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Featured Can Science Prove There Are No Ghosts

Discussion in 'Science and Religion' started by james bond, Nov 8, 2017.

  1. 1AOA1

    1AOA1 Active Member

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    With the way materialism is set up, events such as ghost interactions would be attributed to phenomena naturalistic conditions can provide and experience, with the explanation consisting of the behavior of elements in that phenomena, and the name given being a wrapper for the explanation, regardless of spiritual influence. Even if the Earth were picked up and flung around the universe, a fire were started, or healing were enacted, all by spiritual means, if naturalistic molecules are what is provided by the conditions of the observer, then the explanation would be the behavior of those molecules, and the name given, such as gravity, ignition, or bone restructuring, would be a wrapper for the explanation.
     
  2. blü 2

    blü 2 Well-Known Member
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    If 'spiritual influence' is a phenomenon with objective existence ─ exists outside of the subject's imagination ─ then a satisfactory demonstration of its reality can be given to anyone, scientists included.

    If 'spiritual influence' is not a phenomenon with objective existence then the only thing it can be is imaginary.
    If 'spiritual means' could start a fire then this ability could be demonstrated to the satisfaction of science.

    Why has this not happened?
     
  3. james bond

    james bond Well-Known Member

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    Nice. To thine self and belief in ghosts be true. It's too bad the show did not have some authenticity. Even if it did, I don't think he'll actually see a ghost. He may be able to feel a presence. That's the kind of experience I've had. If you see a ghost, then likely it will be a fake or there will be some logical explanation for it.

    Next, I remembered I have a friend who has two old black and white photos of children and dolls on the wall. I thought it may have a ghost, possibly double exposure, but when I looked at it again, there were no ghosts. Thus, I have never seen a photo that purportedly has ghosts except in articles.

    Science can disprove bs or theorize as best as possible what the truth is. For example, the earth is flat. However, with the supernatural it won't be able to because we can't see it. We may be able to measure it or see it via photos. Today, scientists believe in dark energy and dark matter which is invisible except for weight differences. Actually, creation scientists say it is what "astronomers infer when the actual mass of any observed celestial object is not sufficient to account for an observed gravitational effect." More hypothesis than theory.

    What creation scientists state is there is no difference between the natural and supernatural world. It is a designation made by atheist scientists. To these atheists, the natural world is where God is not. However, creation scientists believe there is no place where God is not.
     
  4. james bond

    james bond Well-Known Member

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    I think one can convince atheists of demons existing than ghosts. To me, ghosts are spirits of dead humans which is harder to believe.
     
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  5. ChristineM

    ChristineM "Be strong" I whispered to my coffee.
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    You seem to have a pretty good handle on supernatural.

    Yes I've seen photos too.

    Earth is not flat , no need for science to prove that, just look at the horizon.

    Can't see the supernatural because its all in the mind, unless of course you have evidence otherwise.

    Creation what? Sorry, just having a little chuckle. How do these guys know about the supernatural if it can't be seen, measure's, weighed, tested. Science requires dome sort of verifiable evidence, observation, measurement, not wishful thinking.
     
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  6. Hockeycowboy

    Hockeycowboy Well-Known Member
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    You know, I guess I never considered one as being more believable than the other. That’s probably because I believe they’re both from the same source. I.e., these demons masquerade as and imposter dead loved ones. I think it goes all the way back to Eden. The Serpent (which Revelation 12:9 identifies as the Devil) tells Eve, “You positively will not die.” I feel he and his fellow rebel demons (Genesis 6:1-2; Jude 6; 2 Peter 2:4; Revelation 12:7; Revelation 12:9b) persist in promoting that lie as truth, getting people to believe that dead ones are living in another realm.

    But death is really non-existence. (Ecclesiastes 9:5; Psalms 146:3-4; Genesis 3:19). The dead will come back to life, but only when the Resurrection occurs. — John 5:28-29; John 6:44; Acts of the Apostles 24:15.

