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Featured Can Non-Abrahamics and Abrahamics be from same God?

Discussion in 'Religious Debates' started by InvestigateTruth, Mar 4, 2019.

  1. Desert Snake

    Desert Snake ️️️️️️️️️️

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    Hmm no, different type of thing.
     
  2. loverofhumanity

    loverofhumanity Well-Known Member
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    Then what type of shaman?
     
  3. Desert Snake

    Desert Snake ️️️️️️️️️️

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    Mystical and esoteric, not 'religious'
     
  4. Muffled

    Muffled Jesus in me

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    If meditation only brings thoughts from ones self that would seem like very limited illumination to me. Getting information from the creator of the universe who knows everything seems like a better source to me.
     
  5. Muffled

    Muffled Jesus in me

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    I believe Jesus said I am the truth and the Bible says only God is good.
     
  6. Muffled

    Muffled Jesus in me

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    I know the Baha'is are somewhat different but doesn't the origen qualify as Abrahamic, even if God is not its direct source..
     
  7. sayak83

    sayak83 Well-Known Member
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    The what?
     
  8. Jainarayan

    Jainarayan ॐ नमो भगवते वासुदेवाय
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    Who said the thoughts come from oneself?

    He hasn't done a very good job of imparting that knowledge. :shrug:
     
  9. ChristineM

    ChristineM "Be strong" I whispered to my coffee.
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    I believe otherwise.

    For a start there is no evidence jesus live as described in the bible and there is no evidence for gods whatsoever. You are free to believe whatever you want. Belief is not truth
     
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  10. CG Didymus

    CG Didymus Well-Known Member

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    Revelation13 The dragon stood on the shore of the sea. And I saw a beast coming out of the sea. It had ten horns and seven heads, with ten crowns on its horns, and on each head a blasphemous name.2 The beast I saw resembled a leopard, but had feet like those of a bear and a mouth like that of a lion. The dragon gave the beast his power and his throne and great authority. 3 One of the heads of the beast seemed to have had a fatal wound, but the fatal wound had been healed. The whole world was filled with wonder and followed the beast. 4 People worshiped the dragon because he had given authority to the beast, and they also worshiped the beast and asked, “Who is like the beast? Who can wage war against it?”

    5 The beast was given a mouth to utter proud words and blasphemies and to exercise its authority for forty-two months. 6 It opened its mouth to blaspheme God, and to slander his name and his dwelling place and those who live in heaven. 7 It was given power to wage war against God’s holy people and to conquer them. And it was given authority over every tribe, people, language and nation. 8 All inhabitants of the earth will worship the beast—all whose names have not been written in the Lamb’s book of life, the Lamb
    who was slain from the creation of the world.
    1260 days, 31/2 days and forty two months are all made to mean 1260 years by Baha'is. So here are the verses that have a beast that has authority for forty two months. First, who is the dragon that gave the beast his power and throne? Then, who is the beast? And, when did his authority first begin? When did all the people, except for those that were with the "Lamb", worship this beast? Then, who is the Lamb that was slain again? One Baha'i thinks it is The Bab. Do you agree or think it is referring to someone else? Thanks Tony
     
  11. CG Didymus

    CG Didymus Well-Known Member

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    Well Tony, it don't look like you're interested in answering, so I'll just add a few things to my post that relate to the question. In Revelation chapter 11 the nations will "tread" under foot the holy city for 42 months. Very next verse has the "two witnesses" prophesying for 1260 days. Then, after they finish their testimony, a beast comes and kills them. Their bodies lie in the street for 31/2 days. After that they come back to life. And that is the end of the "Second Woe". Which Baha'is say is the Bab. The "First Woe", which Baha'is say is Muhammad had ended two chapters earlier.

    Next chapter, a woman is about to give birth but a dragon is waiting to devour the child. She gives birth and flees to the wilderness for 1260 days. Then we get to chapter 13. So it is after all the rest of this stuff happens, then that's when this other beast comes on the scene and has power for 42 months. Then, another beast arises and makes everyone worship the first beast. So since the first beast had power for 42 months, this should be after that time had elapsed, right?

