science.
     
  8. GardenLady

    GardenLady Active Member

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    @Valjean, I quite agree. But comments I have heard indicate that there are those who do not agree.
     
  9. cOLTER

    cOLTER Well-Known Member

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    Godless evolution is an idea from the Atheist secular religion but you have no problem teaching that in public schools. Materialism denies God.


    You promote Godless materialism so just ask yourself.


    Secularist are religious about their anti-religious ideology. The false assumption being that the lack of a formerly recognized religion is a lack of belief. Godless secularism has invaded every aspect of declining civilization.


    Secularists haven't disproven God but proceed as if they have.
     
  10. cOLTER

    cOLTER Well-Known Member

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    Atheistic science is a religious belief presented as a neutral standard that everyone should just shut up and accept. To say life evolved over time is an observation based on a number of correlated facts. But to go one step further and claim life invented itself when lightening struck a pile of sand, means nothing and is going nowhere, is Atheistic science. Its a form of religious belief.
     
  11. Rawshak

    Rawshak Member

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    Could you show me anywhere in the Theory of Evolution that deals with the existence of a God?
    Most people who believe evolution to best explain the diversity of life also believe in a God.
     
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  12. cOLTER

    cOLTER Well-Known Member

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    The reason creationism doesn't belong in any classroom is because the classrooms are Atheist territory. Naturally, you see it as an "of course"

    Its important that the church and state are separate, but that wasn't enough for the (Atheists, Humanists or Secularist). They seek to separate religion, religious values and religionists from having a voice in society.
     
  13. Rawshak

    Rawshak Member

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    Could you point to what atheistic science is? I am unaware of any such entity.
     
  14. Rawshak

    Rawshak Member

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    You have misquoted the poster, they say that creationism does not belong in any science classroom not that is does not belong in any classroom. You have simply made a factual error.
     
  15. GardenLady

    GardenLady Active Member

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    @cOLTER, how do you reconcile your assertions with the FACT that many (perhaps most) Christians are both theists and accept the scientific evidence of evolution and deep time? Many who accept this science are not materialists or atheists. Why lie about their faith?
     
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  16. cOLTER

    cOLTER Well-Known Member

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    I'm a theistic evolutionist. I want facts taught, not Atheistic belief masquerading as scientific fact.

    To say life evolved is supported by facts. To say life evolved after life spontaneously invented itself and one-day-we-will-prove-it is a kind of unsubstantiated faith presented as fact.

    In general, the bias of evolutionary scientific discussion is the assertion that Life appeared on its own and disregards a creator through some sort of event. The Miller–Urey experiment was an attempt to recreate the hypothesis.
     
  17. ecco

    ecco Veteran Member

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    Every theist cherry-picks. All theists cherry-pick.

    The slavers cherry-picked verses to support their beliefs.
    The abolitionists cherry-picked verses to support their beliefs.

    That's the problem with the Bible, and most all scripture, one can find justification for almost anything
     
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  18. F1fan

    F1fan Well-Known Member

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    So not all theists would have a problem with it. Why are they cool with secularism while your "some" would not be? What is the latter group wanting if they see secular approaches as oppression?

    If the theocracy forced compliance to some ideological authority that would otherwise not occur in a secular nation, then yes.

    What freedoms can't they have?

    And even other forms of theism, so vastly less tolerant and free as a society, yes? Which offers more to an open society?

    Depends on your answers.
     
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  19. ecco

    ecco Veteran Member

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    Secularism in education can also be seen in such things as not forcing kids to pray to a specific God.

    I wouldn't refer to anti-creationism as a trend. Anti-creationism is a step away from superstition and toward reality.

    Atheism promotes a belief devoid of any supernatural aspects to reality.

    Yes. And that is good.
    Religious values stemming from the Bible make homosexuality wrong.
    Religious values stemming from the Bible make masturbation wrong.
    Religious values stemming from the Bible make slavery right.



    Atheists and Materialists would be glad to ignore God(s). However, the religious always want to insert God(s) into daily life.



    Good.
     
  20. F1fan

    F1fan Well-Known Member

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    Hell if I know. It's something a certain category of believer claims for themselves. I was just quoting one of these believers.

    In my experience it is an absolutist and extreme form of belief, that both claims to have an exclusive and correct interpretation of a religion over all other interpretations. It also tends to claim authority over all people even if they don't agree or believe.
     
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