Can outsiders learn from Sufism?

[Mr Cheese]

And yes the term Sufism is a western one....its old, but its not originally muslim....
I am 99.9% sure that is what I have read....

having looked into this online, it appears I was wrong....

 

[Alulu]

You are not wrong. I can read (and speak dialect) Arabic and Sufism is nowhere written in any Arabic book about Islam. It is called tasawwuf in Arabic. And someone who reached the "highest" stage in this path is called a Sufi. Like a Sufi Sheikh for example. You will read about tasawwuf (as an valid Islamic science) in all classical Sunni books. The four Imam's, on which the four jurisprudential law schools are based, discussed it and saw it as an science like Islamic jurisprudence. The difference being that jurisprudence (fiqh) is about the "outside", and sufism (tasawwuf) about "inside", or as it is called as well in Arabic: tazkiyyat an-nafs (purifying the soul/yourself). This is the general science, there has however been criticism about practices Sufi's perform. But the science is not condemned. Even Sufi's themselves disagree between certain practices. And just as Kabbalah developed into a "universal philosophy" next to the Jewish one, Sufism also did. You could argue that there are two types of 'Sufisms' now, one within the Islamic faith and one outside it. Although many more can be said about this and it depends what your personal perspective is of course.

 

[Mr Cheese]

You are not wrong. I can read (and speak dialect) Arabic and Sufism is nowhere written in any Arabic book about Islam. It is called tasawwuf in Arabic. And someone who reached the "highest" stage in this path is called a Sufi. Like a Sufi Sheikh for example. You will read about tasawwuf (as an valid Islamic science) in all classical Sunni books. The four Imam's, on which the four jurisprudential law schools are based, discussed it and saw it as an science like Islamic jurisprudence. The difference being that jurisprudence (fiqh) is about the "outside", and sufism (tasawwuf) about "inside", or as it is called as well in Arabic: tazkiyyat an-nafs (purifying the soul/yourself). This is the general science, there has however been criticism about practices Sufi's perform. But the science is not condemned. Even Sufi's themselves disagree between certain practices. And just as Kabbalah developed into a "universal philosophy" next to the Jewish one, Sufism also did. You could argue that there are two types of 'Sufisms' now, one within the Islamic faith and one outside it. Although many more can be said about this and it depends what your personal perspective is of course.

thank you!

 

[ruhnafsoul]

there shouldn't be many tasawwuf teachings around... there should be only one true tasawwuf teachings in this world.. as there is only one ISLAM.. and only one ALLAH the Almighty SWT

 

[Sufi]

Are there things that non-Muslims can learn from Sufism?
If so what are they?

The Islamic Science of Tasawwuf (Sufism)

Sufism is based on the Quran and the Sunnah

Shaykh ul-Islam Zakariyya Ansari has said:

"Sufism teaches one to purify one`s self, improve one`s morals, and build up one`s inner and outer life in order to attain perpetual bliss. Is subject matter is the purification of the soul and its end or aim is the attainment of eternal felicity and blessedness."


​

 

[zenzero]

Friend stephenw,

The word *muslim* means even as per wikipedia: "one who submits (to God)" and all those who submits are followers of islam; however MINDS being what they are have built that wedge in between that has placed other meanings in between the actual meaning and that is that the *GOD* should be labelled as *allah* or else if you label it Brahman or Tao etc. you are not a muslim.
Is there any solution to eradicating that mind which keeps tricking the people at all times till date?

Love & rgds

 

[Requia]

www.mihr.com


.

And what can be taken away by lazy Americans that only speak English?

 

[Sufi]

And what can be taken away by lazy Americans that only speak English?

If you want to learn more about Tasawwuf(Sufism) i suggest you take a look at this website!

http://www.tasawwuf.org/basics/what_tasawwuf.htm
http://www.tasawwuf.org/

 

[autonomous1one1]

Are there things that non-Muslims can learn from Sufism?
If so what are they?

Nice thread idea, Stephen. After reading through it one sees that it got a little astray here and there but there is still much that can be gleaned about Sufism. Some of the major areas that attracts one to Sufism are mentioned. One must appreciate the wisdom of those below in this regard. :clap

Other than great depths of wisdom on many topics from the individuals such as Rumi with universal applicability, some of the elements that captured attention many years ago are: the mystic element; purification of the self and heart; love of God and growing closeness to the point of 'God-consciousness' and Fanaa; action in the world consistent with Fanaa; similarities with other religions in non-duality (as A-ManESL posted); the beauty of poetry; and, of course, the great emphasis and wisdom on love for all.

Concerning this last - love- the video posted by Katiafish is a good example. Its subject is 'What is Real Love: A Sufi Perspective' by Shaykh Hisham Kabbani. It is particularly a good starting point before going through this thread because Kabbani begins with going beyond unconditional tolerance to acceptance and then on to exhausting oneself for others.

The underlying theme of Sufism is that an individual can partially merge himself with God during his life on earth. The way is to first destroy the difference or the duality that exists between God and him by self destruction of the self or the ego. This is known as fanaa. .....

After fanaa is achieved, the individual is resurrected in the mould of God (this is called baqaa). ....the underlying message and aim of the quest for the love of God is true for all humanity.