    Now this beast is the one that has 666 associated with it. But, Baha'is make the number 666 the date of the start of the Umayyad dynasty in 661AD and get to 666 by adding five years to it because Jesus wasn't born in year zero, but approximately a few years before that. So Baha'is say 5 is a good number, because it gets them to 666.

    So show me the math again? And how you don't manipulate the number to get everything to revert back to 621AD so you can get 1260 days, 31/2 days and 42 months to all get you to 1844?
     
  12. 2ndpillar

    2ndpillar Well-Known Member

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    There is one creator, but many gods (Genesis 6:2). An example being that Persia and Greece each have their own "prince" (Daniel 10:13 & 20).
     
  13. 2ndpillar

    2ndpillar Well-Known Member

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    There are other references to 42 months in the bible, but with respect to the 5th head of the 7 headed beast referred to in Revelation 13:3-8, that would be Julius Caesar who ruled for 42 actual months as dictator of Rome, and who was :"slain", and "healed" as Augustus Caesar, who was now a god per the Roman Senate. The "dragon" who gives his "authority" to the "beast" is the devil per Revelation 20:2, represented by Caesar's sun god. The people who didn't worship the beast and his son god, were those written in the book of life of the Lamb, which had been written from "the foundation of the world" (Revelation 13:8). The "Lamb" is not "slain" again, it was the beast who was slain. The Baha'is seem to become confused when they rewrite what was written.
     
  14. CG Didymus

    CG Didymus Well-Known Member

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    They're not confused. They seriously believe it. The infallible Abdul Baha is the source of some of those beliefs. The two witnesses are Muhammad and Ali. The three Woes are Muhammad, The Bab and Baha'u'llah. And the dragon and beasts are the Umayyads and Abbasids dynasties of Islam. It's confusing to me how they can believe that. And, apparently they have no intention to clarify how all those verses, with all the different amounts of time, that are all shown to equal 1260 years, all start at the same time, 621AD, and all end at the same time, 1844. Yet, they don't have anything to do with 621AD when the Hegira and Islam officially started. If one can be shown to be 621AD, then the other events all happened after.

    Oh, and one more thing, one Baha'i has said that the Lamb that was slain is not Jesus, because Jesus was crucified, not slain. Therefore, the Lamb that was slain is a reference to The Bab, who was shot by a firing squad.
     
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  15. Vinayaka

    Vinayaka devotee
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    It's simple. When you can't explain something, withdraw from the discussion. Try to change the topic, divert, etc. first, and finally, withdraw. I'm particularly glad not to be in this one, as i am a total idiot on all things biblical.
     
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  16. Muffled

    Muffled Jesus in me

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    I believe that was a generality on my part. I do recognize that it is possible to hear from God through meditation. I simply believe the majority of the time a person hears from Himself. There is also a third possibility and that is that a person can hear from an untoward or misinformed spirit or a demon. Joseph Smith heard from a demon and thought it was an angel.

    I believe for those who are able to hear Him he imparts the knowledge that the person needs.
     
  17. Muffled

    Muffled Jesus in me

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    I believe you can't prove anything with a lack of evidence. I have all the evidence I need.
     
  18. Muffled

    Muffled Jesus in me

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    I believe the Ba'hais emerged from the Islamic community which is Abrahamic.
     
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  19. Jainarayan

    Jainarayan ॐ नमो भगवते वासुदेवाय
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    There's never been any evidence or occurrences of demons or ill-intentioned spirits in Hinduism plaguing humans. Hinduism doesn't believe in them. If they do exist, our disbelief in them probably takes away any power they might have. I believe that something only has the power we give it. However, there are classes of beings that give the gods a hard time and often go to war with them. Ultimately the gods have always been victorious.
     
  20. ChristineM

    ChristineM "Be strong" I whispered to my coffee.
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    What lack of evidence?
    E=MC2
    Proof by exhaution
    Childhood leukemia
    The mosquito
    The futility of prayer
    I could go on to provid around 60 other evidences for lack of god, gods or their described attributes.

    Whether you accept those evidences us the question, not whether they exist
     
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