nutshell
Well-Known Member
Yes I do. But that doesn't affect its value.
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Can religion be logical?
- Thread starter Dream Angel
- Start date
Yes I do. But that doesn't affect its value.
HopefulNikki
Active Member
Does logic and reasoning have value?
s2a
Heretic and part-time (skinny) Santa impersonator
I think that faith-based beliefs can be rationalized as being products of logic.
I would only submit that "believing" something to be "so", don't make it "so" (unless you "believe" that it can/does).
Is prayer (in acting to beseech a chosen deity to affect some personal/outined divine intervention) "logical"? If so, then how does prayer absolve/escape any critical evaluations/review? If we were to actually track and document the success/failure rates of evidenced/granted entreaties/prayers of a god
HopefulNikki
Active Member
And which one of you is now the guy with the fastest serve in tennis?haha nikki, if you only grew up playin tennis w/ roddick your "andy roddickism" would be shattered... i used to play w/ the guy in boys 18s and he was the definition of a cry baby.
ARism is fully intact.
HopefulNikki
Active Member
Dream Angel
Well-Known Member
Hey, of course religion can be logical. I like to call it "The Church of Jesus Christ of Latter Day Saints."
I think that God's church has to be based on truth and logic. It would make no sense to me that God made a confusing and contradictory church although many people throughout the centuries have turned religion into such a thing.
That's why God had to come clear everything up again.
IMHO of course.
Agreed! Thanks Comprehend!
s2a
Heretic and part-time (skinny) Santa impersonator
Is this supposed to convey some deeper meaning or allusion?
I this supposed to be some trick, but trite, question?
Of course logic and reasoning help us all to distinguish between that which remains worthless, and that which is valued as "priceless"?
If we deny our species access to either logic or reason in formulating/delivering compelling d clarations of satisfying
Comprehend
Res Ipsa Loquitur
in that case, nothing can be logical because everything is based on faith. see: Lectures on Faith.
doppelganger
Through the Looking Glass
haha nikki, if you only grew up playin tennis w/ roddick your "andy roddickism" would be shattered
A prophet is always without honor in his hometown.
Katzpur
Not your average Mormon
When I said it can be logical, I think that some doctrines or teachings can be more logical than others. Take, for instance, these two biblical teachings:
1. A belief in Jesus Christ is essential for salvation. No man can come to the Father except through Christ.
2. God is a God of love and mercy who is not a respecter of persons.
To me, the idea that God would create literally billions of human beings who had no conceivable opportunity to accept the gospel of Jesus Christ and then send them to Hell for eternity is completely illogical. It is not in line with how a God of love would behave. The idea that God will simply choose to ignore His own rules and welcome these souls into Heaven because He is a God of love is equally illogical. But, the idea that there is a Spirit World where, after death, those who did not have the opportunity to hear the gospel can both hear and accept it -- and be the recipient of the saving ordinances done on their behalf by proxy -- is logical. It doesn't require us to reject the validity of either of my two premises.
That's all I meant in saying that religion can be logical.
Aqualung
Tasty
Logic ITSELF is based on faith. So religion based on logic is still based on faith.
What people generall call "faith" is really just logically underdeveloped conclusions, but even the most logically developed conclusion has its basis in faith.
gmelrod
Resident Heritic
I think there is some misunderstanding of the meaning of logic on this thread. Logic is a process that using a given set of axioms can prove or disprove pertinate statements. Logic can only deal with the facts it is given. It cannot reason from an effect to a cause. It does not have to refer to anything real. Mathematics is the ultimate expression of logic. Yet its statemetns are entirely self contained. You do not have to actualy have a given number of an object to solve a math problem. You can use logic on questions of religion. But you are still working from a givent set of axioms at the outset. If they are false everything you derived through logic is false. Even though it is logical. Just because somthing is logical does not mean it is true. Remembe in math we use numbers that cannot and not not exist (squate root of negative 2 anyone).
Aqualung
Tasty
Exactly. And at some point, going backwards from fact to fact, you must simply accept a fact, unproven (that is to say - on faith), from which to work. I can logically prove that I am really sweaty right now, but only if I take on faith that I actually did just get back from work. Or, I could prove that I just got back from work if I just accept that I went to work in the morning. Etc. It is simply impossible to prove every single statement. You must take something on faith before logic can even set in. Faith preceeds logic in other words.
That's why math is so fun. It's philosophy at its best.
Yes, absolutely so. The Buddha clearly emphasized logic and reasoning in the following teaching of his....
Do not believe in anything simply because you have heard it. Do not believe in anything simply because it is spoken and rumored by many. Do not believe in anything simply because it is found written in your religious books. Do not believe in anything merely on the authority of your teachers and elders. Do not believe in traditions because they have been handed down for many generations. But after observation and analysis, when you find that anything agrees with reason and is conducive to the good and benefit of one and all, then accept it and live up to it.
Hinduism also emphasizes logic and reasoning and urges one to reject even those from the divine if it is irrational, and this can be seen in the sacred scripture of the hindus, the YOGA VASISHTA.
Here is a link on the importance of reason and logic in religion , and the need to eradicate superstitions through reason, according to our prophet Vivekananda, who had strongly influenced Mahatma Gandhi and Aurobindo and many others.....
http://www.religiousforums.com/forum/showthread.php?t=50064
gmelrod
Resident Heritic
Yes you get it. At some point a method other than logic (deductive reasoning) must be used. This can be science (inductive reasoning) or revelation or even authority. But logic cannot give us new general principles (like God's existence) it can only apply general principles to specific examples.