    Sorry....I can get carried away with Scriptures!
     
  7. james bond

    james bond Well-Known Member

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    Obviously, I comprehend basic logic. It was hilarious that you thought one could not prove a negative. Still lol'ing.
     
  8. Randy the Atheist

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    Ghosts are nothing more than people's imaginations playing tricks on them. Ghosts weren't even known to humans prior to the invention of the soul in 490 BC by ancient philosopher Pindar who imagined a "breath" or "essence" that gave life to a body.

    Prior to the invention of the soul, humans long believed in the idea of sheol - an abode of the dead where everyone went into an everlasting sleep and thus, the concept of the dead haunting the living did not yet exist.

    But lets say that ghosts are real.

    Shouldn't then, due to the sheer number of men who have passed away, make nudie bars and the Superbowl the most haunted places on earth?
     
  9. Randy the Atheist

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    In the photo posted earlier, note how no one seems to notice the camera object and are all simply enjoying themselves. This suggests that the image is not generated from photons in the room but from something internal to the camera itself.
     
  10. james bond

    james bond Well-Known Member

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    >>After many years of interest, I have to disagree. I form my opinion much more off of the millions of uncelebrated cases by normal competent people with no vested interest. 99% are never fully explained but certainly suggest ghostly phenomena.<<

    When I say "ghosts," people and I usually mean spirits of the dead or those that were living. I think we agree on this. What about angels and demons? These entities are invisible and yet they live. Thus, they may be considered spirits or ghost-like which they are.
     
  11. james bond

    james bond Well-Known Member

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    >>You seem to have a pretty good handle on supernatural.

    Yes I've seen photos too.<<

    I believe in supernatural God, angels and demons, but not ghosts. Ghosts are spirits of deceased humans. However, I don't have an explanation for the photos so will have to file under Mystery. If the photographer intended to make money off of this, then we have something to go on. One would have to did a little deeper and find background on the photographer to state that he had other motives. Until then, he seems to be clear.

    >>Earth is not flat , no need for science to prove that, just look at the horizon.<<

    Science used the sun and moon and not the horizon to prove the earth wasn't flat. It took a while to prove that wrong since we do not know what is beyond the horizon.

    >>Can't see the supernatural because its all in the mind, unless of course you have evidence otherwise.<<

    How do you explain the latest Stanley Hotel photos?

    >>Creation what? Sorry, just having a little chuckle. How do these guys know about the supernatural if it can't be seen, measure's, weighed, tested. Science requires dome sort of verifiable evidence, observation, measurement, not wishful thinking.<<

    The discovery of the Bible and comparing what it says to what evolution says.
     
  12. ChristineM

    ChristineM "Be strong" I whispered to my coffee.
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    I don't but if you can provide evidence i am prepared to review it.

    Hence the reason i stated, no need for science. There are many ways to show the earth is not flat, sailing over the horizion is perhaps the simplest. Sailors have lnown what is over the horizon for some time.

    I don't explain them, but it is logical that the physical reason has not yet been discovered. The fact that a/ the hotel charges 20 bucks for a ghost tour and b/ they discourage investigation doesn't bode well eh? I will say we had security footage of a glowing ball rolling down a wire, across a bench then dropping out of sight, further investigations showed a dried trail of a water drip across the camera lens.

    The bible says little (nothing) about evolution. Which has repeatedly been shown via myriad different methods to be the way current life on earth exists. Never has ot been shown that hod did it with god magic. Back to the verifiable evidence, observation or measurement.
     
  13. George-ananda

    George-ananda Advaita Vedanta, Theosophy, Spiritualism
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    I agree. Spirits are entities of the super physical planes. They can be physically deceased humans. Your garden variety ghost is a spirit materializing, semi-materializing or in some other way affecting the physical plane.
     
  14. QuestioningMind

    QuestioningMind Well-Known Member

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    Well, please do PROVE that I don't have a magical dragon in my garage.
     
