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Featured Can religion exist separately from politics?

Discussion in 'Religious Debates' started by RedMoonRising, Jan 10, 2021.

?

Can we separate religion from politics?

This poll will close on Mar 21, 2021 at 6:50 PM.
  1. Yes, it is easy

  2. Yes, but it is difficult

  3. No, we cannot

Results are only viewable after voting.
  1. RedMoonRising

    RedMoonRising We Are All Us

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    It seems to me that a lot about religion concerns society as a whole:
    Organizing as a community, choosing who belongs and who does not;
    who prays when, and with whom;
    how men and women are supposed to act at home, or in public;
    how to raise a child, and what to teach it.
    Telling people what are good acts, and what is bad;
    watching them, judging them, praising them, and punishing them.

    A lot about politics also concerns society as a whole:
    What is legal, what is illegal; watching them, judging them, punishing them, hurting them.
    Who is allowed, who isn't; who is in power, and who is its victim.
    How people are to organize, choosing who belongs and who does not;
    what a community, a belief, an ideology, a religion, is allowed to do.


    Do you think they can easily be separated?

    How would you separate religion (or lack of it) from politics?
     
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  2. Twilight Hue

    Twilight Hue The gentle embrace of twilight has become my guide

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    Well there is a reason why religion and politics are called bedfellows.
     
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  3. SigurdReginson

    SigurdReginson Well-Known Member

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    It's been my experience that it can be separated. Religion can influence you and your family, while politics can influence your community as a whole. I think "Give unto caesar the things which are caesar's, and give into the lord the things which are the lord's" emphasize that point.

    In practice, people often confuse the two with each other, and they even try to force people to abide by rules according to their religion by injecting it into politics. Pro-life vs. Pro-choice comes to mind.

    If people keep religion focused on their own lives, it becomes easy, though.
     
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  4. Evangelicalhumanist

    Evangelicalhumanist "Truth" isn't a thing...
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    Religion and politics are human constructs. Along with culture, they are pretty much the most central part of nearly every human society in the history of our species. They cannot be "separated" in the way that you suggest.

    The best that we can, manage, I think, is to acknowledge that there is that which appertains to the individual, and that which appertains to whole communities. And to the furthest extent possible, we should try -- by mutual agreement -- to keep those things as separate as possible.

    Where we go wrong, most of the time, is assuming that "how I think I should live my life is how everybody else should live theirs, too." It's my responsibility to get my own hubris under control.
     
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  5. SomeRandom

    SomeRandom Still learning to be wise

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    You can. Probably. But I find it often informs or at least helps to form people’s political opinions
     
  6. sun rise

    sun rise "This is the Hour of God"
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    I voted 'difficult'. Religion in the sense of formal, organized religion can be removed.

    Ethical considerations based on religion can't. If I truly believe that human life starts at conception because of my religion, to use an obvious example, I automatically consider abortion to be murder.

    To use an example from the other side of the political fence: if I believe that we're judged based on how we treat the 'least', I automatically want to ensure, by government help when needed, that we lift up those on the bottom.
     
  7. stvdv

    stvdv Veteran Member

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    Exactly
     
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  8. Shadow Wolf

    Shadow Wolf Rival's Wife

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    Enforce the law of the Constitution that establishes America as a secular state.
     
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  9. Shadow Wolf

    Shadow Wolf Rival's Wife

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    And it makes life easier and better for everyone.
     
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  10. ideogenous_mover

    ideogenous_mover Well-Known Member

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    At certain times in history, religious texts would give your entire behavioral corpus, and political corpus. In secular society, the two things are driven apart , one is made into a public thing and the other a private thing. I think people usually always see their politics through the lens of their religion however , even if these things are taken apart from a whole.
     
  11. ideogenous_mover

    ideogenous_mover Well-Known Member

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    but then paul goes onto say that what comes from the government is the will of god
     
  12. Estro Felino

    Estro Felino Believer in free will
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    Yes.
    In Rome many politicians (some of whom atheists) call the East side of the Tiber River the inimical riverside. Why? The Vatican's there.:p

    LOL...btw...yes, I think politics and religions are separated in many countries.
    One thing is religious morals...other thing is the laws of a state.
    One example: abortion. Not excused by most religions, but it is a right guaranteed by the State.
     
