Can religion be logical?

[Dream Angel]

Ok, after posting on another thread "Non-Trinitarians" the following:-

3)I do not believe the trinity as I dont think it is logical

I had the following response from angellous:-

IMHO, that's not a good reason to reject it. Church doctrine is not the product of logic, otherwise every logical person would accept it, and it would not be a faith but a pragmatic, verifyable system.

It brought an interesting topic up (which could not be debated there....) Can religion be logical? can you "choose" a religion and find the truth based on logic? I think it can. To me, If I cant find logic, I dont think its true!

What are you thoughts?

 

[Terrywoodenpic]

I am a half way house.

it is quite logical for me to be a Christian.
I believe in God
I believe in Jesus and his Teachings.

It is also quite Logical for me to reject some Church teachings and parts of the Bible.
If they do not make common sense or are unreasonable or unlikely to be true,
I suspend judgement on them, until I have worked out what I really think.

I do not feel guilty in any way in doing this, because this is what groups of people have done, all along, in the forming of the various denominations; what I am doing is to do the same on a personal level.
What I do not do, is stuff it down others throats and say believe or be Dammed.

 

[Rolling_Stone]

Of course religion can can be logical, but not every religionists is. The same is true for atheism.

As for the Trinity, you have to look no further than yourself to see another kind of trinity: personality, emotion and intellect. This is just an example. It can be expressed in any number of ways. Totality, intent, and mind is another. First Cause (will), Logos (wisdom), and Mind is yet another. Each one of the three in the examples given are different, but none exist apart from the other two. One conceptual form may be more useful than another or the particular form being used may be context-dependent, but hard to show that they are not logical.

The employment of a Trinity concept is not unique to Christianity: Hindus have Siva, Vishnu and Brahma and well as Being, Bliss and Intelligence.

 

[Sonic247]

Ice, water and steam

 

[Willamena]

I think it can be logical if the terms are understood, but that's not always the case.

 

[Guitar's Cry]

I believe it can be. I even believe that a belief in God or the Soul can be logically reasoned out. The logic may be questioned or not accepted, but it makes it no less logically.

 

[Sonic247]

Matter as far as we understand cannot be created or destroyed. So logically either matter is eternal or created by something that is stronger the naturaul laws. But matter doesn't have life. We can't prove scientifically exactly what life is but it must either have a begginning or be eternal, and matter cannot create life (unless you believe in spontaneous generation)so where is it from?

 

[Willamena]

Matter as far as we understand cannot be created or destroyed. So logically either matter is eternal or created by something that is stronger the naturaul laws. But matter doesn't have life. We can't prove scientifically exactly what life is but it must either have a begginning or be eternal, and matter cannot create life (unless you believe in spontaneous generation)so where is it from?

Is "eternal" a part of time or apart from time?
What strength does a "natural law" have?
What is "life" that matter does not have it (i.e. don't our bodies have life?)

 

[lunamoth]

I think there are too many unknowns and variables for religion to be logical, the biggest unknown being, in theistic religions, an undefinable God.

Reasonable, yes, it's possible. Rational? I think theology can be just as rational as Philosophy, but 'rational' is not a word I'd usually associate with a religion, which is largely behavioral.

Can a religion be compassionate? Now there's an interesting question.

 

[Sonic247]

Is "eternal" a part of time or apart from time? beats me
What strength does a "natural law" have? natural strength?
What is "life" that matter does not have it (i.e. don't our bodies have life? Not by themselves the spirit gives life. I don't know exatly what life is but you can tell that a styraphome cup doesn't have life but a fish does.

 

[Terrywoodenpic]

Is "eternal" a part of time or apart from time?

can be either; From our point of view it is time with out beginning or end, but it is time.
God does not exist in time so eternal is simply his state.

What strength does a "natural law" have?

"Natural laws" are work in progress and are neither natural nor laws. most of them change with knowledge.

What is "life" that matter does not have it (i.e. don't our bodies have life?)

"Matter" may well have life: that we do not know of any "matter" that is "alive" does not mean it could not be.
Up to now we divide things into the "living" and "inert matter". we may be wrong.

 

[Willamena]

Is "eternal" a part of time or apart from time? beats me
What strength does a "natural law" have? natural strength?
What is "life" that matter does not have it (i.e. don't our bodies have life? Not by themselves the spirit gives life. I don't know exatly what life is but you can tell that a styraphome cup doesn't have life but a fish does.

A suitable example, thanks: it can be logical if the terms are understood. If they are not, then logic falls apart.

 

[lew0049]

As far as the Trinity in concerned - in many way I don't think we are supposed too or are capable of understanding it. But in the same context, how is it possible for us to understand how the creator was able to create the universe? It isn't. Just b/c we cannot understand something does not mean that it is illogical.
I was an atheist, then agnostic and now a Christian because things do make sense to me. However, personally I am sure that in no way does God like "religions" because look at what they have done to the Earth.