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  15. james bond

    james bond Well-Known Member

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    >>CM: I don't but if you can provide evidence i am prepared to review it.<<

    It's in my OP. The only way to fight ghosts of humans is to debunk one-at-a-time. However, I can't explain the photo. Thus, I have to keep an open mind and file it under Mystery.

    >>Hence the reason i stated, no need for science. There are many ways to show the earth is not flat, sailing over the horizion is perhaps the simplest. Sailors have lnown what is over the horizon for some time.<<

    It's easy when you let others do the dirty work. What if the first sailors never came back?

    There is a need for science as the first creation scientists stated. They wanted to find knowledge and truth in order to honor God's works.

    >>I don't explain them, but it is logical that the physical reason has not yet been discovered. The fact that a/ the hotel charges 20 bucks for a ghost tour and b/ they discourage investigation doesn't bode well eh? I will say we had security footage of a glowing ball rolling down a wire, across a bench then dropping out of sight, further investigations showed a dried trail of a water drip across the camera lens.<<

    Yes, the hotel charging money and getting free publicity sounds suspicious. However, there is nothing in the law that prevents them from doing so. What else makes a case against the ghosts? I would give the photographer the benefit of a doubt if he didn't have past history of doing such things. Is there some new technique to manipulating digital photos besides Photoshop type software?

    >>The bible says little (nothing) about evolution. Which has repeatedly been shown via myriad different methods to be the way current life on earth exists. Never has ot been shown that hod did it with god magic. Back to the verifiable evidence, observation or measurement.<<

    I disagree. “They exchanged the truth of God for a lie, and worshiped and served created things rather than the Creator—who is forever praised. Amen.” Romans 1:25. Isn't this evolution? The truth is all about power. The Christian Church held it before the 1800s, but the power changed during the 1800s. Today, the atheist scientists hold the money and power.

    "The fool says in his heart, 'There is no God’” Psalm 14:1; 53:1. Moreover, “For since the creation of the world God's invisible qualities—His eternal power and divine nature—have been clearly seen, being understood from what has been made, so that men are without excuse” Romans 1:20. Or “The fear of the LORD is the beginning of knowledge, but fools despise wisdom and discipline.” Proverbs 1:7.

    Fearing God isn't like fearing man. It's respect and worship for what he gave to us.

    One, we have evidence in the Bible. Second, we have evidence with the work creation scientists have done such as the dinosaurs fossils still have soft tissue. Men and apes still co-exist, but cannot provide an hybrid that lives beyond one generation. Only creation explains the complexity of the beginning of a species. Life cannot be created by humans nor through nature. Evolutionists believe in a false common ancestor. The reason being lack of common fossils or transitional fossils. Many people didn't believe in Lucy enough to visit its remains in the museum. However, Noah's Ark and the Creation Museum continues to make money.
     
  16. ChristineM

    ChristineM "Be strong" I whispered to my coffee.
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    Fight? Surely Investigate he phenomenon is a far more reliable method of getting to the root?

    But in the main the sailors did come back. Sure some didnt, the sea was as unforgiving 4000 years ago as it is now.

    I still laugh at your oxymoron. To honour anything, evidence is required otherwise what you have is faith. Faith s not science.

    Of course there is nothing in law to prevent them charging, that is not the point, the point is they are a commercial enterprise profiting from the gullible... I don't give anyone benefit of doubt, i require some sort of evidence. My work gave me access to far more powerful software than Photoshop. Creating such images is relatively easy.

    Your agreement on the validity of evolution is not required. The evidence is beyond doubt.

    Actually it's the governments who hold the money to finance the the scientists. As for power, science has litle power compared to churches. But hat is a whole new subject.

    So where has this divine power been clearly seen? There is little in nature than cannot be explained. And quotes from a bronze age book do nothing to explain nature.

    So show what your god (not one of the 4700+ other gods, excluding the 330 million Hindu gods) has done, any example that cannot be explained by science.