In my opinion if you are a non-Muslim and want to take some positive thing from Sufism the most important ideas are love for fellow human beings (which reflects your love of God) and living your life in such a way where all your actions are anti-hedonistic. This automatically starts you on the path of fanaa.

Friend stephenw,
Friend A-ManESL has brought out the true spirit of Sufism and have to state that islam does not follow RUMI's language.
Dancing and singing in Sufism is a form of Dynamic Meditation which abhorred by islam.
Love & rgds

...To zenzero: I noticed that you are interested in Sufism from the non-dualistic point of view. The concept was properly developed by Ibn Arabi in Islam (not by Rumi). You will find similar views in non-dualistic Vedanta Hinduism (developed by Adi Shankara) and in Christian mysticism (developed by Meister Eckhart). In fact it is a theory of mine that on the surface level the only valid link between theistic religions lies in the non-dualistic interpretations of God. Other links are not concrete on close scrutiny at this level. ...

Friends,
Here is what Djamila has stated in another thread on sufism:

I love Rumi, I absolutely adore him. I went to Konya, in Turkey, specifically to see what he saw and experience the city he experienced.

In Ode 314, the message I get is substance over ritual. To me, he is saying you can be the perfect Muslim, by the books of faith and culture, and still completely miss the point of what Islam is. He is saying... allow yourself to be overwhelmed by what God has given us, and be a Muslim not by simply blindly going through the rituals, but by experiencing what it all means.

In Remember me my impression is that he is speaking as someone who has already died, and knows God, and is explaining to the others what to expect. It's like... he's reached enlightenment and now he's trying to find the words to pass this experience from something that cannot really be described down into the human realm. It's like a four-year-olds drawing of their mother, and he's so excited but you just can't possibly understand what he has experienced just through his words, because there are no tools to make it accurate.

Frubals to her post.
Love & rgds

YouTube - Broadcast Yourself. please have patience and watch this video........

believing in God requires having faith in unseen. therefor mystism is a part of religion, it is Spirit of religion so to speak. .

The Islamic Science of Tasawwuf (Sufism)

Sufism is based on the Quran and the Sunnah

Shaykh ul-Islam Zakariyya Ansari has said:

"Sufism teaches one to purify one`s self, improve one`s morals, and build up one`s inner and outer life in order to attain perpetual bliss. Is subject matter is the purification of the soul and its end or aim is the attainment of eternal felicity and blessedness."​

If you want to learn more about Tasawwuf(Sufism) i suggest you take a look at this website!
http://www.tasawwuf.org/basics/what_tasawwuf.htm
http://www.tasawwuf.org/

 

[Rafique]

For the sake of argument, consider for a moment two possibilities: 1) Sufis are Muslims, 2) Sufis are not Muslims.

If Sufis are Muslims, then it is not the case that all Muslim sects (Sufi, Sunni) agree on which sources are authentic and which are not (just as all humans on Earth do not agree--Christians, Muslims, Hindus, atheists) and what counts as innovation and what does not, and whether innovation is good or bad. (Of course Zoroastrians think Judaism was an innovation which grew out of paganism, Jews think Christianity was an innovation with pagan influences, both Christians and Jews think Islam is an innovation with pagan influences, and from a historical perspective--they're all innovations with pagan influences!) In this case, you cannot strictly speak about "we Muslims" any more than you can speak about "we Egyptians". You can only speak for yourself, what you believe, what like-minded people believe, and why you believe it. Generalizations about "we Muslims" can only be that--generalizations.

On the other hand, if Sufis are not Muslims, then why does it matter what Muslims believe or practice, when we are talking about non-Muslims? The issue is irrelevant.

Also one other point: of course you believe you take your religion from its authentic sources. Sufis, I imagine, would say they take their religion from its authentic sources. The disagreement is not that you support authentic sources and they support 'inauthentic' ones. The disagreement is which sources are 'authentic', how is that determined, how are they interpreted, etc.

Of all the religious people in the world, Protestant Christians, Sufis, Jews, Hindus, Sunnis, Shiites, Catholics, Taoists, Buddhists, etc. etc....and then all the minor disagreements/disputes within those religions....I don't think a single person believes their own scriptures are 'inauthentic' or otherwise illegitimate.

True. p { margin-bottom: 0.21cm; } The Jews say, 'The Christians stand not on anything'; the Christians say, 'The Jews stand not on anything'; yet they recite the Book. So too the ignorant say the like of them..Quran-2:113

 

[zenzero]

Friend stephenw,

Can outsiders learn from Sufism?

The meaning of the word sufi is

a member of an Islamic religious group whose aim is to communicate directly with God and to understand spiritual mysteries

wheras wiki states:

According to Idries Shah, the Sufi philosophy is universal in nature, its roots predating the rise of Islam and the other modern-day religions, save for perhaps Hinduism and its offshoots, Buddhism and Jainism; likewise, some Muslims consider Sufism outside the sphere of Islam.

The debate which are matters of the mind will continues but what is certain [personal understanding] is that the universal whole of which we are a part has to be harmonized with as to live harmoniously is to live in the garden of eden in zannat in heaven, swarg etc. etc. There are those who may be of the idea that heaven and hell are places when one goes after death. Maybe so but if can find it here then why not? who has seen death forget thereafter.
Sufism so is being harmonious which is possible by following the laws of existence and being one with IT.

Love & rgds