When I was trying to find answers about the "faith" concept, logic and truth behind it; it became obvious to me that there has to be atleast ONE religion of sorts that is the truth. Why? Because logically, the creator would want to give the creation some form of evidence or signs. Why else would he create the universe? It sucks though because I really don't believe that many people truly seek. Although Christianity can in no way be 100% proven like so many want, this does not mean to me that it is not the truth. To be honest, when I was looking at many of the, lets say, SE Asian religions, I truly did not believe that they were logical b/c they neglected many of the fundamental questions of mankind. Does a religion like Hinduism for example have many divine aspects to it? Definitely. But so many religions ask someone to take a blind leap of faith. However, I truly don't believe that christianity or being a follower of Jesus requires a "blind" leap of faith. I'm sure many will argue against this, but it seems to me that so many of these people neglect their intelligence when looking at the massive amount of evidence affirming the Bible and Jesus - but use their intelligence when trying to disprove the Bible.

 

[Comprehend]

Ok, after posting on another thread "Non-Trinitarians" the following:-



I had the following response from angellous:-



It brought an interesting topic up (which could not be debated there....) Can religion be logical? can you "choose" a religion and find the truth based on logic? I think it can. To me, If I cant find logic, I dont think its true!

What are you thoughts?

Hey, of course religion can be logical. I like to call it "The Church of Jesus Christ of Latter Day Saints."

I think that God's church has to be based on truth and logic. It would make no sense to me that God made a confusing and contradictory church although many people throughout the centuries have turned religion into such a thing.

That's why God had to come clear everything up again.


IMHO of course.

 

[Katzpur]

It brought an interesting topic up (which could not be debated there....) Can religion be logical? can you "choose" a religion and find the truth based on logic? I think it can. To me, If I cant find logic, I dont think its true!

What are you thoughts?

Hi, Laura! Of course religion can be logical, but what I may see as logical, someone else might see as totally illogical. For instance, on another thread, HopefulNikki says that she believes we need to rely on more than just a gut feel for what is "true," and that we need to use reason in making a choice when it comes to religion. This is essentially what you're saying. She is not interested in Mormonism, presumably because she does not see the logic behind it. You are interested in Mormonism because you do.

From my own standpoint, I think both faith and reason are important. When I think of Joseph Smith's First Vision (where the Father and the Son appeared to him), it's really quite easy for me to understand why such an event would be beyond the ability of some people to accept as true. It's also easy for me to understand why the Virgin Birth of Jesus Christ would be beyond the ability of some people to accept as true. Someone who accepts either or both of these things as true does so purely out of faith. Logic really doesn't play a huge part in why we believe these things. On the other hand, there are certain doctrines, certain theological concepts, wherein logic does seem to come into play. It is because so many LDS doctrines (for example, our understanding of the nature of God, and our rejection of the Trinity) do seem logical to me that I believe in them. I can accept the fact that there are some things I simply must accept on faith, while reason is important when it comes to other things.

 

[Bronze]

my thoughts?...

i think that dogma is pretty bad, but uneducated logic can be equally bad.

(so make sure its educated. Find me a logical, educated reason to believe in god though)

 

[Aqualung]

It's as logical as everything else. Nothing is logical to begin with. You must necessarily accept some single statement as true, without proof (or without proof of your proof, &c) upon which to build something logically. Just like with everything else, this first premise must be taken on faith. In religion, that premis is "God exists", or perhaps "God cares" is a more appropriate one to start religion. Upon this, my religion is logical to the core. There is nothing illogical about it. But, just like every other single thing anybody believes or "knows", religion starts with a premise taken on faith alone.

 

[HopefulNikki]

Hi, Laura! Of course religion can be logical, but what I may see as logical, someone else might see as totally illogical. For instance, on another thread, HopefulNikki says that she believes we need to rely on more than just a gut feel for what is "true," and that we need to use reason in making a choice when it comes to religion. This is essentially what you're saying. She is not interested in Mormonism, presumably because she does not see the logic behind it. You are interested in Mormonism because you do.

Hey! No talking about me behind my back!

From my own standpoint, I think both faith and reason are important. When I think of Joseph Smith's First Vision (where the Father and the Son appeared to him), it's really quite easy for me to understand why such an event would be beyond the ability of some people to accept as true. It's also easy for me to understand why the Virgin Birth of Jesus Christ would be beyond the ability of some people to accept as true. Someone who accepts either or both of these things as true does so purely out of faith. Logic really doesn't play a huge part in why we believe these things. On the other hand, there are certain doctrines, certain theological concepts, wherein logic does seem to come into play. It is because so many LDS doctrines (for example, our understanding of the nature of God, and our rejection of the Trinity) do seem logical to me that I believe in them. I can accept the fact that there are some things I simply must accept on faith, while reason is important when it comes to other things

I agree in principle and I know what you're saying. Both go hand in hand, to an extent either way.

 

[nutshell]

I'll disagree with my Mormon brothers and sisters and say NO - religion cannot be logical because it is based on faith. I cannot reconcile the two. Does that make a religion any more or less true? Nope.

 

[HopefulNikki]

I'll disagree with my Mormon brothers and sisters and say NO - religion cannot be logical because it is based on faith. I cannot reconcile the two. Does that make a religion any more or less true? Nope.

So you believe that faith is illogical?