  13. Israel Khan

    Israel Khan Well-Known Member

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    Historically religion and politics were inseparable. Even the storyline behind the hierarchy of deities were a reflection of the political hierarchy in each society. It could be said that religion in general is a reflection of those who believe it, which is why many religions have different sub groups/denominations.

    Religion is a worldview, and worldviews cannot be separated from anything else in a persons life. The best thing to do would be to change individuals, who will then change the religion, which has been done many times.
     
  14. Conscious thoughts

    Conscious thoughts Veteran Member

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    With in a religious teaching there is a form of politics, but it is not based on party like it is done in a country politics.

    Since religion comes with it's one ser of rules for how one should live a morally good life, outside of the religious community kind of politics like EU or republicans/democratic party is no need in a religious community because one already havectheir own rules and regulations.

    And before others pulling the sharia law card, i know about the muslims who use sharia law wrong toward others.
     
  15. Tony Bristow-Stagg

    Tony Bristow-Stagg Veteran Member
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    In the end, the best laws are God's Laws.

    As such, government's should embrace God's Laws, when making laws for the Nations, that is if they want to find a healthy balance in affairs. God has left the worldly rule to humanity.

    Regards Tony
     
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  16. Rival

    Rival Veteran Member
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    Yes. Politics has nothing to do with 99% of things in religion. It has no effect on how I pray, what I pray, to whom pray, when I pray, what I eat, what I wear (unless you're in bonkers France), where I worship, which holidays I celebrate....

    Religion in politics strikes this Brit as weird. Tony Blair had to hide his Catholicism while he was PM.
     
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  17. lukethethird

    lukethethird Well-Known Member

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    Can religion exist separately from politics?
    Apparently, not in the U.S.
     
  18. Deeje

    Deeje Avid Bible Student
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    Religion and politics are an unhappy union.....both divide loyalties of the other.
    e.g. When a nation goes to war, and the "enemy" on the "other side" of the political divide is also a Christian, loyalty to Christ is pitted against loyalty to one's country. Jesus taught us to "love your enemies and pray for those who persecute you". (Matthew 5:43-44)

    Jesus set the example by not getting involved in the political affairs of the Roman world of his day. He barely mentioned them in his preaching, but instead admonished his disciples to be "no part of the world"...staying right out of politics altogether.

    Taking a neutral position means you don't take sides, so there is no division between friends and family along political lines, as we see in the world right now. Civil wars are fought along those lines of demarcation, dividing families to the point of war....even killing their own flesh and blood over political differences. But a Christian cannot do that. So better to remain neutral, than to start a war in your family, with your neighbors, or even in your own country....Its sooooo not worth it as recent events show us.
     
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  19. adrian009

    adrian009 Veteran Member
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    My immediate response was we can not seperate the two. Then I recalled the separation of state and religion which has been a key principle of many Western governments for the last few centuries and decided it may not be so difficult after all. In Islam prayer and fasting are considered the moon and sun of the heaven of religion. They are facets of many religions and for me a very personal aspect of my relationship with God, that exists independently from whatever political party is in power.

    On the other hand politics can necessitate us to make moral choices, especially when politics reaches a low ebb as they have in the USA.
     
  20. Estro Felino

    Estro Felino Believer in free will
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    It is a very important point of view. The separation between Church (or churches) and State has enabled us to respect all religions. We have created a form of secularism that gives anyone absolute freedom of self-determination, politically, religiously, etc...
    But the passage you quoted (and I really, really thank you for bringing it up) shows that it is Biblical values that predisposed our Western Civilization to be tolerant towards the neighbor, the foreigner and the different.
    And religiously speaking, towards atheists or agnostics too.
    So therefore, it is true that at least in Europe we have certain Biblical values as cultural foundation of the philosophical pillars that inspired our juridical tradition.
     
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