    The bible is evidence of a bronze age book. Some of it os historically accurate for places and noteable characters that can be validated by other sources. The rest is not evidence.

    Creation alchemists, bull. Their misunderstanding or misrepresentation of evidence is their undoing . Then you fall into the dwindling god of the gaps argument. Yes abiogenesis is well understood, but you expect science to do in decades what nature did in thousands of years. And i have visited Lucy, several times, as have many millions of other people. As for noahs ark, i wonder if the CM mock up was built using the same technology available in the bronze age or have they utilised science and technology to build a boat that was impossible to built 4000 years ago.
     
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  17. james bond

    james bond Well-Known Member

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    Ah, but getting to the root involves a fight because the creation scientists are disregarded as not being scientific. Anything to do with the supernatural is not considered while stupid topics such as a multiverse and aliens are. What I am saying is, if you're going to allow wild hypothesis like multiverses and aliens, then why not allow the supernatural?

    Well, the other ancients sailors died because they did not know where to sail. You have to understand the power of water is one of the destructive forces on our world. If one reads the Bible, then one learns that God advised Noah to release the Raven first and then the Dove to help find land. Later, Vikings used the raven on their ships to help navigate and even honored the bird on their masts. Even the dove with an olive branch in its beak is a powerful symbol today.

    Creation science is not based on faith as it is secular science. They use the scientific method. Faith is more atheist science because they won't accept the supernatural possibility.

    Dinosaurs actually lived with humans, but your science disallows this. Evolution states dinosaurs died 240 million years ago or else we couldn't have evolution.


    It's governments and corporations. Both fund atheist scientists, but won't fund creation scientists because it would be harmful to their profits and I suppose the USG doesn't want people living too far beyond their 60s because they have to pay social security benefits to seniors.

    I just did with Noah's Flood. It was a global flood and changed the face of the earth. It's been relegated to a myth when it really happened a few thousand years ago. You can't believe it happened on a young earth because you've been brainwashed into believing evolution as science.
     
  18. Subduction Zone

    Subduction Zone Veteran Member

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    There are no "creation scientists" that I know of. The reason that nutcases, and that is the most generous term that I can think of for them, are disregarded is because they do not "do science". When one is sure of one's ideas today the first step one takes is to try to get them published in a well respected peer reviewed journal. Creationists don't do that. In fact a huge percentage openly admit that they are not scientists, though most are too deluded to realize that they have done that.

    In science what is "allowed" is only what one has evidence for. And to have evidence at the very least one must have a testable which means falsifiable hypothesis.

    Tell me, what reasonable test would refute any idea of creationists if it was wrong? If you can't answer that then you have also admitted that you do not know of an creation scientists either.

    He did no such thing. Noah is a mythical being in the Bible. If you are going to grasp at ideas that were shown to be false long before the theory of evolution came along no one will take you seriously. You just in effect claimed that your version of God is mythical. Are you sure that you want to do that?

    Wrong again. There is no such thing as "creation science". If it was secular you would find it in peer reviewed journals. If it was secular it would be supported by evidence. And once again to have evidence on must have a reasonable test to show that one is wrong.

    No, they don' disallow that. You are either mistaken or lying. And no, "Evolution" does not state that dinosaurs died 240 million years ago. You really have no clue at all about what the theory of evolution says. Where did you get that crazy number from? And in two days I am going to eat roast dinosaur.
    You really have to quit using bogus terms.

    No, it has been relegated to myth because it is a myth. If there was a flood we should see evidence of it. And believers seem to know that. I started a thread on the subject and no believers are willing to even touch it. We know that the Earth is old. You really should learn why.
     
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  19. ajarntham

    ajarntham Member

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    Why so? A disproof of the existence of ghosts would not be a disproof of the existence of all supernatural beings. Plenty of people believe that God exists but that ghosts don't. (And some believe the opposite, for that matter.)
     
  20. james bond

    james bond Well-Known Member

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    All wrong. You are so badly misinformed.
     
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